Medford bus driver fired over confederate flag

[santeesioux]

Smh Southern Oregon, really don't understand the fascination with the confederates and rednecks down here. We live in OREGON, not the south.

A Medford school bus driver fired after he refused to remove a Confederate battle flag flying from his pickup truck has enlisted the help of a conservative civil liberties group in hopes of getting his job back.

The Rutherford Institute of Charlottesville, Va., sent a letter Wednesday to First Student Bus Transportation Services demanding that Ken Webber of Medford be reinstated. The institute said flying the flag on the pickup truck while it was parked at the bus yard was protected by Webber's First Amendment right to free speech.

"These are important free speech issues," institute President John Whitehead said from Virginia. "We are facing a crisis in this country of political correctness."

First Student spokeswoman Bonnie Bastian did not immediately respond to a telephone call and e-mail for comment.

Webber said he was fired Tuesday for gross insubordination after refusing for the second time to take the flag off his CB antenna while parked in the bus yard in Talent, which is owned by the Phoenix-Talent School District.

"The flag's flying," he said from Medford.

Phoenix-Talent schools Superintendent Ben Bergreen had demanded the flag be removed from school property, citing a policy prohibiting symbols that could be offensive to minorities.

Bergreen said he had received a copy of the letter, but did not want to comment, because there might be a lawsuit.

Married with four children, Webber has maintained the flag is not a political or racist statement, but an expression of his "redneck" identity, also expressed in a tattoo on his left arm.

"We're doing the best we can," Webber said of the financial hardship the loss of his job means to his family. "I must say, my 8-year-old makes me proud. She took my picture from the Mail Tribune (newspaper) to school for show and tell. She was telling the kids in her class, 'This is my dad standing up for what he believes in and I'm proud of him for that.'"

In the letter to the school bus company, Rutherford attorney Douglas R. McKusick cited a 2002 federal court ruling that upheld the right of a city worker in Kansas to display a vanity license plate on his truck with a Confederate battle flag and the words, "Heritage, Not Hate," while parked at work.

In another case last November, the Sixth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the right of a Tennessee school district to suspend a student for wearing a T-shirt and belt buckle bearing the image of the Confederate battle flag.

-- The Associated Press

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...e_group_in_dispute_over_confederate_flag.html

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

He should be able to have the flag. The school is clearly in the wrong here. It was on his truck, not on the bus.

 

[santeesioux]

He should be able to have the flag. The school is clearly in the wrong here. It was on his truck, not on the bus.

I agree, but the guy is a douche lol.

 

[Mamba]

He can't fly a flag, yet the Westboro Baptist Church can protest funerals? Are you kidding me? I feel this guys 1st Amendment rights have been violated and I hope he sues the shit out of the school.

 

[Bob Dobalina]

He can't fly a flag, yet the Westboro Baptist Church can protest funerals? Are you kidding me? I feel this guys 1st Amendment rights have been violated and I hope he sues the shit out of the school.

Hmmm. Are they protesting funerals on school property or something? Not that I'm defending it. I just arguing the point you're making.

 

[Mamba]

No, but they're spewing hatred and condoning the deaths of people. The guy flies the flag on his personal vehicle, not on the bus he drives, right?

 

[Natebishop3]

Is he employed through the city or a private bus company?

 

[Bob Dobalina]

No, but they're spewing hatred and condoning the deaths of people. The guy flies the flag on his personal vehicle, not on the bus he drives, right?

Right, but this was the part that caught my eye:

Webber said he was fired Tuesday for gross insubordination after refusing for the second time to take the flag off his CB antenna while parked in the bus yard in Talent, which is owned by the Phoenix-Talent School District.

 

[Mamba]

I did a bad job at wording that...I meant to say its not like he is driving the flag on the bus that he drives. He drives it on his personal vehicle that just sits in the parking lot most of the day. If the company has a policy against bumper stickers, flags, etc...on personal vehicles in their parking lot, then I understand. If they don't...I really can't see how firing him is justified. He's got his political rights and 1st Amendment rights.

I'm sure the guy is a douchebag if he is willing to throw away his job that feeds his family just because he doesn't want to take down his flag, but I just can't see how this is justified and I see a lawsuit against the school district in the near future.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

The flag was on his CB antenna. Its not like a swastika.

 

[Bob Dobalina]

I did a bad job at wording that...I meant to say its not like he is driving the flag on the bus that he drives. He drives it on his personal vehicle that just sits in the parking lot most of the day. If the company has a policy against bumper stickers, flags, etc...on personal vehicles in their parking lot, then I understand. If they don't...I really can't see how firing him is justified. He's got his political rights and 1st Amendment rights.

I'm sure the guy is a douchebag if he is willing to throw away his job that feeds his family just because he doesn't want to take down his flag, but I just can't see how this is justified and I see a lawsuit against the school district in the near future.

They speak of a policy in the article quoted:

Phoenix-Talent schools Superintendent Ben Bergreen had demanded the flag be removed from school property, citing a policy prohibiting symbols that could be offensive to minorities.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

^That settles it. They had the right to fire him over it.

 

[Eastoff]

The confederate flag was the flag of the confederate army. A flag specifically representing secession at best, racism at worst.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

The US Flag is offensive to minorities too. I wonder if they would fire someone for having a Che Guerrera bumper sticker.

 

[Eastoff]

The US Flag is offensive to minorities too. I wonder if they would fire someone for having a Che Guerrera bumper sticker.

What minorities?

 

[Devils]

It's a tough line to define, that's for sure. I honestly think he should be reinstated, and the rule more clearly defined.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

What minorities?

any one. The wording is open to interpretation. What constitutes something being offensive, its not definable.

 

[jlprk]

He can't fly a flag, yet the Westboro Baptist Church can protest funerals? Are you kidding me? I feel this guys 1st Amendment rights have been violated and I hope he sues the shit out of the school.

Punishment can come from the legal system, an employer, peer pressure intimidation, your insurance company cancelling your policy, etc.

The Westboro ruling fell under what the LEGAL SYSTEM can do to stop the demonstrations. Cemeteries, being PRIVATE, can continue to kick out the demonstrators, so they have to stand off the grounds on public property.

The school bus driver case is about how an EMPLOYER can punish you, which is different from how the LAW can punish you. No one is advocating that the LAW punish him. This is similar to when your name appears in the media, so you get fired because some future customer MIGHT not like it, even though none have complained, and the employer MIGHT be embarrassed, without requiring any damages be proven by the EMPLOYER.

Bonus: We've all been indoctrinated that we have certain freedoms, but that's FEDERAL law. Many states haven't legislated a few of those freedoms, so they can get you under STATE law.

 

[jlprk]

In totalitarianism, there is one authority, and all rules are consistent with each other. Everyone understands them and life is simple. In democracy, also known as the adversary system, there are many powers and many conflicting rules, all trying to con you and outdo each other. Life is hell, and also, you get to choose among 10 identical Oriental brands whenever you make a purchasing decision. In related news, I am for single-payer health insurance.

 

[PapaG]

Punishment can come from the legal system, an employer, peer pressure intimidation, your insurance company cancelling your policy, etc.

The Westboro ruling fell under what the LEGAL SYSTEM can do to stop the demonstrations. Cemeteries, being PRIVATE, can continue to kick out the demonstrators, so they have to stand off the grounds on public property.

The school bus driver case is about how an EMPLOYER can punish you, which is different from how the LAW can punish you. No one is advocating that the LAW punish him. This is similar to when your name appears in the media, so you get fired because some future customer MIGHT not like it, even though none have complained, and the employer MIGHT be embarrassed, without requiring any damages be proven by the EMPLOYER.

Bonus: We've all been indoctrinated that we have certain freedoms, but that's FEDERAL law. Many states haven't legislated a few of those freedoms, so they can get you under STATE law.

Did the SSRI co-pay get to high for you to continue purchasing them?

You're on a roll today.

 

[blazerboy30]

any one. The wording is open to interpretation. What constitutes something being offensive, its not definable.

This.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

To me, I think the firing is unjustified. I understand that a Confederate flag can be taken offensively by minorities, but it is in and of itself not a racist symbol. I think it symbolizes the idea of being a rebel against the norm. But anything can be offensive to certain groups and yet it's not a firable offense. I mean, people in Portland were rear ending people's vehicle and injuring them and even setting a house on fire with no concern about killing the people inside because they had a conservative bumper sticker on their car or sign in their yard. No one made a big deal out of that.

Now, all that said, if the guy was asked to maybe not fly the flag on school property out of respect, I would hope he'd comply.

 

[jlprk]

I'm no lawyer, but I pretend to be one when PapaG is around, so here's my guess as to how those crooks think. The law is only here to protect the weak and innocent from the big bad bullies, by having the right to shoot anyone the nice police want, of course. Now in the process of protecting us all, for example from horrible violence like verbal threats and family arguments, the law draws a line between political symbols and acts that coerce, intimidate, or provoke a reaction.

political symbols: passive, intellectual, no movement to overtly get attention

examples: bumper sticker, poster in your house window, message on a t-shirt

coerce, intimidate, or provoke a reaction: moving objects fluttering in 3 dimensions, object raised above another object to coerce everyone into looking, anything that might frighten a Southern hick or professional manhater (same ideology), anything that might offend a childish adult claiming to see the world through a child's eyes

examples: large Confederate flag raised on an antenna, neon light flashing in your eyes, pornography the S. Carolina US Senate candidate Alvin Greene showed some adult college girl on his computer screen which landed him a felony from the asinine legal system

I'm just guessing. But I know how the profiteering jackals think.

 

[maxiep]

What if he parked his car outside of the lot?

Fuck the school district. There is a 1st Amendment right to offend, and if you're so sensitive that a Confederate flag offends you, then you're too sensitive to live.

 

[Bob Dobalina]

What if he parked his car outside of the lot?

Fuck the school district. There is a 1st Amendment right to offend, and if you're so sensitive that a Confederate flag offends you, then you're too sensitive to live.

Folks who fly the confederate flag offend me, but i'll live.

 

[julius]

What if he parked his car outside of the lot?

Fuck the school district. There is a 1st Amendment right to offend, and if you're so sensitive that a Confederate flag offends you, then you're too sensitive to live.

Interesting to note, but I'm not sure the 1st Amendment protects you on this one. The school can decide what they want on their grounds. If the guy had a photo of an aborted baby on his van (I've made the unfortunate mistake of driving next to one of those vans that have pictures of aborted fetus's on them), would it be a 1st amendment argument?

Obviously, one wouldn't say that if you're so sensitive (etc), but the school should have the right to have some kind of policy there. I wonder if they told him before hand (it might've said it in the article, I didn't read it).

Personally, I don't care if he has one. Its his or her right to chose, just as it's my right to think he's a complete chode for having it.

 

[maxiep]

Why did the school fire him rather than asking him to park his truck off school grounds? It seems they had a problem with his thoughts more than how he festooned his car.

 

[julius]

Why did the school fire him rather than asking him to park his truck off school grounds? It seems they had a problem with his thoughts more than how he festooned his car.

The article isn't clear if they did or did not ask him to park off campus.

 

[MARIS61]

The flag was on his CB antenna. Its not like a swastika.

I believe to some people it is exactly like seeing a swastika.

It's also the flag of the largest collective group of traitors to The United States of America, so you'd pretty much have to be some ignorant inbred redneck to not expect some people to be upset by it.

Which is what he appears to be. Dumbass has probably never even been to the south and now he's jeopardized his family's welfare by "playing redneck".

As far as "Freedom" of Speech applies as currently legally interpreted, I think he loses his case simply because it's on school property.

I support Freedom of Speech, unconditionally.

But there is no guarantee your speech will be warmly received.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

I find rainbow stickers, support diversity stickers and Obummer stickers, all piss me off. But its a freedom of speach thing. You cant legislate safety, or teach smart.