Merged: Who would you give up for Paul George?

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BonesJones said:
Alright, I'm fully on the trade for George bandwagon.

Taking a risk like this is the only way we'll ever contend. It's about time to.
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Lillard McCollum George A. Johnson Nurkic

Lillard McCollum George Randolph Nurkic
 
If the Blazers are trading all of those picks plus a couple of young players (I'd keep Vonleh) you better be sure of a couple of things:

  • George is okay with it not being his team and fitting in as a piece and not the star
  • He is willing to re-sign here instead of it being a 1-year rental and then bolting to the Lakers
  • That Paul Allen is okay paying the Luxury tax because re-signing George and then Nurkic will cost a fortune
 
TBpup said:
If the Blazers are trading all of those picks plus a couple of young players (I'd keep Vonleh) you better be sure of a couple of things:

  • George is okay with it not being his team and fitting in as a piece and not the star
  • He is willing to re-sign here instead of it being a 1-year rental and then bolting to the Lakers
  • That Paul Allen is okay paying the Luxury tax because re-signing George and then Nurkic will cost a fortune
Click to expand...

If George wants to win, it will likely have to be at a team that has other stars and cannot necessarily make him number one. He'd not be a piece here though, he'd be a start. He'd immediately be our best or second best player and could co-exist next to Lillard and CJ.

We cannot be 100% sure he will re-sign. The only reason why we might be able to get him for low price is because his contract is running up next Summer. I was also of the opinion that he would bolt to Lakers next season but now that I have come to think about this, I am not sure anymore. He would not win anything with Lakers, their success window is probably 3-5 years away comfortably and by that time he'll already be 32 and probably pushed back by Ingram or Ball. His best years will be next 2-3, and Portland are in a better position for the meantime.

As for Luxury tax, we will have commited $50M to CJ and Dame, and Nurkic will cost $20M - $22M next year. That leaves us is with ca. $40M cap next season, but luxury tax will probably be ca. $125M - $130M, right? Then commiting ca. $75M to CJ and Dame, and then another $30M to George takes you to $105M. It's very hard to build anything with the remaining $35M so we'd probably need to surround them with several rookies and cheap contracts/veteran deals. Realistically you should not have more than 3 stars in your team, as I said before the only reason why Warriors make it work with 4 is because at the time of Durant signing their big 3 were still not making that much. Curry will get $30M this year, Durant will get $30M too but Draymond is still on ca. $16M until 2020 and Thompson on $18M until 2019. After 2020 they won't all be at Warriors anyway. We don't have that luxury because at the time of re-signing George and Nurkic, Dame and Lillard will already be on massive deals.
 
Of course George will be a star. What the post said was, he has to be okay with not being THE star.
 
Cippy91 said:
Feel like Boston has the advantage here in the Paul George situation
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Why would Boston trade their #1 pick for a possible rental of a player who has said publicly that he wants to join their rival?
 
Minstrel said:
They can if they're willing to pay crazy amounts of luxury tax. The Nets owner briefly flirted with that, then quickly gave up. Of course, that was for a mediocre team. It might be something the owners are willing to do for what has the potential to be a dynasty.

I think it's a different situation again for the Blazers. Depending on how this post-season goes, the Warriors will likely know that this is a championship core. Paying nearly as much for a core (in Lillard/McCollum/George/Nurkic) that could plausibly never win a single title (because of the Warriors, largely) would be a much harder call to make.
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I really don't know what people are talking about. I know the Warriors have who they have and have dominated. But don't act like we haven't seen weakness in them. Don't act like we didn't give them hell last season in the playoffs. Don't act like if we don't add Paul George that they would have to fucking finally play defense on actual Stars. If we had Paul George I think our big four can contend with their big four.

Dame/CJ/Nurk/PG13 < Curry/Slim/Jon B/Shrek's Donkey

Only slightly because IMHO They have no one to guard the guy who once created a new species of fish when a masturbated into the toilet.
 
Mediocre Man said:
I'm torn on if George would fit, or if a 3 and D guy would be better
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I am told by Laker fans that he is a very good defensive player. If true he would be the ultimate 3 and D guy. Albeit a rather expensive one.
 
I wonder when and if KP will float some trade rumors about George in order to drive up his value. If you are the Lakers do you feel good about your chances landing him after next year in free agency , or do you start to panic and offer a package to Indiana now? I doubt Magic would give up the #2 pick since they need a upgrade at point guard badly, but since Ingram plays the same position as George he would be a good center piece in the trade. Add Clarkson or D'Angelo Russell......

Indiana would have to really like Ingram to take that trade IMO.
 
Mediocre Man said:
I'm torn on if George would fit, or if a 3 and D guy would be better
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I don't see green font, so I assume this is a real question--as I think it should be. Nobody could argue that PG isn't a fantastic player, but we have a very small sample size of this team with Nurkic playing. Is there a chance that having another somewhat ball dominant player could upset chemistry? I guess I would take the chance because I see it as the only way for this team to really compete. But, PG has a usage that floats around 30%. Lillard's is 31.5 the last two seasons. CJ is steady at 27. Nurk was 26%. Does everyone give up some shots?

Let's say the team plays similar to the last two seasons. You can give all of Crabbe and Aminu's shots to PG and that seems to close the gap some.
 
I think PG would find a nice home here playing with Dame, CJ and Nurk. KD announced he's staying with the Worriers.



There where rumors he might be a one year rental and questions about how he'd fit before he signed with GS. You gotta take the chance at some point.
 
BigGameDamian said:
I think PG would find a nice home here playing with Dame, CJ and Nurk. KD announced he's staying with the Worriers.

There where rumors he might be a one year rental and questions about how he'd fit before he signed with GS. You gotta take the chance at some point.
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I think you are right. The key for me is how close are Dame and Paul George? Who was the all star a few years ago who said he would like to play with Dame? Wasn't it PG?

If Dame feels like we have a chance to resign him, and George's agent say we have a decent shot....I would gladly give up our 3 picks and roll the dice.
Dame, CJ. PG, Nurk and Vonleh is a good starting line up.
 
The real question in this scenario is why would George leave a contender while also taking a paycut? To play in LA? If he did that he'd have to have zero competitive drive in him. It'd be worse than when Aldridge went home. I don't think he's that type of guy. as for other teams, who could even match up with Portland on paper that also would have a realistic shot of signing him? Portland isn't LA, but it's still the west coast. It's a two and a half hour flight. I live in San Diego and it takes me that long to get to Los Angeles with a car. Portland is pretty conveniently close for a multi millionaire.

I see this as an opportunity where everything lines up favorably for Portland. The only question to me is Indiana's motivation to actually trade George.
 
Mediocre Man said:
I'm torn on if George would fit, or if a 3 and D guy would be better
Click to expand...

How are those two things different?

Paul George has made 1st or 2nd team All Defense three times.

The last two season's he's shot .371 and .393 from 3-point range. And that's not a small sample size. He was 6th (210) and 12th (195) in the league in made 3-pointers those two seasons.

I think our collective frame of reference for a 3 and D guy is pre-injury Wes Matthews. Wes' last two seasons in POR, he made 201 and 173 3-pointers on .393 and .389 3FG%. So, in terms of 3-point shooting, Wes and PG13 are pretty comparable.

As much as we loved watching Wes shut down James Harden during that POR vs. HOU series, Wes has never made a single first or second All Defensive team, or received a single DPOY vote (George has been top 8 and DPOY voting twice).

And, of course, George does most other things better than Wes. He's a No. 1 option who can create his own shot and has averaged over 23 ppg the last two seasons. George is a much better rebounder, a much better passer and gets a lot more steals. He's just flat out a better all around player, which is no surprise. Wes, especially pre-injury, is the prototypical 3 and D player, but he's a role player, a damn good one, but still a role player. Paul George is a star.

Are you saying you'd rather add a role player than a star? Someone who doesn't demand the ball as much, who is a solid 3rd or 4th option, rather than a 1b option to Dame's 1a? If so, can you give examples of 3 and D guys you'd like us to target?

Are you worried about fit? There were similar concerns from a few people about how Durant would fit in with Curry, but that all sees, to have worked out nicely.

BNM
 
Scalma said:
The real question in this scenario is why would George leave a contender while also taking a paycut? To play in LA? If he did that he'd have to have zero competitive drive in him. It'd be worse than when Aldridge went home. I don't think he's that type of guy. as for other teams, who could even match up with Portland on paper that also would have a realistic shot of signing him?

I see this as an opportunity where everything lines up favorably for Portland. The only question to me is Indiana's motivation to actually trade George.
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I think a player or 2 plus 3 first round draft picks (or something better from another team) should be enough motivation. Unless they really think they can resign him as well.

I think you are right, this seems like a good opportunity for us.
KP loves draft picks, Portland has multiple 1st round draft picks.....
Will his past relationship with PA be a negative factor? I doubt it because in his mind he will be helping the Pacers move forward while Cleveland is dominating the East. And trading PG to the west won't hurt either.
 
Scalma said:
The real question in this scenario is why would George leave a contender while also taking a paycut? To play in LA? If he did that he'd have to have zero competitive drive in him. It'd be worse than when Aldridge went home. I don't think he's that type of guy. as for other teams, who could even match up with Portland on paper that also would have a realistic shot of signing him? Portland isn't LA, but it's still the west coast. It's a two and a half hour flight. I live in San Diego and it takes me that long to get to Los Angeles with a car. Portland is pretty conveniently close for a multi millionaire.

I see this as an opportunity where everything lines up favorably for Portland. The only question to me is Indiana's motivation to actually trade George.
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They definitely want to trade him. He wants to play for a winner and that won't be IND. If they don't trade him, there is a very good chance they will lose him for nothing - especially if he doesn't qualify for the super max next summer.

IND needs to tear it down and rebuild and Paul George is, by far, their biggest asset to help jump start that rebuild. They will trade him and it will be a bidding war. The real question is who will submit the best offer. BOS has the most assets, but Ainge has been adamant about holding onto those assets. Other teams like MIN or PHI can offer young assets, but won't. They are building to the future, not in win now mode. The Lakers have a lot of recent high lottery picks (Randle, Russell and Ingram) and the second pick in the draft, but none of those three has broken out and they are also not in won now mode. Would they be dumb enough to mortgage their future to land Paul George and surround him with a bunch of crap and still likely continue to miss the playoffs in the West?

I think, with three picks in this very deep draft, and several players 25 and younger (even if some of them are vastly overpaid - we have to match George's contract, so that will require at least one massive, or two medium to large contracts anyway), we are positioned well to make a serious run at PG13, if that's what Paul and Neil decide they ant to do.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
They definitely want to trade him. He wants to play for a winner and that won't be IND. If they don't trade him, there is a very good chance they will lose him for nothing - especially if he doesn't qualify for the super max next summer.

IND needs to tear it down and rebuild and Paul George is, by far, their biggest asset to help jump start that rebuild. They will trade him and it will be a bidding war. The real question is who will submit the best offer. BOS has the most assets, but Ainge has been adamant about holding onto those assets. Other teams like MIN or PHI can offer young assets, but won't. They are building to the future, not in win now mode. The Lakers have a lot of recent high lottery picks (Randle, Russell and Ingram) and the second pick in the draft, but none of those three has broken out and they are also not in won now mode. Would they be dumb enough to mortgage their future to land Paul George and surround him with a bunch of crap and still likely continue to miss the playoffs in the West?

I think, with three picks in this very deep draft, and several players 25 and younger (even if some of them are vastly overpaid - we have to match George's contract, so that will require at least one massive, or two medium to large contracts anyway), we are positioned well to make a serious run at PG13, if that's what Paul and Neil decide they ant to do.

BNM
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I agree, and at some point we're going to have to either go for it, or tear it down again. Georges career timeline pretty much matches up with Dame and the rest of the team. Blazers would instantly become a real contender. Olshey has to at least try.
 
The Pacer's roster is not in good shape: http://www.espn.com/nba/team/depth/_/name/ind/indiana-pacers

They need an overhaul. Multiple picks and multiple players would help. The Lakers and or Boston could easily get him with their first round picks and flexible cap space. But would either offer up those picks? I doubt Magic would. But if I am Boston I probably would unless I think Fultz will be a super star.

The Lakers really don't have much to offer but the pick unless Ingram is ready to bust out in his 2nd year. But how would KP know that for sure.
 
Scalma said:
I agree, and at some point we're going to have to either go for it, or tear it down again. Georges career timeline pretty much matches up with Dame and the rest of the team. Blazers would instantly become a real contender. Olshey has to at least try.
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Yep, there was a time when you could build a contender around a single star. Then came the time when you needed to add a second star (Scottie Pippen to Michael Jordan). Then LeBron went to MIA and everyone tried to match their Big 3. Now with Durant in GSW, you need a Big 4 to compete. Dame + PG13 + C.J. + Nurk is our best chance at assembling a Big 4 anytime soon.

George's situation in IND, plus the Nurk trade and Neil's accumulation of 1st round picks in a very deep draft has created a unique opportunity for us to add that missing 4th piece. It may not be a sure thing, but it's the closest thing to a sure thing we will see anytime soon. I hope Neil and Paul go all in and do everything they can to land, and keep Paul George.

BNM
 
Pinwheel1 said:
The Pacer's roster is not in good shape: http://www.espn.com/nba/team/depth/_/name/ind/indiana-pacers

They need an overhaul. Multiple picks and multiple players would help. The Lakers and or Boston could easily get him with their first round picks and flexible cap space. But would either offer up those picks? I doubt Magic would. But if I am Boston I probably would unless I think Fultz will be a super star.

The Lakers really don't have much to offer but the pick unless Ingram is ready to bust out in his 2nd year. But how would KP know that for sure.
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Ingram had an absolutely atrocious rookie year. In terms of production he was the worst player on the second worst team in the conference. He is still ridiculously young. So, it too soon to label him a bust, but his rookie season showed just how far away he is from being able to compete at the NBA level.

BNM
 
IND goes young

4 firsts + Harkless/crabbe + Vonleh

I think that's pretty enticing and it is the best we can do without dame or cj being involved...
If there isn't a top 3 pick on the table I think there is a foundation for a deal here. Nobody wants crabbe unless there is no other option so he'll probably only be able to go to BRK obviously.

Crabbe + future Second to BRK for Booker

DL/bazz
CJ/turner/Patty
PG/turner/Layman
Booker/Aminu/davis
Nurk/Davis/Literally any other human on the planet or off of it/Meyers
 
chzbrgr said:
IND goes young

4 firsts + Harkless/crabbe + Vonleh

I think that's pretty enticing and it is the best we can do without dame or cj being involved...
If there isn't a top 3 pick on the table I think there is a foundation for a deal here. Nobody wants crabbe unless there is no other option so he'll probably only be able to go to BRK obviously.

Crabbe + future Second to BRK for Booker

DL/bazz
CJ/turner/Patty
PG/turner/Layman
Booker/Aminu/davis
Nurk/Davis/Literally any other human on the planet or off of it/Meyers
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I actually think BRK has lost interest in Crabbe. After not seeing any improvement in other areas of his game, they are probably relieved Olshey matched their offer sheet and will look for a much cheaper 3-point specialist elsewhere. I know I would.

I'd push hard to send him to IND in any PG13 trade. His salary matches George's current salary. Then we include some other younger pieces (Harkless, being the most obvious) and try to get Thad Young included, or at the very least take back Big Al (swapping Meyers for him would be perfect - if IND would do it).

They seem to have enough pieces over 27 that fit our needs (PG13, of course, Thad Young as a starting 4 or back up 4/3 and Big Al as a back up 5), and we have all those draft picks, plus an abundance of guys 25 and younger who match contracts with their guys 27 and older. Other than the draft picks and PG13, we'd be swapping our young guys on big contracts for their old guys on big contracts. It makes sense since they would be in total rebuild mode and we would be in win now (or at least win soon) mode.

I'd prefer to keep Vonleh, if possible. So, ship them 3 (or 4) 1st round picks + Crabbe + Harkless + Leonard for PG13 + Thad Young + Big Al (or some subset of this) so that we end up with something like:

Dame/Bazz
C.J./Turner/Patty Baseball
PG13/Turner/Young
Vonleh/Young (or vise versa)
Nurk/Big Al

That still leaves us with Aminu and Davis on team friendly contracts that we could either keep, or move, as we see fit.

BNM
 
Dear Aaron Mintz, NBA Agent,
We agreed to give $$$$$ to your clients Crabbe and Biebs last offseason. The problem is that there's really not enough PT for them to spread their wings here. So,
I have an offer for you. You convince Indy to take your clients Crabbe and Biebs in addition to the valued Mo Harkless, our 2 highest draft picks this
year, and a 2019 1st rounder for Paul George. Crabbe and Biebs get a chance to play extended minutes, Paul George gets a chance to play for a contender.
In addition, we will agree to take your rookie client Jordan Bell (whose slated to go in the second round) in the first round giving him a guaranteed contract.
It's a win-win-win for all of your clients, you, us and Indy!

Sincerely,
The soccer moms at s2
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Dear Aaron Mintz, NBA Agent,
We agreed to give $$$$$ to your clients Crabbe and Biebs last offseason. The problem is that there's really not enough PT for them to spread their wings here. So,
I have an offer for you. You convince Indy to take your clients Crabbe and Biebs in addition to the valued Mo Harkless, our 2 highest draft picks this
year, and a 2019 1st rounder for Paul George. Crabbe and Biebs get a chance to play extended minutes, Paul George gets a chance to play for a contender.
In addition, we will agree to take your rookie client Jordan Bell (whose slated to go in the second round) in the first round giving him a guaranteed contract.
It's a win-win-win for all of your clients, you, us and Indy!

Sincerely,
The soccer moms at s2
Click to expand...

Someone needs to get Aaron Mintz' email address!

But please, change Biebs to Meyers Legend. It's both more convincing and more respectful of his client (even if not accurate).

BNM
 
SwissBlazer said:
Never heard of this guy. How legitimate is he ?
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He's just speculating. As in: "Surely" the Blazers have offered (the kitchen sink)...Right? Right?

Edit: NM I didn't realize how late I was to the party...LOL

:cheers:
 
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