Merged: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz [Wizards, guns, etc]

[ABM]

Wowsers.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-wizards-guns&prov=ap&type=lgns

NEW YORK (AP)—Washington Wizards teammates Gilbert Arenas(notes) and Javaris Crittenton(notes) drew guns on each other during a Christmas Eve locker room argument over a gambling debt, according to The New York Post.

Citing an anonymous source, the newspaper reports in Friday’s edition that the standoff was sparked when Crittenton became angry at Arenas for refusing to make good on a gambling debt. That prompted Arenas to draw on Crittenton, who then also grabbed for a gun, league security sources tell the Post.

Asked by the Post about the confrontation, Arenas denied pulling a gun on Crittenton.

“This is unprecedented in the history of sports,” Billy Hunter, executive director of the Player’s Association, tells the Post. “I’ve never heard of players pulling guns on each other in a locker room.”

The Wizards said on the night of Dec. 24 that Arenas had stored unloaded firearms in a container in his locker at the arena and that the NBA was looking into the situation. On Tuesday, Washington, D.C. police said they were investigating a report that weapons were found inside a locker room at the Verizon Center.

Now, the federal government is also involved. Ben Friedman, a spokesman for the US Attorney’s Office in DC, tells the Post “we’re working with the Metropolitan Police Department on the investigation.”

 

[ABM]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

Sorry, just now saw this on the Wiz thread.

Mods, please delete this thread.

Thanks.

 

[THE HCP]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And they called us gangstas when Bassy hid his gun under a pillow on our plane! These motherfuckers straight drew down on each other. In the Army our drill sergeants used to tell us, unless you are ready to pull that trigger, don't pull it out! HOw are these guys not Banned from the league ASAP!

 

[THE HCP]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

Fuck That! This deserves it's own thread!

 

[hasoos]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

That is fricking crazy. In the locker room? What like they couldn't wait until they were out partying in the hood after the game to throw down?

 

[illmatic99]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

I wonder if there were surveillance cameras?

 

[hasoos]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

I wonder if there were surveillance cameras?

Well how else would they catch those dudes stealing Chris Pauls deoderant in the commercials?

 

[julius]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And they called us gangstas when Bassy hid his gun under a pillow on our plane! These motherfuckers straight drew down on each other. In the Army our drill sergeants used to tell us, unless you are ready to pull that trigger, don't pull it out! HOw are these guys not Banned from the league ASAP!

That's a very good point. I think a lot of people point guns at people not knowing the ramifications of it.

A teacher I had when I was younger (who was a military/war buff, and knew stuff about guns, etc) said to our class that video games have desensitized people when it comes to guns. A lot of people think all you have to do is aim it at someone and that's it. He said that unless you are willing to pull the trigger, which includes aiming and dealing with the consequences, don't point your gun at someone. Or something close to that.

His point is that people don't seem to understand the power of a gun, and think it's a toy.

 

[THE HCP]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

Madness!

 

[hasoos]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

That's a very good point. I think a lot of people point guns at people not knowing the ramifications of it.

A teacher I had when I was younger (who was a military/war buff, and knew stuff about guns, etc) said to our class that video games have desensitized people when it comes to guns. A lot of people think all you have to do is aim it at someone and that's it. He said that unless you are willing to pull the trigger, which includes aiming and dealing with the consequences, don't point your gun at someone. Or something close to that.

His point is that people don't seem to understand the power of a gun, and think it's a toy.

Oh here we go again. The video games are all responsible again. Get real. Did you ever pause to think for a fact that maybe both guys knew exactly what they were doing, and if they weren't in such a public place, maybe they might have fired? The only thing that might have saved them, is that they thought about those ramifications.

 

[Kaydow]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

I thought about making a thread for this too, but wondered ya'll would think it's too OT. I agree with HCP - it merits a thread on our board.

What a disaster for the Wizz. Not that trading Arenas was going to happen with his contract, but this pretty much seals the deal on that. They need to blow up that team. There are some serious chemistry issues over there.

Think about how a team with that kind of talent is 10-20, and we are 21-13 with a mash unit of injuries. The have 3 guys (Arenas, Jamison, Butler) who are 20 ppg scorers. Arenas & Butler are both excellent passers (well, Arenas can be when he isn't chucking it too much) They have guys in the front court (Haywood, Blatche) who can score a little/rebound/block shots. And they have a couple of young guys in Harris and Foye who can come off the bench and provide a spark. Oh, and Boykins can do that as well. They have everything on paper to be a competitive team, but they aren't.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

Fuck That! This deserves it's own thread!

Yeah pretty much.

I'm just flabbergasted to be honest, I think we can safely say that chemistry in the locker room is in the shitter. Once your team is to the point of drawing iron to settle locker room disputes there can be no other choice but to blow it up.

Crazy.

 

[Sug]

Showdown at the Wizards Locker Room

The Wild West Wizards?

NEW YORK — Washington Wizards teammates Gilbert Arenas and Javaris Crittenton drew guns on each other during a Christmas Eve locker room argument over a gambling debt, according to The New York Post.

Citing an anonymous source, the newspaper reports in Friday's edition that the standoff was sparked when Crittenton became angry at Arenas for refusing to make good on a gambling debt. That prompted Arenas to draw on Crittenton, who then also grabbed for a gun, league security sources tell the Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/01/arenas-crittenton-guns-ga_n_408978.html

 

[Nikolokolus]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

That's a very good point. I think a lot of people point guns at people not knowing the ramifications of it.

A teacher I had when I was younger (who was a military/war buff, and knew stuff about guns, etc) said to our class that video games have desensitized people when it comes to guns. A lot of people think all you have to do is aim it at someone and that's it. He said that unless you are willing to pull the trigger, which includes aiming and dealing with the consequences, don't point your gun at someone. Or something close to that.

His point is that people don't seem to understand the power of a gun, and think it's a toy.

Nah. my cousins and neighborhood friends all played guns, and "war" and cowyboys and Indians and all of that other shit before video games were nothing but an 8-bit Nintendo or an Atari 2600. We never thought twice about pointing a fake gun at each other. Public hangings used to be a big spectacle in this country a little over a hundred years ago and Romans used to butcher each other in arenas for no other reason than to entertain themselves. Let's be real, human beings are brutish and prone to violence.

 

[Kaydow]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

Yeah pretty much.

I'm just flabbergasted to be honest, I think we can safely say that chemistry in the locker room is in the shitter. Once your team is to the point of drawing iron to settle locker room disputes there can be no other choice but to blow it up.

Crazy.

How bad do you think the fallout will be? Suspensions?

Maybe the team should switch their name back to the "Bullets"?

 

[julius]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

Oh here we go again. The video games are all responsible again. Get real. Did you ever pause to think for a fact that maybe both guys knew exactly what they were doing, and if they weren't in such a public place, maybe they might have fired? The only thing that might have saved them, is that they thought about those ramifications.

I believe you missed my point greatly. I did not say that video games are "all responsible" (nor did I even come close to saying that). I said that he was talking about how kids will play video games and not have a real grasp of how a gun works. The aiming, firing and consequences of firing. A lot kids don't have a personal experience with guns outside of video games, and video games don't present a realistic sample of what guns can do.

It's not saying that video games were the cause of anything, but that for some kids it's their experience.

It's a reason why the military breaks you down and then builds you up and trains you. They don't want you taking shooting a gun lightly. It's the reason a lot of police, after taking someones life in the line of duty, need counseling. Not that they haven't been trained, but because using a gun is a big deal, not to be taken lightly.

I don't see how saying that video games (and movies, too) have desensitized some people to guns and violence. It's not saying they are causing an increase, but that it's made it so they're not seen as the powerful weapon it is. To far too many kids (and young adults), they're seen as a toy (in the sense of not respecting it) and a status symbol (that they have no idea how to use).

A lot of people don't understand the impact of war and gun play, and some of that is because in a video game you see someone getting shot and you can reset. His point was that in real life, there is no reset button and that a lot of people don't understand the power that a gun has. And I don't mean power in the sense of glamor that it has with some cultures in our country.

There is a separation between what they think will happen and what will. Not that they don't know it'll kill someone, but in a way guns aren't respected because of this.

His point was that how people don't realize just how powerful a gun is, and the overall impact of war (it was a history class after all). He brought up how during WWI and WWII, there was a lot cases of shell shock (or as it's known now, ptsd) because of the constant barrage of gun, weapons, tanks, etc, and the incredible number of people who died right in front of them.

 

[Kaydow]

Re: Showdown at the Wizards Locker Room

Mods - merge threads?

 

[hasoos]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

I believe you missed my point greatly. I did not say that video games are "all responsible" (nor did I even come close to saying that). I said that he was talking about how kids will play video games and not have a real grasp of how a gun works. The aiming, firing and consequences of firing. A lot kids don't have a personal experience with guns outside of video games, and video games don't present a realistic sample of what guns can do.

It's not saying that video games were the cause of anything, but that for some kids it's their experience.

It's a reason why the military breaks you down and then builds you up and trains you. They don't want you taking shooting a gun lightly. It's the reason a lot of police, after taking someones life in the line of duty, need counseling. Not that they haven't been trained, but because using a gun is a big deal, not to be taken lightly.

I don't see how saying that video games (and movies, too) have desensitized some people to guns and violence. It's not saying they are causing an increase, but that it's made it so they're not seen as the powerful weapon it is. To far too many kids (and young adults), they're seen as a toy (in the sense of not respecting it) and a status symbol (that they have no idea how to use).

A lot of people don't understand the impact of war and gun play, and some of that is because in a video game you see someone getting shot and you can reset. His point was that in real life, there is no reset button and that a lot of people don't understand the power that a gun has. And I don't mean power in the sense of glamor that it has with some cultures in our country.

There is a separation between what they think will happen and what will. Not that they don't know it'll kill someone, but in a way guns aren't respected because of this.

His point was that how people don't realize just how powerful a gun is, and the overall impact of war (it was a history class after all). He brought up how during WWI and WWII, there was a lot cases of shell shock (or as it's known now, ptsd) because of the constant barrage of gun, weapons, tanks, etc, and the incredible number of people who died right in front of them.

Then why did you bring it up? You go on to say that you didn't want to blame video games for it, and then you rail on it for 3 more paragraphs with one paragraphs alluding to WW2. Nobody in their right mind believes there is reset button in life, and nobody who uses a gun believes it is a video game. Anybody who has fired a gun knows the difference right away. When that pop goes off, you know the power, you know what it can do. The facts are that humans are, well, human. They go off of their emotions more often than not, and often lead to actions which with a gun, you cannot take back.

A huge part of the problem if anything, is the problem in this country for anybody to take responsibility for their actions, and always wanting to blame somebody or something else for their actions. Unfortunatley that is the way our culture raises people. Pass the buck.

 

[Kaydow]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

Then why did you bring it up? You go on to say that you didn't want to blame video games for it, and then you rail on it for 3 more paragraphs with one paragraphs alluding to WW2. oobody in their right mind believes there is reset button in life, and nobody who uses a gun believes it is a video game. Anybody who has fired a gun knows the difference right away. When that pop goes off, you know the power, you know what it can do. The facts are that humans are, well, human. They go off of their emotions more often than not, and often lead to actions which with a gun, you cannot take back.

A huge part of the problem if anything, is the problem in this country for anybody to take responsibility for their actions, and always wanting to blame somebody or something else for their actions. Unfortunatley that is the way our culture raises people. Pass the buck.

Can you guys make an OT thread about video games/violence? I want to read about the Wizzards ordeal in here.

 

[oldguy]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

How bad do you think the fallout will be? Suspensions?

Maybe the team should switch their name back to the "Bullets"?

Now that's some funny shit right there!

Seems odd that GA drew his gun, then JC drew. If Arenas was serious enough to draw first, he kind of pussed out if he didn't pull the trigger when JC picked up his gun. He's damned lucky that JC didn't shoot him. Like others have said, if you are going to pull a gun on someone, you better be ready to use it.

Go Blazers

 

[julius]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

Then why did you bring it up? You go on to say that you didn't want to blame video games for it, and then you rail on it for 3 more paragraphs with one paragraphs alluding to WW2.

rail on it? really? You mean point out how people don't have respect for what a gun can do, and think of it as a toy? That's "railing" on it?

I brought it up because HCP brought up how when he was in the military his drill sgts brought up a similar point that the teacher made. Guns (and various kinds of weapons, regardless of their originality) are real life. A lot of young people don't understand that. A lot of young people use weapons in a manner that they're not intended for.

I really doubt that Arenas and whoever that other guy is, were really going to shoot each other. But they were pulling them out (if this is true) as though it was kind of a toy or "I'm a bigger man than you" bravado.

If you own a gun, you should know you don't pull out a gun unless you plan on killing something. Doing it over a few bucks (in the grand scheme, it's a few bucks), shows these guys have no sense of reality or responsibility.

nobody in their right mind believes there is reset button in life, and nobody who uses a gun believes it is a video game. Anybody who has fired a gun knows the difference right away.

talk to some kids these days. It might not be as clear cut as what I'm saying, but there is a disconnect between what they experience, and what would happen. I'm not saying they don't know that you can kill someone with a gun, but that they don't understand the responsibility of gun ownership or the respect guns deserve.

When that pop goes off, you know the power, you know what it can do. The facts are that humans are, well, human. They go off of their emotions more often than not, and often lead to actions which with a gun, you cannot take back.

A huge part of the problem if anything, is the problem in this country for anybody to take responsibility for their actions, and always wanting to blame somebody or something else for their actions. Unfortunatley that is the way our culture raises people. Pass the buck.

That was kind of his point too. And kind of my point. Its not a video game, it's real life. Kids don't always see that, because they're still forming their brains. Some adults don't see that either. There's not always a lot of great depth in the thought process, and too many people get their education on guns from sources that are inadequate.

His main point was that if you're going to point the gun at something, it should be because you intend to kill it. He used video games as a way to connect with kids, because kids play video games and that is a lot of their experiences with guns.

I'm a huge proponent for gun education for those who own guns and those who don't.

I think you reached really hard to turn this into an argument against video games being the root of gun issues, that I didn't make.

 

[LOTBfan]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

It is hard for me to believe that there isn't some sort of conduct clause in the cba that would let the Wizards waive both of these fools. Zero SHOULD have just screwed himself out of the best contract in the NBA with this move.

You draw a gun on a coworker, and you keep your job?

 

[e_blazer]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

I guess we now know the real reason why Arenas is called "Agent Zero". That's how much he pays on his gambling debts.

Seriously, though, this is beyond stupid. I can't imagine Stern not suspending them for an historic number of games.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

It is hard for me to believe that there isn't some sort of conduct clause in the cba that would let the Wizards waive both of these fools. Zero SHOULD have just screwed himself out of the best contract in the NBA with this move.

You draw a gun on a coworker, and you keep your job?

The NBA CBA is probably the most player friendly set of bylaws in all of professional sports. There are conduct clauses, that allow a team to suspend a player without pay, but there is absolutely no way they can void his contract and take his money off the cap. Depending on how this thing shakes out legally, their best bet is to probably try and work out some kind of buyout with him, but they're still stuck with his caphold barring something completely unprecedented.

Look at Jamaal Tinsely and all of the trouble he got into with guns, and the Pacers were still stuck with his contract.

 

[Kaydow]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

It is hard for me to believe that there isn't some sort of conduct clause in the cba that would let the Wizards waive both of these fools. Zero SHOULD have just screwed himself out of the best contract in the NBA with this move.

You draw a gun on a coworker, and you keep your job?

You mean you don't have this problem where you work? Happens to me all the time. That's why I don't gamble anymore.

This is going to be interesting to watch how this plays out. So many variables. Are there going to be criminal charges? Jail time? Washington has some of the strictest firearms laws in the country (or so I've heard)

With all our injuries, and our #1 Draft Choice (once in a generation Center) out again it's been easy to feel sorry for ourselves. KP always talks about culture, which sometimes sounds like psychobabble, but I'm sure glad we don't have stuff like this happen anymore. And we're not 10-20 with an $80 million payroll.

 

[Kaydow]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

The NBA CBA is probably the most player friendly set of bylaws in all of professional sports. There are conduct clauses, that allow a team to suspend a player without pay, but there is absolutely no way they can void his contract and take his money off the cap. Depending on how this thing shakes out legally, their best bet is to probably try and work out some kind of buyout with him, but they're still stuck with his caphold barring something completely unprecedented.

Look at Jamaal Tinsely and all of the trouble he got into with guns, and the Pacers were still stuck with his contract.

Don't you think this is different though Nik? Two teammates drawing guns on each other in the team's locker room?

I do hate the contract structure of the NBA - it can just handicap you for years (as we saw with Darius Miles) How has the Player's Union been able to negotiate this when the NFL is all non-guaranteed? I've never understood that.

 

[barfo]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

Don't you think this is different though Nik? Two teammates drawing guns on each other in the team's locker room?

I do hate the contract structure of the NBA - it can just handicap you for years (as we saw with Darius Miles) How has the Player's Union been able to negotiate this when the NFL is all non-guaranteed? I've never understood that.

Basketball players matter more than football players. There are fewer of them, and there is more of a star system. The fans follow/worship individual players more. Thus basketball players have more power.

barfo

 

[Sug]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

I would say that this is far worse than what Ron Artest did in Detroit, and actually it is in some ways the worst locker room security issue perhaps in NBA history.

Telfair was actually pretty bad as well, but in the end what did he get?

 

[Blazer_Hippie]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

I would say that this is far worse than what Ron Artest did in Detroit, and actually it is in some ways the worst locker room security issue perhaps in NBA history.

Telfair was actually pretty bad as well, but in the end what did he get?

It is amazing if these guys can't be fired over this...wow...

Telfair was self defense.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Re: OT: Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad Boyz

Meh.

This is one of those stories I tend to discount by at least 75%.