Merged: Crabbe Traded to Brk (1 Viewer)

[PtldPlatypus]

Look at Gordon's AST%, both last year and for his career and compare it to Crabbe. He's 2x - 3x the creator Crabbe is.

Crabbe was assisted on .775 of his 2FG and .970 of his 3FG. Gordon was assisted on .446 of his 2FG and .841 of his 3FG.

So yes, Gordon is much more capable of creating for himself and others, and yes, that puts more pressure on the defense than a passive player that relies almost entirely on others to create opportunities for him.

BNM

Yet somehow, despite all the pressure he puts on a defense with his aggressiveness, ball-handling, shot creating, and distribution skills, Gordon's Ortg was 5 points lower than his Drtg, despite being on a 55-win team which had an Ortg 6 points higher than its Drtg.

Contrast that with Crabbe, who despite being terrible defender on a .500 team, had an Ortg 3 points higher than his Drtg, and 9 points higher than the team's overall Ortg.

So it's arguable that despite his one-dimensional nature, Crabbe actually helped his team's performance significantly more than Gordon did this past year.

 

[-Ace-]

S2 Remembers

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

If I said "fuck you", would it not be an insult?

That's right, those other times you insulted me for having a different opinion then you.

Was he riding round town with the girl you love?

 

[Hobbesarable]

WTF did you say to me?

Hahaha. This thread of sensitivity is seriously entertaining!

 

[Sedatedfork]

Can we do a lopsided trade for Lebron now?

 

[Paine Tablet]

I don't think Crabbe was his favorite person lol

I picked up some animosity from Lillard last summer when Lillard was probed about some of the signings. I had the feeling his seeming annoyance had to do with the Crabbe deal.

 

[Reep]

Can we do a lopsided trade for Lebron now?

I thought you couldn't add the trade exception to a player (e.g. CJ + TE = James).

 

[Boob-No-More]

Yet somehow, despite all the pressure he puts on a defense with his aggressiveness, ball-handling, shot creating, and distribution skills, Gordon's Ortg was 5 points lower than his Drtg, despite being on a 55-win team which had an Ortg 6 points higher than its Drtg.

Contrast that with Crabbe, who despite being terrible defender on a .500 team, had an Ortg 3 points higher than his Drtg, and 9 points higher than the team's overall Ortg.

So it's arguable that despite his one-dimensional nature, Crabbe actually helped his team's performance significantly more than Gordon did this past year.

Seriously, you're now resorting to using ORtg and DRtg to make a case for Crabbe. C'mon you're better than that...

From Dean Oliver's definition of ORtg:

"Individual offensive rating is the number of points produced by a player per hundred total individual possessions. In other words, 'How many points is a player likely to generate when he tries?'"

And that right there is the difference between Eric Gordon and Allen Crabbe. Crabbe doesn't try to score nearly as often as Gordon. He's a very passive player.

Gordon scores 35% more points and generates 86% more assists per 100 possessions than Crabbe.

So, who puts more pressure on the defense, an aggressive player that tries to score and creates for others, or a passive player who depends on others to create for him?

BNM

 

[andalusian]

Your metaphor doesn't work because 3pts = 3pts, while a 30 yard pass > a 5 yard pass.

But it is not 3pt = 3pt - it is 3pt when there is a contested shot vs. a pass that runs the clock out or forces someone else to take that shot when there are no clear shots.

The 2 are not the same.

 

[Reep]

 

[Driew]

I picked up some animosity from Lillard last summer when Lillard was probed about some of the signings. I had the feeling his seeming annoyance had to do with the Crabbe deal.

Oh absolutely. Didn't Crabbe play better without dame on the court this past season too? There was some stat posted on here earlier this summer that Crabbe shot a worse percentage with dame than without dame.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Seriously, you're now resorting to using ORtg and DRtg to make a case for Crabbe. C'mon you're better than that...

From Dean Oliver's definition of ORtg:

"Individual offensive rating is the number of points produced by a player per hundred total individual possessions. In other words, 'How many points is a player likely to generate when he tries?'"

And that right there is the difference between Eric Gordon and Allen Crabbe. Crabbe doesn't try to score nearly as often as Gordon. He's a very passive player.

Gordon scores 35% more points and generates 86% more assists per 100 possessions than Crabbe.

So, who puts more pressure on the defense, an aggressive player that tries to score and creates for others, or a passive player who depends on others to create for him?

BNM

I'm not "trying to make a case for Crabbe." I'm trying to point out that the case for Gordon isn't as cut-and-dried as you're trying to make it out to be. You're focused on offensive aggressiveness and shot creation to the exclusion of everything else, and honestly it's beneath you.

I've come to expect better.

 

[Boob-No-More]

BTW, for all those lamenting the Crabbe trade, what happened to only wanting players who want to be here?

This is clearly what Crabbe wanted. He waived his trade kicker to allow this trade to happen. He also signed that offer sheet with BRK last summer with the anticipation that if Portland didn't match (and BRK made it VERY painful to match) he wasn't just getting a huge payday, but the opportunity to be a starter.

Crabbe wanted this. He preferred going to BRK with the chance to start over staying in POR and coming off the bench. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but given the choice he chose BRK over POR.

BNM

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

"Hi-five, bro! Now I can get PAID!"

 

[BBert]

Is there an actual rumor linking us to Gordon?

Rumor? We don't need to stinkin rumor!

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Im willing to bet $50 AC will never average more than 15ppg in his career.

I'll take that bet. All Crabbe has to do is score 30pts one night and 0pts the next and that is an average of 15pts per game.

Or 20pts one night and 10pts the next, 15pt average.

I'll bet $50 he could do that once in his career.

 

[Sarni]

BTW, for all those lamenting the Crabbe trade, what happened to only wanting players who want to be here?

This is clearly what Crabbe wanted. He waived his trade kicker to allow this trade to happen. He also signed that offer sheet with BRK last summer with the anticipation that if Portland didn't match (and BRK made it VERY painful to match) he wasn't just getting a huge payday, but the opportunity to be a starter.

Crabbe wanted this. He preferred going to BRK with the chance to start over staying in POR and coming off the bench. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but given the choice he chose BRK over POR.

BNM

And it's a reasonable choice for him. He will almost certainly start every game and play 30 minutes a night comfortably because he will be their best shooting guard. Also, he might have some fun playing regularly with Russell. That team is bad but they won't be tanking (have no reason too) and he might develop there.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

If I said "fuck you", would it not be an insult?

It would depend on a couple of things.

Do you want to fuck him?

Are you good at fucking?

 

[BBert]

BTW, for all those lamenting the Crabbe trade, what happened to only wanting players who want to be here?

This is clearly what Crabbe wanted. He waived his trade kicker to allow this trade to happen. He also signed that offer sheet with BRK last summer with the anticipation that if Portland didn't match (and BRK made it VERY painful to match) he wasn't just getting a huge payday, but the opportunity to be a starter.

Crabbe wanted this. He preferred going to BRK with the chance to start over staying in POR and coming off the bench. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but given the choice he chose BRK over POR.

BNM

No kidding. The hate Batum got for signing a big offer sheet...LOL.

 

[riverman]

I picked up some animosity from Lillard last summer when Lillard was probed about some of the signings. I had the feeling his seeming annoyance had to do with the Crabbe deal.

The summer league after we matched AC's contract Dame and CJ sat together at the game and Crabbe was not sitting near them at all...he was with his entourage...they didn't seem to have even eye contact when the camera panned to them so this move was probably a good one long term...

 

[Minstrel]

I'm not "trying to make a case for Crabbe." I'm trying to point out that the case for Gordon isn't as cut-and-dried as you're trying to make it out to be. You're focused on offensive aggressiveness and shot creation to the exclusion of everything else, and honestly it's beneath you.

I've come to expect better.

I think Boob's point is that the Offensive Rating basically rates their impact when they use a possession. Crabbe generally only uses a possession when he's wide open, so he's clearly going to run a great ORtg. It would be a bit like comparing DeAndre Jordan's ORtg to, say, prime Jermaine O'Neal's--Jordan only uses a possession to dunk. O'Neal had to use possessions to create shots out of the post (or via defended jumper). If Jordan ran a higher ORtg (I don't know if he did, I haven't checked since this is just hypothetical) it wouldn't mean a lot.

I agree the "you're better than this" is overly confrontational, heh. Let's not lose the actual points by turning hostile--that's what the OT forum is for.

 

[andalusian]

Saw the following on RealGM - not sure how accurate it is:

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I've seen a couple tweets today that said Portland was far better statistically with Harkless on the floor than Crabbe....

 

[BonesJones]

But it is not 3pt = 3pt - it is 3pt when there is a contested shot vs. a pass that runs the clock out or forces someone else to take that shot when there are no clear shots.

The 2 are not the same.

Do you really think we had a lot of shot clock violations from Crabbe passing out of a contested three at the end of the clock? That didn't happen often, at all.

 

[BonesJones]

Saw the following on RealGM - not sure how accurate it is:

That's quite a difference.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I've seen a couple tweets today that said Portland was far better statistically with Harkless on the floor than Crabbe....

I've seen a couple of posts today that show this forum is far better sadisticly with me posting in it.

 

[BonesJones]

I've seen a couple tweets today that said Portland was far better statistically with Harkless on the floor than Crabbe....

Which is why we shouldn't give up Harkless to get the PF version of Crabbe (Ryan Anderson).

 

[andalusian]

Do you really think we had a lot of shot clock violations from Crabbe passing out of a contested three at the end of the clock? That didn't happen often, at all.

There were many times I was wondering why he did not shoot when he had the ball. I do not have a statistical analysis of this. I do know that this team had tons of possessions when CJ and Dame were trapped that ended with Harkless or Aminu doing something with the ball that ended with a lost possession - how many of these are from Crabbe not being aggressive with the ball I can not tell you.

This is probably why I like ET more than Crabbe - he shoots low percentage - but when the offense grids to a halt - he will facilitate something for himself or someone else - I would rather have that happen and end with a clank than having Moe or Aminu left with the ball in their hand having to attack the rim off the dribble.

 

[Boob-No-More]

No kidding. The hate Batum got for signing a big offer sheet...LOL.

That's the thing I don't get. Batum got all kind of hate in this forum when he signed the MIN offer sheet. People really turned on him for signing a lucrative offer with a chance for an expanded role.

Is it because he's French?

BNM

 

[BonesJones]

Hahaha. This thread of sensitivity is seriously entertaining!

All I saw was apparently I got red text saying I was insulted for saying Hark and AC to Gordon and Ariza would be a downgrade! WTF was a reasonable reaction!

This is a salty, sensitive summer all around.