Merged: Rudy For Wilson Chandler?

[Minstrel]

Re: Rudy For Wilson Chandler?

Chandler, on the other hand, is a bit younger, has had a far better season, and I would argue has more potential than Fernandez.

He had a slightly better season. He scored more, but on pretty ordinary efficiency which simply speaks to him shooting more. His PER was below average and only a tiny bit ahead of Rudy.

I'd probably rather have Chandler because he's younger, but Rudy's rookie season was significantly better than any season Chandler has had. So neither team would be getting a great deal. As a Portland fan, this deal wouldn't thrill me, but I'm ready to move on from Fernandez and Chandler seems close enough in value not to feel like a pure dumping of Rudy.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Re: Rudy For Wilson Chandler?

Would anyone claim LA "jumpshot is atrocious"? Because, .021% separates them.

That's effective field goal percentage which accounts for the fact that 3 point shots are 1.5 times more valuable than a two point shot. If Chandler didn't take those 2 and half 3 point attempts per game and hit a lousy 26% of them his eFG% would be even worse.

As for LMA, those long twos he takes are the worst shots in basketball, the fact that he hits them at around 46% makes it tolerable, but if he really wanted to add value to his game he'd just take the extra step back and shoot it from behind the arc.

 

[illmatic99]

What the hell would we do with Chandler? He's gonna be a RFA next summer, so he will want to play, and I don't want to play his one dimensional game over Nic's.

Unless we can move Chandler to a third team that can net us ~15th pick in next year's draft, I'm not interested.

 

[Reep]

FWIW, I haven't seen him play at all, but the somewhat old DraftExpress review doesn't sound too far off from where he is now:

Offense: Capable of putting up scoring numbers, but has yet to learn how to do so efficiently early on in his career. Relies extremely heavily on his jump-shot as his main source of production, but is not very consistent from beyond the arc just yet. Very solid from mid-range on the catch and shoot, but is extremely streaky from 3-point range and struggles pulling up off the dribble. Cannot create his own shot off the dribble, possesses a quick first step, but is a poor ball-handler, particularly with his left hand, and cannot change directions on his way to the basket. Does not get to the free throw line much at all. Terrific in the open floor, and is a fantastic finisher around the basket if he has space to operate. A good fit in Mike D’Antoni’s offense for that reason, especially if he can improve his perimeter jumper. Shows potential in that regard from time to time, but shot-selection and consistency still leave a lot to be desired. Decent passer and not too turnover prone. Would be wise to develop a back to the basket game, in order to take advantage of mismatches at the SF position.

Defense: Has phenomenal tools on this end of the floor, and is already used in a multitude of ways by Mike D’Antoni for this reason. Shows great potential as a one on one perimeter defender. Guards virtually every position from 1-4, can switch on screens with ease, and is quick enough to stay in front of almost all perimeter players. Terrific combination of wingspan and lateral quickness gives him the ability to sag off his matchup and tempt him to settle for long pull-up jumpers, being just long enough to still close out and get a hand in his face once he does. Seems to lose focus from time to time, getting out of his stance, showing poor awareness off the ball, and not always showing the same intensity. Teams like to post him up inside when presented with the opportunity to do so, and he struggles denying space in the paint and not being backed down. Could still stand to get tougher on this end of the floor, as well as add weight to his very promising frame. A good, but not great rebounder at the forward spot.

 

[illmatic99]

I didn't see much defense out of him whenever I watched NY. He looked like an Outlaw clone, with more slashing ability and a weaker J.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I just want to state for the record that I think a Rudy for Chandler swap would be a good one for Cho to take. He's not a floor spacer or a shooter, but for 10 or 15 minutes a night backing up Nic you could do a helluva lot worse, especially given his defensive potential.

 

[hasoos]

The main thing to remember is anybody coming out of the D'Antoni system will probably have their production cut in half on any other team. Take his numbers, cut them in half, and you have his production on a non D'Antoni system, roughly.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I just want to state for the record that I think a Rudy for Chandler swap would be a good one for Cho to take. He's not a floor spacer or a shooter, but for 10 or 15 minutes a night backing up Nic you could do a helluva lot worse, especially given his defensive potential.

Given who we have right now to potentially back up Nic (Dante, Babbit), is Chandler better than either or both at defense or offense? For 10-15 minutes a night, couldn't we situationally put either one of those two existing resources out on the floor?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Given who we have right now to potentially back up Nic (Dante, Babbit), is Chandler better than either or both at defense or offense? For 10-15 minutes a night, couldn't we situationally put either one of those two existing resources out on the floor?

I still don't really see Dante as a three I guess, and Babbitt looks to be pretty far away from being able to play from a defensive POV. Worst case scenario, Chandler is a movable, trade-able expiring contract, and presumably he won't threaten to "return" to Europe if he doesn't get his way.

 

[illmatic99]

Oh, and we'd have to throw in about $400k more salary to get it to work.

Rudy and Pendy/Dante for Chandler would work.

 

[Tom Cruise]

Is Cho really waiting for a better offer then Chandler. What exactly are we hoping to get thats better.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Is Cho really waiting for a better offer then Chandler. What exactly are we hoping to get thats better.

NY's first round draft pick? Even lotto protected, we'd have a top 5 pick in three years.

 

[Sug]

I heard when Miller called Rich to talk about the situation, all Rich did was say,"This is Not Cho decision" and hung up the phone.

 

[Masbee]

Chandler isn't that exciting a player. He is young and could yet improve, but I don't know much about his potential.

I can see from the stats that he is not a shooter, he is not a playmaker, he is not a defender, he is not a good rebounder. Looks like a bench player that doesn't bring much this team needs right now.

I think I would rather have a first round pick than trade two players for Chandler.

 

[ironcrotch]

NY's first round draft pick? Even lotto protected, we'd have a top 5 pick in three years.

NY has no first round picks to give.

 

[andalusian]

I heard when Miller called Rich to talk about the situation, all Rich did was say,"This is Not Cho decision" and hung up the phone.

That's funny, for Chor.

 

[hasoos]

That's funny, for Chor.

Right after that, he probably dug into an order of NaCHO's.

 

[Entity]

Eh, whatever. Remove the cancer.

 

[Tom Cruise]

NY's first round draft pick? Even lotto protected, we'd have a top 5 pick in three years.

Thats what I would guess but that seems a bit much for Rudy even if we throw in our 1st. I think hes overvaluing Rudy and its costing us in the end.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I thought Rudy wasn't coming back to the NBA . . . wasn't the agent last seen screaming this from the rooftops.

 

[Mr. J]

Re: Rudy For Wilson Chandler?

Oh ok then... Jesus

lol, I believe him though.

 

[HailBlazers]

I thought Rudy wasn't coming back to the NBA . . . wasn't the agent last seen screaming this from the rooftops.

Andy Miller, what a tool

 

[Mr. J]

Re: Rudy For Wilson Chandler?

He had a slightly better season. He scored more, but on pretty ordinary efficiency which simply speaks to him shooting more. His PER was below average and only a tiny bit ahead of Rudy.

I'd probably rather have Chandler because he's younger, but Rudy's rookie season was significantly better than any season Chandler has had. So neither team would be getting a great deal. As a Portland fan, this deal wouldn't thrill me, but I'm ready to move on from Fernandez and Chandler seems close enough in value not to feel like a pure dumping of Rudy.

PER doesn't tell the full story. For example, it doesn't account for Chandler being a much better defender than Fernandez. It also doesn't account for the fact that Rudy has better players creating for him and less defensive attention. Also how was Rudy's rookie season significantly better than Chandler's last season?

For a player who played lackluster ball last year, and is known to have demanded a trade, getting back Chandler seems like a great move for Portland. Better than any other trade, it seems.

 

[Mr. J]

Re: Rudy For Wilson Chandler?

That's effective field goal percentage which accounts for the fact that 3 point shots are 1.5 times more valuable than a two point shot. If Chandler didn't take those 2 and half 3 point attempts per game and hit a lousy 26% of them his eFG% would be even worse.

As for LMA, those long twos he takes are the worst shots in basketball, the fact that he hits them at around 46% makes it tolerable, but if he really wanted to add value to his game he'd just take the extra step back and shoot it from behind the arc.

From midrange, Chandler is actually pretty solid. His three-point shot is shaky though.

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

I still don't really see Dante as a three I guess, and Babbitt looks to be pretty far away from being able to play from a defensive POV. Worst case scenario, Chandler is a movable, trade-able expiring contract, and presumably he won't threaten to "return" to Europe if he doesn't get his way.

I'm with ya on this one!

I don't see Dante as a three either. And Chandler backing up Nic is far better than hoping Babbitt can step in each night. And if Chandler's contract is an expiring one, why are we even waiting to pull this trigger?

Make the trade!

 

[Masbee]

Re: Rudy For Wilson Chandler?

For a player who played lackluster ball last year, and is known to have demanded a trade, getting back Chandler seems like a great move for Portland. Better than any other trade, it seems.

I guess I will have to take your word for it about his defense. The advanced stats don't indicate Chandler is a good defender, but on a bad team, coached by a no-defense coach, I will concede it would be hard to tell if Chandler is now or could ever be a good defender on a different team.

As for Chandler to Portland, as I posted above, I just don't much benefit in Chandler on the Blazers other than Depth. He doesn't seem the type of player we need right now.

A team could always use a lock-down defender - Chandler is not that.
The Blazers could use a great shooter to help spread the floor - that was Rudy's role after all. Chandler is not that. Not even close.
The Blazers could always use a backup that maybe isn't great at anything but is decent at most things, sorta like Matthews. But, Chandler is not a good rebounder, doesn't create, poor shooter. Too many holes in his game. I don't think he is a good fit for Portland right now.

 

[Mr. J]

Re: Rudy For Wilson Chandler?

I guess I will have to take your word for it about his defense. The advanced stats don't indicate Chandler is a good defender, but on a bad team, coached by a no-defense coach, I will concede it would be hard to tell if Chandler is now or could ever be a good defender on a different team.

As for Chandler to Portland, as I posted above, I just don't much benefit in Chandler on the Blazers other than Depth. He doesn't seem the type of player we need right now.

A team could always use a lock-down defender - Chandler is not that.
The Blazers could use a great shooter to help spread the floor - that was Rudy's role after all. Chandler is not that. Not even close.
The Blazers could always use a backup that maybe isn't great at anything but is decent at most things, sorta like Matthews. But, Chandler is not a good rebounder, doesn't create, poor shooter. Too many holes in his game. I don't think he is a good fit for Portland right now.

You guessed right. The Knicks were simply a horrible defensive team overall. You would have to watch Chandler to get an accurate assessment of his defense. I also wouldn't say that Chandler is a poor rebounder. Playing alongside Lee, Chandler's rebounding numbers are bound to take a hit.

But I understand not wanting Chandler because he isn't an ideal fit in Portland. I just think Chandler has more value since Rudy wants to be traded and he had a lackluster season.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

In terms of development, If Rudy had the minutes and touches that Chandler got you wouldn't even think of trading Rudy for Chandler.

Color me extremely unimpressed with Wilson Chandler. On top of that, he makes no sense for this roster.

 

[axs88]

In terms of development, If Rudy had the minutes and touches that Chandler got you wouldn't even think of trading Rudy for Chandler.

Color me extremely unimpressed with Wilson Chandler. On top of that, he makes no sense for this roster.

Do I remember wrong that you were advocating trading for him a while back? Maybe that was someone else.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Rudy For Wilson Chandler?

PER doesn't tell the full story. For example, it doesn't account for Chandler being a much better defender than Fernandez. It also doesn't account for the fact that Rudy has better players creating for him and less defensive attention. Also how was Rudy's rookie season significantly better than Chandler's last season?

The problem is that a metric like Defense Rating doesn't suggest that Chandler's defense is particularly good. Some of that could be blamed on New York just being a bad defensive team...but it's far from clear that Chandler is a defensive asset.

As for whether Fernandez's rookie season was significantly better than Chandler's last season, by PER it was. That is certainly not conclusive, but it doesn't suggest that Chandler is a tremendous asset. Not that I think Rudy is either. Rudy has a number of talents that are undermined by his major flaw: lack of a good handle. My opinion is that Rudy is probably a more "talented" player but, at this point, not necessarily a more effective one. Whether a new coach and system can leverage that talent...I don't know.

For a player who played lackluster ball last year, and is known to have demanded a trade, getting back Chandler seems like a great move for Portland. Better than any other trade, it seems.

It's a decent move. I don't consider him a starter-quality player, but swapping out a bench player who doesn't want to be here for a bench player who does can't hurt. And if his defense actually is really good, or becomes really good, it'll be a good pick up. But Chandler becomes a free agent after this coming season, doesn't he? So if he has a good season, he's due to become considerably more expensive.

I guess my point is that I don't think Chandler is absurdly more valuable. I think I'd prefer to have him than Rudy, at this point, but it feels closer to "six of one, half a dozen of the other" as opposed to a steal.