Merged: Heat want Andre and Rudy

[hasoos]

This deal blows ass. The only way I can see things working out is if we sign a free agent to replace Rudy in the lineup, like Mathews.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Re: Heat after A.Miller

REPLY TO PLATYPUS TRADE IDEA;

Except i couldn't get that trade to work on Realgm, but it's a great starter idea. Got it to work if it's Batum, Przbilla and Beasley to NO, Miller to Miami amd Paul and Chalmers to us. Throw in a draft pick from our side to NO

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Re: Heat after A.Miller

Don't you guys get it? Trading Rudy for Chalmers lets us get ANOTHER PG. The blazers new mantra from the 70s: "Eight is Enough."

 

[Nikolokolus]

This deal blows ass. The only way I can see things working out is if we sign a free agent to replace Rudy in the lineup, like Mathews.

There's been some additional information added. Miller and Rudy as a package deal is seen as being very unlikely, but Rudy for Chalmers and a first is seen as still having legs.
http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2010/07/andre_miller_and_rudy_fernande.html

That deal doesn't blow ass at all IMO. Both players are in a similar situation of coming off of down sophomore years, both probably want/need a change of scenery and the inclusion of a pick on Portland's side has got to be seen as enough to tip the scales from a push to a win.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Re: Heat after A.Miller

REPLY TO PLATYPUS TRADE IDEA;

Except i couldn't get that trade to work on Realgm, but it's a great starter idea. Got it to work if it's Batum, Przbilla and Beasley to NO, Miller to Miami amd Paul and Chalmers to us. Throw in a draft pick from our side to NO

Batum, Miller, Joel 1st from Portland, 1st from Toronto via Miami, 1st from Miami to NO

Paul, Beasley, Chalmers to Portland

Rudy to Miami

 

[alex42083]

Re: Heat after A.Miller

Don't you guys get it? Trading Rudy for Chalmers lets us get ANOTHER PG. The blazers new mantra from the 70s: "Eight is Enough."

We have a TON of PGs right now... bigger deal coming soon?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Re: Heat after A.Miller

We have a TON of PGs right now... bigger deal coming soon?

Do we really have a ton? I'm not so sure. You can't count the rookies because we have no idea how Williams and Johnson are going to pan out against NBA competition, Bayless is more 2 than 1, Rudy can't dribble with his off-hand and can't defend 1s, Mills is a less talented Damon clone, and what you are left with is a ball dominant 2 guard in Brandon who plays a little bit like a 1 and Andre Miller your only true point guard.

 

[Harry's Raincoat]

Re: Heat after A.Miller

Batum, Miller, Joel 1st from Portland, 1st from Toronto via Miami, 1st from Miami to NO

Paul, Beasley, Chalmers to Portland

Rudy to Miami

Miami HAS TO trade Beasley in order to possibly sign Lebron in addition to Wade, Bosh. They don't have the cap space NOW for three max contracts. If they're close to Lebron, they'll do ANYTHING and include ANYTHING in order to create that space. I wish we weren't the ones helping them out. BUT, if we can get Paul out of it (Chris not Schilly), then you do it and meet them in the Finals.

 

[B-Roy]

Well if you get Chalmers for Rudy, then you'll have a glut of PGs. I can't see a scenario where at least one of the three (Chalmers, Bayless, Miller) would be moved in another deal.

 

[glazeduck]

Something I haven't seen mentioned in this thread yet is what New Orleans wants...

George Shinn is trying to sell the team, so the fewer contracts they have, the better. While expiring contracts are appealing, a lack of contracts (or in this "what-if" case, a Traded Player Exception) are even better. Unquestionably the Blazers and Hornets have had discussions. Perhaps the Blazers have been told that a deal could get done if the Blazers could turn some of that expiring money into TPE Money?

If we could do this Miami trade without bringing Beasley back, have it JUST be Chalmers and Toronto's pick, then we'd be bringing back a very nice TPE which would equal to Shinn dollar-to-dollar savings. No one out there is going to argue that this deal brings us fair talent back, however I think you could argue that it helps us in trying to get Paul with an Andre-Miller's-contract-sized TPE, Joel's Insurance covered contract, an extra appealing 1st rd. pick and less hesitance to move Bayless (since we'd have Chalmers as a backup).

Certainly it's all supposition at this point, but if this trade WERE to guarantee us getting Paul, I'd say it'd be a no-brainer. Chalmers and an attractive 1st is GREAT value for Rudy at this point. Think about it this way -- CERTAINLY the Blazers have dangled Dre and Rudy as part of a Paul trade (along with other stuff), and NO walked away. If you could turn those 2 into some other package that NO would trade Paul for, isn't it worth it? AND on top of that, it would ALSO get us a young backup PG that we've liked for a long time (I trust our scouts more than I trust stats or my eyes), and potentially a 1st round pick (depending on what NO would want).

 

[MrSelfDestruct]

Well if you get Chalmers for Rudy, then you'll have a glut of PGs. I can't see a scenario where at least one of the three (Chalmers, Bayless, Miller) would be moved in another deal.

I'm not so sure. I think that trade clearly defines the roles of the second unit. It moves Bayless to SG (which he is more natural it seems anyway), Chalmers becomes our backup PG. Willams and Johnson fight for scraps.

Personally I got sick and tired of watching leads disappear/deficits grow when the second unit played last year. If we have at least one good defender in the backcourt (two if Bayless puts it together), that should slow the opponent enough to give the starters a little rest. That alone makes the deal (Rudy for Chalmers/Pick) a "go" for me.

 

[BGrantFan]

Why on Earth would Portland trade away Andre Miller for a PG with a 10.7 PER? How does that make Portland better? Plus, if Miller is not a part of the deal, that gives us 4 PGs on the roster for next season.

Miller
Bayless
Williams
Chalmers

and, likely one of:

Mills
Johnson

That's potentially 5 PGs on a 15-man roster for a team that could have Roy play PG minutes in a pinch.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Why on Earth would Portland trade away Andre Miller for a PG with a 10.7 PER? How does that make Portland better? Plus, if Miller is not a part of the deal, that gives us 4 PGs on the roster for next season.

Miller
Bayless
Williams
Chalmers

and, likely one of:

Mills
Johnson

That's potentially 5 PGs on a 15-man roster for a team that could have Roy play PG minutes in a pinch.

Of course, that's assuming that all of those are actually point guards. I find it much more reasonable to list both Bayless and Williams as shooting guards. Doing so gives you:

PG--Miller/Chalmers/(Mills/Johnson)
SG--Roy/Bayless/Williams

Not unbalanced at all.

REPLY TO PLATYPUS TRADE IDEA;

Except i couldn't get that trade to work on Realgm, but it's a great starter idea.

Real GM doesn't allow it because it still reflects several cap holds for Miami, which have been renounced. If they were removed, it would pass.

 

[Natebishop3]

Something I haven't seen mentioned in this thread yet is what New Orleans wants...

George Shinn is trying to sell the team, so the fewer contracts they have, the better. While expiring contracts are appealing, a lack of contracts (or in this "what-if" case, a Traded Player Exception) are even better. Unquestionably the Blazers and Hornets have had discussions. Perhaps the Blazers have been told that a deal could get done if the Blazers could turn some of that expiring money into TPE Money?

If we could do this Miami trade without bringing Beasley back, have it JUST be Chalmers and Toronto's pick, then we'd be bringing back a very nice TPE which would equal to Shinn dollar-to-dollar savings. No one out there is going to argue that this deal brings us fair talent back, however I think you could argue that it helps us in trying to get Paul with an Andre-Miller's-contract-sized TPE, Joel's Insurance covered contract, an extra appealing 1st rd. pick and less hesitance to move Bayless (since we'd have Chalmers as a backup).

Certainly it's all supposition at this point, but if this trade WERE to guarantee us getting Paul, I'd say it'd be a no-brainer. Chalmers and an attractive 1st is GREAT value for Rudy at this point. Think about it this way -- CERTAINLY the Blazers have dangled Dre and Rudy as part of a Paul trade (along with other stuff), and NO walked away. If you could turn those 2 into some other package that NO would trade Paul for, isn't it worth it? AND on top of that, it would ALSO get us a young backup PG that we've liked for a long time (I trust our scouts more than I trust stats or my eyes), and potentially a 1st round pick (depending on what NO would want).

That really makes a lot of sense, especially when you pair that trade exception with Joel's insured contract for next season, and you have Shinn cutting A LOT of money off his books. Potentially 14 million. I think if we're moving Miller, it means we're trading for Paul. That's just my gut. We're not giving up our starting point guard without something better coming back, and Michael Beasley is not "something better."

 

[Mediocre Man]

I dunno about this deal, but it seems Rudy is definately on his way out.

http://www.blazersfanshop.com/T-Shirts--Short-Sleeve/2001/200-2001/dept

 

[glazeduck]

That really makes a lot of sense, especially when you pair that trade exception with Joel's insured contract for next season, and you have Shinn cutting A LOT of money off his books. Potentially 14 million. I think if we're moving Miller, it means we're trading for Paul. That's just my gut. We're not giving up our starting point guard without something better coming back, and Michael Beasley is not "something better."

Exactly. You don't give up Miller unless there's something else in the works. The ONLY other way I can see this coming to fruition is if maybe the FO think it's time to see how good of a pairing Bayless and Roy really are. It's hard to deny that JB made strides last year, and I really think that down the stretch he was starting to look like a damn effective PG.

Even then though... You'd expect we could get more for Miller's expiring contract at the deadline. While I think a 1st and Chalmers is good value for Rudy, it's TERRIBLE value for Rudy AND Dre...

 

[Natebishop3]

I dunno about this deal, but it seems Rudy is definately on his way out.

http://www.blazersfanshop.com/T-Shirts--Short-Sleeve/2001/200-2001/dept

Wow... either they think his merchandise isn't worth shit, or Rudy is already packed and ready to go.

 

[Natebishop3]

Exactly. You don't give up Miller unless there's something else in the works. The ONLY other way I can see this coming to fruition is if maybe the FO think it's time to see how good of a pairing Bayless and Roy really are. It's hard to deny that JB made strides last year, and I really think that down the stretch he was starting to look like a damn effective PG.

Even then though... You'd expect we could get more for Miller's expiring contract at the deadline. While I think a 1st and Chalmers is good value for Rudy, it's TERRIBLE value for Rudy AND Dre...

Well, if the trade happens as reported, I guess we hope that Beasley pans out. Reminds me of a trade for a troubled and talented young forward from the Washington Bullets.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Well, if the trade happens as reported, I guess we hope that Beasley pans out. Reminds me of a trade for a troubled and talented young forward from the Washington Bullets.

Yeah ... there is that. Maybe South Beach is just too much for Beasley to handle AND concentrate on basketball ... if he comes here, he's either going to deep throat a 44 magnum by mid February out of boredom/depression or he may be able to do nothing but focus on hoops (or I suppose he could become the next Darius and make it rain in one of our many fine gentlemen's clubs around town).

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah ... there is that. Maybe South Beach is just too much for Beasley to handle AND concentrate on basketball ... if he comes here, he's either going to deep throat a 44 magnum by mid February out of boredom/depression or he may be able to do nothing but focus on hoops (or I suppose he could become the next Darius and make it rain in one of our many fine gentlemen's clubs around town).

I think he would do well on this team. We have a good environment with Roy, Aldridge, etc, and who knows... maybe he would like Portland. He definitely has talent. I've always been a fan of high risk/high reward moves, and I'm really not sure how good this team is going to be next year anyway. I think some more deals need to be made before we're going to be considered legitimate contenders.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Why would we trade away our veteran PG if we're building a championship team? If that happens, its just proof that the Blazers are in "blow it up" mode.

Chalmers was a Pritchard choice b/c of the Kansas connection.

 

[Natebishop3]

Why would we trade away our veteran PG if we're building a championship team? If that happens, its just proof that the Blazers are in "blow it up" mode.

Chalmers was a Pritchard choice b/c of the Kansas connection.

Orrrrr there's something else brewing...

 

[glazeduck]

Beasley scares the crap out of me. It's no secret he enjoys certain herbal medicines and nowhere (except Amsterdam perhaps) is grass more readily available, powerful, and accepted as Potland.

Bringing him in, to me, would smack much more of Darius Miles Part Deux than it would of Rasheed.

I think Beasley's immensely talented, and we've always wanted that kind of Shawn Marion type 3, but the whold weed thing, along with the 'nothing to do here' factor is enough for me to not want him.

That said, I suppose if he DOES come in and figure things out, it would help offset whatever amount of hype that Oden fails to live up to... I'd still rather have the TPE for another run at CP3...

 

[Nikolokolus]

Why would we trade away our veteran PG if we're building a championship team? If that happens, its just proof that the Blazers are in "blow it up" mode.

Chalmers was a Pritchard choice b/c of the Kansas connection.

It's NOT Miller for Chalmers ... it's primarily Chalmers and a first for Rudy. Andy Miller said he thinks it's unlikely that Andre would be part of any package deal with Miami and in that case it would really be Miller for Beasley.

 

[Natebishop3]

Beasley scares the crap out of me. It's no secret he enjoys certain herbal medicines and nowhere (except Amsterdam perhaps) is grass more readily available, powerful, and accepted as Potland.

Bringing him in, to me, would smack much more of Darius Miles Part Deux than it would of Rasheed.

I think Beasley's immensely talented, and we've always wanted that kind of Shawn Marion type 3, but the whold weed thing, along with the 'nothing to do here' factor is enough for me to not want him.

That said, I suppose if he DOES come in and figure things out, it would help offset whatever amount of hype that Oden fails to live up to... I'd still rather have the TPE for another run at CP3...

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to like the trade. Beasley strikes me as one of those guys who is very susceptible to his environment. Surrounded by the right group of guys, he could very easily turn his life around and mature into the player that everyone thought he was. We get Beasley and Chalmers for Rudy (who sucks ass right now) and Miller (who really only has a couple years left anyway). Plus we get the draft pick and the trade exception. I think it's a good trade. It's not a home run, but most trades aren't.

 

[Ed O]

A few thoughts:

1. I am not a fan of Chalmers. I think he's a decent backup PG, though, and having him compete for minutes behind a starting PG wouldn't be the worst thing ever. Getting him/his contract for Rudy might be a slight step down, but a future first may make it worth it. I'm 50/50 on that.

2. I don't see us having a lot of PGs. Miller and... who? Bayless, maybe. That's it. I don't think it's realistic to rely on Armon Johnson sticking on the roster, let alone playing a role in the rotation. Maybe, but not that likely, and certainly not something to rely upon or to not make moves because of.

3. Andre Miller is a pretty good player, but if we can get good value for him: great. We got him for free last year and acquiring a talented player like Beasley seems like good value. Beasley has put up a PER of over 16 at ages 20 and 21 while having reasonable dRatings. I'd be excited to add him to the Blazers and worry about getting a PG in another deal.

Ed O.

 

[THE HCP]

DON'T TRADE RUDY! He can help us more then Chalmers ever would.

 

[glazeduck]

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to like the trade. Beasley strikes me as one of those guys who is very susceptible to his environment. Surrounded by the right group of guys, he could very easily turn his life around and mature into the player that everyone thought he was. We get Beasley and Chalmers for Rudy (who sucks ass right now) and Miller (who really only has a couple years left anyway). Plus we get the draft pick and the trade exception. I think it's a good trade. It's not a home run, but most trades aren't.

If we DO bring in Beasley that would be FOUR lefties brought in in one offseason! I can't think that's ever happened before...

 

[Natebishop3]

A few thoughts:

1. I am not a fan of Chalmers. I think he's a decent backup PG, though, and having him compete for minutes behind a starting PG wouldn't be the worst thing ever. Getting him/his contract for Rudy might be a slight step down, but a future first may make it worth it. I'm 50/50 on that.

2. I don't see us having a lot of PGs. Miller and... who? Bayless, maybe. That's it. I don't think it's realistic to rely on Armon Johnson sticking on the roster, let alone playing a role in the rotation. Maybe, but not that likely, and certainly not something to rely upon or to not make moves because of.

3. Andre Miller is a pretty good player, but if we can get good value for him: great. We got him for free last year and acquiring a talented player like Beasley seems like good value. Beasley has put up a PER of over 16 at ages 20 and 21 while having reasonable dRatings. I'd be excited to add him to the Blazers and worry about getting a PG in another deal.

Ed O.

That's pretty much how I feel, and I'm a big fan of Miller.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

It's NOT Miller for Chalmers ... it's primarily Chalmers and a first for Rudy. Andy Miller said he thinks it's unlikely that Andre would be part of any package deal with Miami and in that case it would really be Miller for Beasley.

Don't really need Chalmers. Rudy will be better.