Merged: In 1993, Shaq grabbed 28 rebounds and blocked 15 shots in the same game?

[Nikolokolus]

Re: In 1993, Shaq grabbed 28 rebounds and blocked 15 shots in the same game?

Exactly. Shaq didn't have to have MF surgery. Don't you wish Oden didn't have to either? Don't you wish he was a healthy dominating rookie? It's not his fault obviously. But don't you wish we had gotten a rookie season from Oden like other dominating centers have done?

And? ...

We didn't, so move on I guess.

 

[KingSpeed]

Re: In 1993, Shaq grabbed 28 rebounds and blocked 15 shots in the same game?

You mean we aren't???

barfo

I think we still can because Roy has turned out to be better than advertised.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Re: In 1993, Shaq grabbed 28 rebounds and blocked 15 shots in the same game?

If Oden was dominating like those other centers, I don't know if Roy will be as effective as he has been to be honest.

 

[Natebishop3]

Re: Bill Simmons, the one-trick bitter douchebag

I don't know. He may be KG/Kobe/Dirk/Nash who started slow and won MVPs and sometimes championships or he might be the word no one wants to utter around here. It's frustrating. One thing is clear: this is not what any of us expected when we drafted him. No 07-08 season. 8/7/1 in 08-09 season. We all expected more but hardly anyone in here will ever confess to that.

People like Bill Simmons, Kenny Smith, and Barkley have no stake in Oden (not like we do) and they already seem to consider Oden a joke.

Ask yourself this:

Let's say we didn't make ANY pick in the 07 draft. So we're totally neutral. We still would've gone 41-41 last season and be on track to improve this season. Now let's pretend Oden went to the Celtics and they returned to the lotto last season and then struggled this season with a 8/7 season from Oden. What would you make of Oden??? What would be your opinion of the #1 pick?

Eric, I think we all see what you see, but we've also seen the flashes of potential. I've seen a kid who hasn't been able to really get back in shape. I see a guy who hasn't recaptured his athleticism that he once enjoyed. I'm waiting to see what he's like next season. When Oden has a full season under his belt, I'll be in a better position to assess where he is.

With that said, one minute you're talking about how Oden is better than Bynum, and now you're down on him again. I just wish you'd make up your mind.

 

[KingSpeed]

Re: In 1993, Shaq grabbed 28 rebounds and blocked 15 shots in the same game?

If Oden was dominating like those other centers, I don't know if Roy will be as effective as he has been to be honest.

Kobe and Shaq worked well together.

 

[KingSpeed]

Re: In 1993, Shaq grabbed 28 rebounds and blocked 15 shots in the same game?

this thread can be merged with the Bill Simmons thread; we're having the same conversation in two threads.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Re: In 1993, Shaq grabbed 28 rebounds and blocked 15 shots in the same game?

Kobe and Shaq worked well together.

Yeah, but Kobe's first years in the league weren't that great. He was hyped, but had that same deer in the headlights look and made mistakes like Oden did.

Should they have just given up on him by comparing his rookie year to Jordan or something?

 

[Minstrel]

Re: In 1993, Shaq grabbed 28 rebounds and blocked 15 shots in the same game?

this thread can be merged with the Bill Simmons thread; we're having the same conversation in two threads.

Sure.

 

[KingSpeed]

Re: Bill Simmons, the one-trick bitter douchebag

Eric, I think we all see what you see, but we've also seen the flashes of potential. I've seen a kid who hasn't been able to really get back in shape. I see a guy who hasn't recaptured his athleticism that he once enjoyed. I'm waiting to see what he's like next season. When Oden has a full season under his belt, I'll be in a better position to assess where he is.

With that said, one minute you're talking about how Oden is better than Bynum, and now you're down on him again. I just wish you'd make up your mind.

Oden is having a better playoffs than Bynum which isn't saying much at all. That doesn't make him Wilt Chamberlain. Roy, it turns out, though, IS Wilt Chamberlain!

http://sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140538

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Bill Simmons, the one-trick bitter douchebag

Oden is another victim of the hype machine. He has the chance to be a good player....but the "once in a generation center" hyperbole was just silly. Even without the knee injury, he wasn't going to live up to the outrageous hype of being another Russell or Chamberlain. The media set him up to fail, and is now having fun at his expense.

Of course, the "hype" came from all the NBA scouts. I know your scouting credentials are impeccable and if you aren't impressed by his rookie season, his chances of panning out are finished, but I think I may still wait and see.

 

[KingSpeed]

Re: In 1993, Shaq grabbed 28 rebounds and blocked 15 shots in the same game?

Yeah, but Kobe's first years in the league weren't that great. He was hyped, but had that same deer in the headlights look and made mistakes like Oden did.

Should they have just given up on him by comparing his rookie year to Jordan or something?

Fair point.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Re: In 1993, Shaq grabbed 28 rebounds and blocked 15 shots in the same game?

look at Kobe Bryant. http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/career_stats.html

He didn't even be a regular starter until his 3rd year in the league (Yes, I know he was straight from HS and younger than Greg). However, it just proves that it just takes time. We have that luxury. who cares.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Re: Bill Simmons, the one-trick bitter douchebag

I don't know. He may be KG/Kobe/Dirk/Nash who started slow and won MVPs and sometimes championships or he might be the word no one wants to utter around here. It's frustrating. One thing is clear: this is not what any of us expected when we drafted him. No 07-08 season. 8/7/1 in 08-09 season. We all expected more but hardly anyone in here will ever confess to that.

People like Bill Simmons, Kenny Smith, and Barkley have no stake in Oden (not like we do) and they already seem to consider Oden a joke.

Ask yourself this:

Let's say we didn't make ANY pick in the 07 draft. So we're totally neutral. We still would've gone 41-41 last season and be on track to improve this season. Now let's pretend Oden went to the Celtics and they returned to the lotto last season and then struggled this season with a 8/7 season from Oden. What would you make of Oden??? What would be your opinion of the #1 pick?

Why are you so caught up in what people think of Greg? I mean, do the things that people say have any bearing at all on whether or not Greg is going to end up a success or not?

If you've watched him play at all this year you know he's had an up and down season due to injuries and foul trouble, but when he's actually on the court he is a dominant rebounder, he is a large presence in the paint, and he does have the ability to back almost anyone down and dunk on them all the while posting an 18+ PER. Just let the fucking man play and judge him by what he does on the court in the next couple of years.

Investing so much of your energy into the ebb and flow of Greg's career as a Blazer can't be healthy; it's as if he's somehow robbed you of the right to post endless Oden>Shaq threads or something.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Re: In 1993, Shaq grabbed 28 rebounds and blocked 15 shots in the same game?

from what I've seen. once greg gets the ball more, he will be as deadly as prime-Shaq. He has that ability.

 

[KingSpeed]

Re: Bill Simmons, the one-trick bitter douchebag

Why are you so caught up in what people think of Greg? I mean, do the things that people say have any bearing at all on whether or not Greg is going to end up a success or not?

If you've watched him play at all this year..... :

Why do you say that? You know I've watched him play all fucking year.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: In 1993, Shaq grabbed 28 rebounds and blocked 15 shots in the same game?

from what I've seen. once greg gets the ball more, he will be as deadly as prime-Shaq. He has that ability.

I don't think he'll be quite as devastating on offense as Shaq. Shaq was near-30 PPG scorer. I see Oden in the 20-25 PPG range in his prime. But he'll be a much better defender than Shaq, I think.

 

[KingSpeed]

Re: In 1993, Shaq grabbed 28 rebounds and blocked 15 shots in the same game?

from what I've seen. once greg gets the ball more, he will be as deadly as prime-Shaq. He has that ability.

If all we had to do was give him the ball and he'd score 30 ppg on 55% shooting, we'd be giving him the fucking ball! He doesn't have that ability yet.

 

[andalusian]

Re: In 1993, Shaq grabbed 28 rebounds and blocked 15 shots in the same game?

What Oden clearly has - which we have not seen since prime time Shaq - is the ability to move just about anyone with his back to the rim. D-12 is more athletic and fast, Yao is taller - but Oden - even in limited minutes and inconsistent - is the only one that has that "I am going to back you down and there is nothing you can do about it" factor. He is still very raw and his shot is very flat - but there are sparks of greatness there.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Re: Bill Simmons, the one-trick bitter douchebag

Why do you say that? You know I've watched him play all fucking year.

I didn't mean you personally haven't watched him play, I meant more generally if anyone has watched him play this year. Bad phrasing on my part.

 

[KingSpeed]

Re: In 1993, Shaq grabbed 28 rebounds and blocked 15 shots in the same game?

I don't think he'll be quite as devastating on offense as Shaq. Shaq was near-30 PPG scorer. I see Oden in the 20-25 PPG range in his prime. But he'll be a much better defender than Shaq, I think.

You think?

 

[KingSpeed]

Re: Bill Simmons, the one-trick bitter douchebag

I didn't mean you personally haven't watched him play, I meant more generally if anyone has watched him play this year. Bad phrasing on my part.

no problem

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Re: In 1993, Shaq grabbed 28 rebounds and blocked 15 shots in the same game?

If all we had to do was give him the ball and he'd score 30 ppg on 55% shooting, we'd be giving him the fucking ball! He doesn't have that ability yet.

He will shortly. Its a combo of him being cautious on the knee (which is a sympton of almost all big men the year after the surgery) and his inexperience in the league and getting used to the game. After a summer of working out he's going to be a lot better and more confident. The offense will run through him. The blazers coaching staff just wants him to get his burn.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: In 1993, Shaq grabbed 28 rebounds and blocked 15 shots in the same game?

You think?

I think so. He has size no one can really deal with (except Shaq, who has huge size too), and if he regains the explosion he had prior to the surgery, as he's expected to, I think he'll be really hard for anyone to stop. I can't project anyone to score like Shaq did in his prime, because that was unreal, but I think Oden could be as tough to stop as a prime Duncan.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

I see someone still doesn't understand the magnitude of Greg having microfracture surgery, the recovery time, and the fact that Greg is adjusting to life as a rookie and as someone coming off microfracture.

 

[Natebishop3]

I see someone still doesn't understand the magnitude of Greg having microfracture surgery, the recovery time, and the fact that Greg is adjusting to life as a rookie and as someone coming off microfracture.

And just being out of shape. The guy is barely looking like he can run up and down the floor. That putback dunk was a glimpse of the old Greg.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

And just being out of shape. The guy is barely looking like he can run up and down the floor. That putback dunk was a glimpse of the old Greg.

I think he just runs odd to be honest. Kinda like how LaMarcus runs weird.

 

[Deebag]

Oden's ceiling is still as high as it was in his rookie season to me. I've seen nothing to prove otherwise. We'll pick up a veteran PG defender to play, the foul troubles will go away, and by his third year he'll be averaging 18/15/3.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Re: Bill Simmons, the one-trick bitter douchebag

Of course, the "hype" came from all the NBA scouts. I know your scouting credentials are impeccable and if you aren't impressed by his rookie season, his chances of panning out are finished, but I think I may still wait and see.

It has less to do with "scouting" than history. Real NBA scouting reports don't get made public. Most of what we hear about rookies are glorified advertisements, not honest evaluations. If an actual scout let leak the opinion that Rick Rubio will never be more than an average player, everyone from Stern to the TV executives would be pissing blood! Hype sells tickets.

And yes - I am a horrible cynic!

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Bill Simmons, the one-trick bitter douchebag

It has less to do with "scouting" than history. Real NBA scouting reports don't get made public. Most of what we hear about rookies are glorified advertisements, not honest evaluations. If an actual scout let leak the opinion that Rick Rubio will never be more than an average player, everyone from Stern to the TV executives would be pissing blood! Hype sells tickets.

Media don't get a cut of the tickets. If credible scouts had been saying "This Oden is overhyped and nothing special," plenty of reporters would have loved to report it. Having different information from everyone else is gold.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: In 1993, Shaq grabbed 28 rebounds and blocked 15 shots in the same game?

Exactly. Shaq didn't have to have MF surgery. Don't you wish Oden didn't have to either? Don't you wish he was a healthy dominating rookie? It's not his fault obviously. But don't you wish we had gotten a rookie season from Oden like other dominating centers have done?

Yeah, and I wish I had Bill Gates' money, Steve Hawking's brain and Brad Pitt's looks, too. But, the reality is I don't AND Greg Oden DID have microfracture knee surgery. We all have our fantasies, but at the end of the day, we need to accept reality for what it is, or we'll never be truly happy.

Honestly, I can't tell who you're more disappointed in, Oden for his "poor" rookie year, or yourself for having such unrealistic expectations.

BNM