Politics Mexico Officially NOT Paying For The Wall

[andalusian]

 

[Cippy91]

I always thought this wall idea was stupid in general. Never and still don't think it will happen. Too crazy

 

[Lanny]

I always thought this wall idea was stupid in general. Never and still don't think it will happen. Too crazy

Very very expensive, too.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Very very expensive, too.

If it addressed the real problem it would be worth it. Things left as they are it won't help shit.

 

[MarAzul]

If it addressed the real problem it would be worth it. Things left as they are it won't help shit.

I always viewed it as getting control of the boarder and who comes through. Seems pretty important to me.
So what is the real problem?

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I always viewed it as getting control of the boarder and who comes through. Seems pretty important to me.
So what is the real problem?

The attraction of jobs and services. People can fly here and just stay. The wall would deter some but not Chinese people flying here to give birth to an American.

Make employers pay for hiring illegal aliens and taking advantage of them while simultaneously depressing legal workers wages.

If farmers can't find enough workers make it easier to get visas to bring in NECESSARY workers.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[MarAzul]

Make employers pay for hiring illegal aliens

depressing legal workers wages.

If farmers can't find enough workers make it easier to get visas to bring in NECESSARY workers.

There is no real way for employers to determine someone is here illegally. Their numbers do at some point depress the wages, even the farm workers. Perhaps they are the people being held back most often. Along with the farmer that employees them. That interface with the modern urban and the farm is clear and in plane view
here on the Oxnard plain, where the farm land is a jagged line block by block around the perimeter to the city. Designated farm land this side of the street, city on the other. Which street is the boundary changes here and there by the vote of the controllers not the farmers. The land is always sold to someone before the boundary changes, but the farmer does not decide when to make the change other than to sell the land when the offer is presented. Nor does he determine the wage of the workers. He is told what the wage must be to have a crew show up, where ever they came from.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

There is no real way for employers to determine someone is here illegally. Their numbers do at some point depress the wages, even the farm workers. Perhaps they are the people being held back most often. Along with the farmer that employees them. That interface with the modern urban and the farm is clear and in plane view
here on the Oxnard plain, where the farm land is a jagged line block by block around the perimeter to the city. Designated farm land this side of the street, city on the other. Which street is the boundary changes here and there by the vote of the controllers not the farmers. The land is always sold to someone before the boundary changes, but the farmer does not decide when to make the change other than to sell the land when the offer is presented. Nor does he determine the wage of the workers. He is told what the wage must be to have a crew show up, where ever they came from.

My former employer apparently got scared after the 7/11 convenience stores got raided and audited all of their employees files and found two guys with fake documents and let them go.

They can use ...https://www.uscis.gov/e-verify

 

[MarAzul]

My former employer apparently got scared after the 7/11 convenience stores got raided and audited all of their employees files and found two guys with fake documents and let them go.

They can use ...https://www.uscis.gov/e-verify

I drove by a field last Friday, vehicles lining both sides of the road. About 500 workers out in the field that lay between that street and the developed city on the next street over. No way that farmer can run every dang worker in that field that day through that website and check the documents.

When you think about it, it is bullshit anyway, to put that off on employers. People trying to do business have enough legitimate things to manage without doing the the government immigration enforcement job too. You know he/she would not be allowed to profile people and only run the "probable" suspects through the check.

Even then, that is not how it works. Those crews are sent to the farmer by the crew boss, he has no idea who the hell they are. He just hires the contractor. The contractor is controlled by no one, that anyone knows of for sure.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I drove by a field last Friday, vehicles lining both sides of the road. About 500 workers out in the field that lay between that street and the developed city on the next street over. No way that farmer can run every dang worker in that field that day through that website and check the documents.

When you think about it, it is bullshit anyway, to put that off on employers. People trying to do business have enough legitimate things to manage without doing the the government immigration enforcement job too. You know he/she would not be allowed to profile people and only run the "probable" suspects through the check.

Even then, that is not how it works. Those crews are sent to the farmer by the crew boss, he has no idea who the hell they are. He just hires the contractor. The contractor is controlled by no one, that anyone knows of for sure.

It may be slightly hypocritical but I don't really care about the farms. Those are the jobs everyone says no Americans want anyway so..

An office worker or any other 9-5 regular job where people have full time employment with benefits should be easy enough to comply with it.

 

[MarAzul]

An office worker or any other 9-5 regular job where people have full time employment with benefits should be easy enough to comply with it.

Yeah, perhaps you are right. But I still think it is the immigration enforcement job to make sure the people hiring out here, belong here, not the people doing the hiring. Having the employers enforce immigration law, is just putting another hurdle in they way to trip over. If you want them to hire everyone fair and equally race wise, having them look for illegals fairly and equally is unreasonable. That is a reasonable function of the government to insure the work force belongs here.

 

[Lanny]

It may be slightly hypocritical but I don't really care about the farms. Those are the jobs everyone says no Americans want anyway so..

An office worker or any other 9-5 regular job where people have full time employment with benefits should be easy enough to comply with it.

I ran into an old college buddy of mine probably about 20 years ago. He was managing a farm somewhere in central Washington. All of his laborers were from Mexico. Not some of them but all of them.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I ran into an old college buddy of mine probably about 20 years ago. He was managing a farm somewhere in central Washington. All of his laborers were from Mexico. Not some of them but all of them.

They have visas for the workers. I recall it being a pain for the farms because of the rules and how they had to predict the number of workers. If so, make it easier

 

[SlyPokerDog]

There is no real way for employers to determine someone is here illegally.

It's always weird to see Marzul go full liberal, "I can't do anything for myself, I need the guberment to do it for me."

If you don't want to hire illegals you use e-verify.

If you don't want to support businesses that hire illegals you ask them if they use e-verify and tell them to put it in writing.

Try finding a landscape company that doesn't use illegals.

Try finding a roofing company that doesn't use illegals.

Ask your state representative to write legislation that requires landlords to use e-verify on all tenants.

Want to fight illegal immigration, take away jobs and a place to live.

 

[MarAzul]

It's always weird to see Marzul go full liberal, "I can't do anything for myself, I need the guberment to do it for me."

If you don't want to hire illegals you use e-verify.

If you don't want to support businesses that hire illegals you ask them if they use e-verify and tell them to put it in writing.

Try finding a landscape company that doesn't use illegals.

Try finding a roofing company that doesn't use illegals.

Ask your state representative to write legislation that requires landlords to use e-verify on all tenants.

Want to fight illegal immigration, take away jobs and a place to live.

I do not agree dog. It is the governments job to determine and enforce who lives here, who the workers are. An employer should not be required to spend time energy and money on what the government should have already done. An employer spends effort and time finding a qualified person that has the knowledge need and has the health for the job at hand. If you want them to do this without regard for other attributes that come along with humans, then do not make the employers also responsible for who is here legal.

Without the government doing the job, some areas get so skewed to the point where the employers must require skills that probably only come with likely illegals.
Like Spanish language is a must to work in a store in some areas. This area I am in right now, 30,000 immigrants came in 98, 99. 35,000 more came in 2009, 2010. They don't build more houses here because they do not want to give up the farmland, and they do not have the water anyway. So the density of the number of people per house in some areas rises big time. School funding formulas no longer work, schools are over run. The shock to the city, cause all sorts of odd change. Business became non viable because of the population demographic shift. The doors closed. Replace by other business for sure, like the Radio Shake, there were three here, now Pandoria, Restaurant, and Mercado. Frys is a ghost store, I think they tried, signs are in Spanish, Spanish speakers for help, but no one really know shit. Shelves full of stuff, impossible to find anything specific, such as an antenna in the 1700-2100Mhz range. Blank looks only. A lot of shit there but no index, no catalog.

Then take the position the farmers are in. The city is right up against their fields, the authorities dictate, their land can only be used for farming. The only business they can use it for. The want to build their own coop to do the processing, but where? Can't do it on the farmland and everywhere else is full, high density dwelling space is a premium and already zoned. So they must ship produce out for processing at someone else price. So the net is, the system controls the guys business in reality, and you want him to vet the labor force for only Americans? There aren't any looking for a job in the volume needed for short periods. So this guy hires a contractor who rounds up the crew for a price dictated to the farmer.

Now I am sure you see several government jobs in this process, several sure as hell should not be there to dictate to the farmer, but I don't think the one that the government does not currently do, immigration control, should be the one we put on the employer. No fucking way is that right.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

An employer should not be required to spend time energy and money on what the government should have already done.

Employers spend time and money doing drug screenings and background checks for current and previous criminal acts and convictions. Adding e-verify to that process is minimal. Knowing that the person working for you is who they say they are is a normal, smart, and necessary process.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Like Spanish language is a must to work in a store in some areas.

Not a must, but something that helps them compete and gain additional customers.

You could open a store tomorrow that everyone only speaks Swahili, it would most likely fail but that's your right to do that. Stores in certain areas are hiring spanish speaking workers because it makes them money.

 

[dviss1]

This is more like what the government is doing budget wise and Dviss1 is going to make it about the "conservatives" lol. Are there any conservatives in congress? A few it seems like. View attachment 19705

The so called conservatives have been spending like drunken sailors for decades bro. I'm not new to this.

 

[MarAzul]

Employers spend time and money doing drug screenings and background checks for current and previous criminal acts and convictions. Adding e-verify to that process is minimal. Knowing that the person working for you is who they say they are is a normal, smart, and necessary process.

At my option as the employer. When I determine the need is too my benefit.

 

[MarAzul]

Not a must, but something that helps them compete and gain additional customers.

Ha!
You aren't getting the picture. Additional customers is not the goal. Servicing the potential that is here is the goal, especially the most likely.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

The so called conservatives have been spending like drunken sailors for decades bro. I'm not new to this.

There ain't any left. They're all spending and spending. Dems too.

Not on bridges or pipes for Flint or anything else WE need. Wars and pork from both.

 

[MarAzul]

The so called conservatives have been spending like drunken sailors for decades bro. I'm not new to this.

Well you can rest assured the conservatives from Oregon have not been doing it. There ain't any. You guys have been sending, the no wit squad to Congress for years now. Peter DeFazio is classic example. I asked him if he knew of a heater to keep the winter ice out of my well house as good as the 100 watt light bulb?
He say;

What?
I say, well you guy outlawed them! I need a replacement.
He said, well the Constitutions provides us plenty of room to govern commerce!
Yes Sir. But I need a heater? Dumb Founded look! Next!
Well we have the 92 watt light bulb now, commerce has a way.

Then we have the Carpetbagger! Do you know him?

 

[Natebishop3]

You guys think Trump is stupid. I don't think he's stupid at all. He figured out exactly what buttons to push to grab support, and he is very good at pushing those buttons. I don't think for a minute that he believes half the shit that he posts. You would think that people would have caught on by now how trolling works.

 

[CupWizier]

You guys think Trump is stupid. I don't think he's stupid at all. He figured out exactly what buttons to push to grab support, and he is very good at pushing those buttons. I don't think for a minute that he believes half the shit that he posts. You would think that people would have caught on by now how trolling works.

Good luck with that theory, but just listening to his speeches shows that guy is definitely not the brightest, especially when he goes off the script. The guy paints a very clear picture as to how bright he isn't.

 

[dviss1]

Well you can rest assured the conservatives from Oregon have not been doing it.

Walden voted for the Iraq war.
Walden voted for Medicare Part D.
Walden voted for both Bush tax cuts.

Get the fuck outta here with that bull...

 

[dviss1]

You guys think Trump is stupid. I don't think he's stupid at all. He figured out exactly what buttons to push to grab support, and he is very good at pushing those buttons. I don't think for a minute that he believes half the shit that he posts. You would think that people would have caught on by now how trolling works.

Lol His approval rating is UP to 40%....

 

[MarAzul]

Walden voted for the Iraq war.
Walden voted for Medicare Part D.
Walden voted for both Bush tax cuts.

Get the fuck outta here with that bull...

I don't know Walden. But Medicare Part D is not a conservative's dream. Making a Democracy in anyplace is not my idea of conservative either.

 

[dviss1]

I don't know Walden. But Medicare Part D is not a conservative's dream. Making a Democracy in anyplace is not my idea of conservative either.

Walden is one of those "conservatives" that you "rest assured" wasn't a part of Bush's drunken spending that sent us into The Great Recession.

And a true fiscal conservative would've never voted for giving free money to big pharma. It's the reason Ron Wyden will never garner another vote from me.

 

[MarAzul]

Walden is one of those "conservatives" that you "rest assured"

By your standards, Not mine. If you don't like his votes and you don't like Wydens votes, We are not that far apart, except your ugly snark and baiting.