MEDICAL POT

[barfo]

drugwarfacts.com

approximate deaths per year

Sexual Behaviors 20,000

Wow.

barfo

 

[barfo]

Holy shit BrianFromWA is so much better than all of us. Why don't we worship him?

We all do. WTF are you talking about?

barfo

 

[barfo]

It'll take more than scaffolding...it's a lifetime of choosing the harder right. The advantage, though, is that there's always room at the top!
Of course I don't realize it and never have claimed to...I'm not an expert in the consumption of marijuana and don't choose to make it my hobby. I'm also not an expert in prostitution, rape, burglary, downloading pirated material, tapping a cable feed, gun-running, money laundering, taking gov't kickbacks, the difference in driving-while-high vs. DUI, stealing cars, hitting my wife, abusing my child or a host of other things that are also illegal. Nor in strip clubs or abortions or homosexuality, which I don't personally like but recognize are legal for people to do.

Wow, I'm an expert in all those things, except the homosexuality part. I sure enjoy a night of rape, downloading, gun-running, driving, abortion, and hitting your wife. In that order.

Choosing to do something illegal = choosing "wrong" over "right" = immoral. I don't know how to get around that.

I suppose the way around it would be to recognize that law and morality are not equivalent. It there was a law passed that outlawed Christianity, would you think Christianity was immoral?

barfo

 

[BrianFromWA]

Holy shit BrianFromWA is so much better than all of us. Why don't we worship him?

Fuck patriotism and fuck stupid laws.

You can if you'd like. One of our "stupid" laws is that I can't make you worship anyone you don't want to. I just wouldn't recommend it, though.

Another one of our "stupid" laws is the one that states one can partake of all the great things in the US without paying a dime in taxes, serving the country in any capacity, doing any volunteer work for your fellow man, while badmouthing whoever you'd like. It's only when you break other "stupid" laws that you have to accept the consequences of them.

No one can tell me what to do. I run red lights, muthafucka!

 

[BrianFromWA]

Wow, I'm an expert in all those things, except the homosexuality part. I sure enjoy a night of rape, downloading, gun-running, driving, abortion, and hitting your wife. In that order.



I suppose the way around it would be to recognize that law and morality are not equivalent. It there was a law passed that outlawed Christianity, would you think Christianity was immoral?

barfo

As was stated before, you're correct that law and morality are not equivalent. Morality and right v. wrong ARE equivalent. One aspect of wrong is "knowingly doing that which is illegal". I'd add "for selfish" gain.

But it seems like some people, instead of going to someplace like Canada where it is legal, want to partake of all the great parts of the US without the parts they don't like (like, say, following the laws of the country).

I'm shocked and amazed that an observation that there's sure a lot of brainpower being used on illegal activity provokes the pro-drug users to "fuck this" and "fuck that" and blatent sarcastic attacks. Stay classy!

 

[The Sebastian Express]

I wish we could all be as classy as you, Brian. Do you have a pamphlet we could all read? More importantly, will it be unfiltered so we can see your true classiness?

 

[BrianFromWA]

Don't look to me. I'm just a normal guy trying to do the right thing and fail a bunch.

$9.99 on Kindle. Happy to help!

 

[porkchopexpress]

As was stated before, you're correct that law and morality are not equivalent. Morality and right v. wrong ARE equivalent. One aspect of wrong is "knowingly doing that which is illegal". I'd add "for selfish" gain.

But it seems like some people, instead of going to someplace like Canada where it is legal, want to partake of all the great parts of the US without the parts they don't like (like, say, following the laws of the country).

I'm shocked and amazed that an observation that there's sure a lot of brainpower being used on illegal activity provokes the pro-drug users to "fuck this" and "fuck that" and blatent sarcastic attacks. Stay classy!

So, may I ask. Have you ever jay walked? Sped, even a little? Watched the Blazers on adhte or another one of those sites? If so, does that make you immoral because you broke the law?

Or, if this was pre civil war and you helped free a slave (illegally), would that make you immoral? I'm guessing most people would argue it was the moral thing to do. And I'm not equating slavery to pot smoking. They are obviously not even close to the same thing, but if breaking a law is your sole judge of right/wrong or moral/immoral, it's a valid example.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Why has this become "am I perfect"? I've answered that in this thread. But I'll answer again. No, I'm not.

I don't, however, spend lots of time thinking about how to beat a jaywalking charge, or constructing the best radar detector to beat speed traps, or attempted to code up a way to pirate a signal over 56k. I don't think that an adequate response to "I'm sad that you spend so much time and energy on illegal activity" is "oh yeah? You're immoral, too! Fuck laws!".

I DO spend a lot of time working with people who don't have much money, or places to live, or drug or mental problems, or can't speak very good English, kids without parents, etc. I spent a lot of time trying to learn my trade so that I could be the best at doing a tough and important job safely and well, and leading others to do the same. Part of my job now is managing programs that will allow the gov't to keep the same capability at lower cost while retaining safety performance and treaty obligations.

Pre-Civil War (and I've already talked about this), Wilberforce and Frederick Douglass the like were doing it the right way. John Brown was not, and Douglass told him so. One was legal. One was not. But we've been over that in other threads.

 

[MysteryMan]

BrainFromWA- haters gonna hate. I love how people have responded sarcastically and attacked you just because you have a different view from them. Didn't know people were so passionate about weed. Interesting

 

[porkchopexpress]

BrainFromWA- haters gonna hate. I love how people have responded sarcastically and attacked you just because you have a different view from them. Didn't know people were so passionate about weed. Interesting

It's not hate. The OP wanted info on medical pot and others were helping him out when Brian came in here and played the morality card. Yes it got a bit sarcastic, but that was after he accused them of being immoral and wasting their time/efforts/minds on weed. Wasn't that just Brian hating on them for having a different view? Showing that he is being contradictory is not attacking him.

And for the record, I am not passionate about weed and do not smoke, but find it pretty ridiculous that it is illegal while alcohol and tobacco are not. Legalize and tax it, just like the other two.

 

[MysteryMan]

It's not hate. The OP wanted info on medical pot and others were helping him out when Brian came in here and played the morality card. Yes it got a bit sarcastic, but that was after he accused them of being immoral and wasting their time/efforts/minds on weed. Wasn't that just Brian hating on them for having a different view? Showing that he is being contradictory is not attacking him.

And for the record, I am not passionate about weed and do not smoke, but find it pretty ridiculous that it is illegal while alcohol and tobacco are not. Legalize and tax it, just like the other two.

Yea you're right pce I didn't read all of the comments. Just went back and read most of them. Came in late, sorry my fault.

I wonder if weed was legalized do you think it would be good to put an age limit with it? I wonder if it was legalized whether a lot more poeple would be smoking or not; For recreational purposes not medical..

 

[maxiep]

It's not hate. The OP wanted info on medical pot and others were helping him out when Brian came in here and played the morality card. Yes it got a bit sarcastic, but that was after he accused them of being immoral and wasting their time/efforts/minds on weed. Wasn't that just Brian hating on them for having a different view? Showing that he is being contradictory is not attacking him.

And for the record, I am not passionate about weed and do not smoke, but find it pretty ridiculous that it is illegal while alcohol and tobacco are not. Legalize and tax it, just like the other two.

There is a hell of a difference between letting someone know of the alternatives and sharing ways to do something illegal without getting caught. Brian simply commented that it was a shame that someone would expend so much energy on avoiding the law.

 

[porkchopexpress]

Yea you're right pce I didn't read all of the comments. Just went back and read most of them. Came in late, sorry my fault.

I wonder if weed was legalized do you think it would be good to put an age limit with it? I wonder if it was legalized whether a lot more poeple would be smoking or not; For recreational purposes not medical..

If it was ever legalized, I'm sure they'd make it 21+, like with alcohol. I'd rather see 18+, but that's just me. I'm not sure if use would go up or down. I think you'd have more casual adult users, but possibly less youth, but I could be wrong. I do know that in high school it was easier for kids to get pot than it was to get cigarettes.

Back on the medicinal track of this thread. My friends step brother found out he had cancer (since has passed) at the age of 18 right after graduation. I didn't know him too well, but I do think that the medicinal marijuana helped with the pain and everything. Sadly the chemo and other treatments weren't as affective.

 

[BrianFromWA]

part of the issue is that I didn't see anyone (my apologies in advance if I missed it) who said that they had switched to medical marijuana from prescription narcotics, which is what the first one seemed to be asking. I apologize if the OP was looking for ways to keep his parents from finding out about illegal drug use.

I didn't play a "morality" card, other than to say (caution: repeat) that it's sad to me that so many smart people are spending so much time and brainpower on illegal activity. No morality judgment, no "shades of gray", no "you're going to hell, sinner!". Obviously that's too much opinion for some people.

 

[maxiep]

If it was ever legalized, I'm sure they'd make it 21+, like with alcohol. I'd rather see 18+, but that's just me. I'm not sure if use would go up or down. I think you'd have more casual adult users, but possibly less youth, but I could be wrong. I do know that in high school it was easier for kids to get pot than it was to get cigarettes.

Back on the medicinal track of this thread. My friends step brother found out he had cancer (since has passed) at the age of 18 right after graduation. I didn't know him too well, but I do think that the medicinal marijuana helped with the pain and everything. Sadly the chemo and other treatments weren't as affective.

I haven't seen a single post arguing against using marijuana for medical use. Clearly, the drug has real benefits for certain cases. I would never want someone to suffer needlessly, nor have I read a post in this thread forwarding that position. But the Cheech & Chong weed is harmless/alcohol equivalency is bullshit. The line has to be drawn somewhere, just like I can drive 65 on the Interstate but not 70 or 40 without getting a ticket. Alcohol is legal, weed isn't. Deal with it, or choose to break the law.

 

[porkchopexpress]

There is a hell of a difference between letting someone know of the alternatives and sharing ways to do something illegal without getting caught. Brian simply commented that it was a shame that someone would expend so much energy on avoiding the law.

Where were they showing him how to do something illegal without getting caught? The discussion got a little sidetracked with the, "which vaporizer is best", but even that was to best suit his needs. A vaporizer is a good method because of the lack of smoke. It's not like they were telling him how/where to buy illegally. He is still trying to go through the proper channels. You came in here because he mentioned he needed to go find another doctor, "calling bullshit". How do you know that his doctor isn't completely against medicinal marijuana (for whatever reason)? People get 2nd opinions all the time. Why is this any different?

 

[porkchopexpress]

I haven't seen a single post arguing against using marijuana for medical use. Clearly, the drug has real benefits for certain cases. I would never want someone to suffer needlessly, nor have I read a post in this thread forwarding that position. But the Cheech & Chong weed is harmless/alcohol equivalency is bullshit. The line has to be drawn somewhere, just like I can drive 65 on the Interstate but not 70 or 40 without getting a ticket. Alcohol is legal, weed isn't. Deal with it, or choose to break the law.

But what is the point of you and Brian chiming in on this thread? The OP obviously is suffering from pain. He asked a legit question and people were giving him feedback. Why does Brian need to add his 2 cents on how he feels about pot smokers? OR why do you have to question the OP's decision to go see another doctor? Do you guys expect to be able to come into a constructive discussion and bash those having it and not have those types of responses?

 

[BrianFromWA]

It's a message board. I read almost every single post on here, and had an opinion. It's not that difficult.

I didn't add my 2 cents about how I feel about pot smokers. I added my 2 cents about how I feel about those who are obviously smart people who demonstrated their in-depth knowledge of illegal activity. And I didn't get upset at the vitriol and ignorance coming back, just like I didn't feel vindicated by the relevant responses and supporting opinions. PCE, if you feel that a set of posts in the thread talking about blatent illegal usage and using a TP roll so that your parents don't figure it out, or recommendations about products allowing you to smoke in church have anything to do with the OP's question (which, like Maxiep, I don't have any problem with) then we have differing opinions on "constructive discussion" and bashing. Which is fine, but not necessarily a mystery.

 

[RR7]

Actually, maxie did seem to have a problem even with the OP, as instead of ignoring a topic he has previously "agreed to disagree" about in the past, he instead felt the need to question the original poster's medical qualifications, and what makes him qualified to question his doctor, etc. Your post, and his agreement with is another thing. I disagree, but people have their opinions, and that is what a board is for. I can understand your claim about if people put their minds to other uses, where the world might be. But maxie came in seemingly just to criticize the OP for making a choice to explore the use of medical marijuana, and mock him for questioning his doctor. Seems like a dick move to me. If you want to have a thread about medical marijuana laws, and the ability of children to get the product, so be it. But there's no need to be as condescending over someone's desire to not question their doctor, but seek an alternative their doctor does not offer.

 

[porkchopexpress]

It's a message board. I read almost every single post on here, and had an opinion. It's not that difficult.

I didn't add my 2 cents about how I feel about pot smokers. I added my 2 cents about how I feel about those who are obviously smart people who demonstrated their in-depth knowledge of illegal activity. And I didn't get upset at the vitriol and ignorance coming back, just like I didn't feel vindicated by the relevant responses and supporting opinions. PCE, if you feel that a set of posts in the thread talking about blatent illegal usage and using a TP roll so that your parents don't figure it out, or recommendations about products allowing you to smoke in church have anything to do with the OP's question (which, like Maxiep, I don't have any problem with) then we have differing opinions on "constructive discussion" and bashing. Which is fine, but not necessarily a mystery.

I assumed the church comment was a joke on some testimonial on that site (I didn't click the link). Anyone smoking in church is 1. dumb and 2. incredibly disrespectful.

As for the general premise of reducing the smell, do you not see the benefits of this for someone smoking medicinally? I assume by the OP's name that he is an old grouchy man. Isn't it possible he has kids that he wouldn't want smelling the smoke he'll be producing? Yes I'm sure the TP roll method is generally used to hide the smell from parents/authorities, but in this context it makes sense to bring it up. Just because the discussion is being driven mainly by recreational smokers (and ex smokers I believe) doesn't make their points any less valid/helpful to the OP.

 

[santeesioux]

[video=youtube;uCNqdIezHeA]

 

[maxiep]

Where were they showing him how to do something illegal without getting caught? The discussion got a little sidetracked with the, "which vaporizer is best", but even that was to best suit his needs. A vaporizer is a good method because of the lack of smoke. It's not like they were telling him how/where to buy illegally. He is still trying to go through the proper channels. You came in here because he mentioned he needed to go find another doctor, "calling bullshit". How do you know that his doctor isn't completely against medicinal marijuana (for whatever reason)? People get 2nd opinions all the time. Why is this any different?

I guess you missed the whole toilet paper roll with fabric softener sheet part of the thread.

I called bullshit because he self-diagnosed. He has every right to see another physician. It would be silly and disingenuous to go doctor-shopping that was simply going to agree with him and give him what he wanted without putting the patient's best interests first. Here in Denver, we have legalized medical marijuana. We now have more medical marijuana pharmacies than Starbucks. At one point, 90% of the prescriptions were written by four doctors. Do you think that's a coincidence? It's backdoor legalization.

 

[maxiep]

But what is the point of you and Brian chiming in on this thread? The OP obviously is suffering from pain. He asked a legit question and people were giving him feedback. Why does Brian need to add his 2 cents on how he feels about pot smokers? OR why do you have to question the OP's decision to go see another doctor? Do you guys expect to be able to come into a constructive discussion and bash those having it and not have those types of responses?

Because I was amazed at the detail of knowledge I've seen from people who have largely demonstrated ignorance on other topics on this forum. It struck me as sad and wasteful, and it turns out I wasn't the only one who thought that way.

 

[maxiep]

Actually, maxie did seem to have a problem even with the OP, as instead of ignoring a topic he has previously "agreed to disagree" about in the past, he instead felt the need to question the original poster's medical qualifications, and what makes him qualified to question his doctor, etc. Your post, and his agreement with is another thing. I disagree, but people have their opinions, and that is what a board is for. I can understand your claim about if people put their minds to other uses, where the world might be. But maxie came in seemingly just to criticize the OP for making a choice to explore the use of medical marijuana, and mock him for questioning his doctor. Seems like a dick move to me. If you want to have a thread about medical marijuana laws, and the ability of children to get the product, so be it. But there's no need to be as condescending over someone's desire to not question their doctor, but seek an alternative their doctor does not offer.

Thanks for your opinion. The wonderful thing about opinions is that anyone can have them, no matter how incorrect they are.

Since you seem to only read what you to, allow me to tell you my point. I think it's a bullshit move to see a doctor with a specific prescription in mind and then complain when that doctor won't give it to you. I think it's better to see more than one physician (I ALWAYS get second opinions on non-obvious medical issues) and see what they recommend and why. I'll bring up an alternative if I've done some research and ask why that physician isn't using my alternative.

I'll offer a concrete example. I suffer from migraines. I have been a faithful user of Imitrex. When I moved to Colorado, I had to find a new primary physician. I asked him to refill my prescription of Imitrex. He refused. He wrote me a prescription for Zomig instead. When I protested, he told my why Zomig was superior given my blood chemistry. Surprise, surprise, he was right. It works quicker and lasts longer. Gee, could it be a doctor knows more about prescription medication than I do?

 

[porkchopexpress]

I guess you missed the whole toilet paper roll with fabric softener sheet part of the thread.

I called bullshit because he self-diagnosed. He has every right to see another physician. It would be silly and disingenuous to go doctor-shopping that was simply going to agree with him and give him what he wanted without putting the patient's best interests first. Here in Denver, we have legalized medical marijuana. We now have more medical marijuana pharmacies than Starbucks. At one point, 90% of the prescriptions were written by four doctors. Do you think that's a coincidence? It's backdoor legalization.

Where did he self diagnose? He was being prescribed meds that were causing ill effects. He is seeking an alternative method to treat his pain, which has already been diagnosed. If his doctor isn't able to see that the pain meds aren't helping, or are making things worse, then why can't he seek out another opinion/doctor.

About the toilet paper roll, that could be beneficial to the OP, even if he obtains the marijuana legally. Plus, it's not really detailed/expert knowledge. I'm guessing at least 25% of my high school knew of that technique and probably even higher in my dorms in college. Whether it actually works, I have no clue, but I've know about it since I was 15 or so.

 

[maxiep]

Where did he self diagnose? He was being prescribed meds that were causing ill effects. He is seeking an alternative method to treat his pain, which has already been diagnosed. If his doctor isn't able to see that the pain meds aren't helping, or are making things worse, then why can't he seek out another opinion/doctor.

About the toilet paper roll, that could be beneficial to the OP, even if he obtains the marijuana legally. Plus, it's not really detailed/expert knowledge. I'm guessing at least 25% of my high school knew of that technique and probably even higher in my dorms in college. Whether it actually works, I have no clue, but I've know about it since I was 15 or so.

Wow, you're pretty fucking dense, so I'll repeat myself: I have no problem with seeking a second opinion, third opinion, fourth opinion, etc.; I do have a problem with doctor shopping to get a specific drug. Self-diagnosing is dangerous. It's why prescription medication is tightly controlled. It takes real expertise to understand what's best for the patient.

Edit: Where did he self-diagnose? In the first post. He had been prescribed something that had side effects, talked to someone else with the same pain who found relief through marijuana and asked his doctor to prescribe it to him. That's the essence of self-diagnosis.

 

[porkchopexpress]

Wow, you're pretty fucking dense, so I'll repeat myself: I have no problem with seeking a second opinion, third opinion, fourth opinion, etc.; I do have a problem with doctor shopping to get a specific drug. Self-diagnosing is dangerous. It's why prescription medication is tightly controlled. It takes real expertise to understand what's best for the patient.

Edit: Where did he self-diagnose? In the first post. He had been prescribed something that had side effects, talked to someone else with the same pain who found relief through marijuana and asked his doctor to prescribe it to him. That's the essence of self-diagnosis.

I'm dense because I don't see the harm in finding a doctor that will allow the opportunity for a real solution? The OP is not some junkie looking for an easy high. He seems to not have much, if any, experience with pot, but wants to at least give it a shot to work. What is the worst that could happen? He doesn't like how it makes him feel so he tells his doctor this and they try and find another solution? How is that dangerous?

 

[oldmangrouch]

Wow, you're pretty fucking dense, so I'll repeat myself: I have no problem with seeking a second opinion, third opinion, fourth opinion, etc.; I do have a problem with doctor shopping to get a specific drug. Self-diagnosing is dangerous. It's why prescription medication is tightly controlled. It takes real expertise to understand what's best for the patient.

Edit: Where did he self-diagnose? In the first post. He had been prescribed something that had side effects, talked to someone else with the same pain who found relief through marijuana and asked his doctor to prescribe it to him. That's the essence of self-diagnosis.

Correction. I asked the Doc about MM, and he simply said he does not prescribe it. There was no discussion or medical explanation. He was open about the fact that his reasons aren't medical - he doesn't want to deal with dopers who fake symptoms, etc. That's his right, but as you say, it is my right to seek other opinions.

Interestingly, the folks who gave the most direct response to my original question, tended to do so through PMs. When you are desperate enough to start considering "alternative medicine", talking to people who have been through it is helpful. I have no illusions that this is a "miracle cure" or anything.....I am just to the point where "lesser of evils" is worth considering. That's why I am specifically asking about a bedtime treatment - I have no interest in walking around stoned during the day.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Self-diagnosing is dangerous. .

not with marijuana it isnt, it is impossible to overdose or die from it. and it is non-addictive. unlike pretty much every other prescription pharmaceutical available.