Michael Carter-Williams and Lillard-as-SG?

[BlazerCaravan]

Every time you say Damian is really an SG, I vomit and think of Damon Statamire. This is why you're getting the reaction you're geting, I think.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Every time you say Damian is really an SG, I vomit and think of Damon Statamire. This is why you're getting the reaction you're geting, I think.

Look: think of Damian as a 1 1/2. Dwayne Wade was played a lot at 1 in his rookie year, wasn't he?

Or, if it makes it better, think of Damian as a PG, but think of the trend in the NBA to have TWO starting-quality PGs that you can play together. Like NY did with Felton and Kidd/Prigioni. Like Denver does with Lawson and Dre. Like the Clippers do with Paul and Billups. Like GS does with Jack and Curry. Or like we did a lot with Maynor and Lillard. Only that combination is sub-optimal defensively. Suppose we could've drafted that Smart kid from OK State - would you have objected because he's called a PG? Or would you have thought "great - another good guard to play alongside Lillard"?

(And hey: we did okay with Stoudamire - largely because Pippen was really the PG...)

 

[illmatic99]

You don't play your best players out of position. That's just silly. But the general idea makes sense, and it's why I want Tyreke to be Dame's backcourt mate. But Dame needs to be the primary ball handler. His P&R game is so crucial for our offense.

Similarly, LA doesn't play C even if he has the height and skills to play it.

 

[PapaG]

You don't play your best players out of position. That's just silly. But the general idea makes sense, and it's why I want Tyreke to be Dame's backcourt mate. But Dame needs to be the primary ball handler. His P&R game is so crucial for our offense.

Similarly, LA doesn't play C even if he has the height and skills to play it.

Plus, he's also the best center on the roster. He's a better PF than C, though, so he plays at PF.

 

[illmatic99]

This happens quite often actually with really talented players.

Lebron could play PG full time if he wanted and did early in his career. Wade was similar. Melo could play PF if he wanted full time. BRoy coulda played PG. But it just doesn't work for the long term.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

You don't play your best players out of position. That's just silly.

That sounds like common sense but it can be interpreted two ways:
a) You don't try to make your players do things that that they're not good at, and you don't stop them doing things that they're good at. (Obviously true, except when they're young and you want to make them more well-rounded.)
b) There are five archetypes of player, every player fits into one of the archetypes, and you don't play them in any other position. (False.)

This whole idea of "PG/SG/SF/PF/C" is both relatively new and already out-of-date. Some coaches don't even use that terminology - they just say "guard" "wing" "big". And then there's geeks who have come up with about 20 different "types" of player.

Let's go back to (a): what are Lillard's strengths? Answer: scoring. Is he a great defender? No. Is he a great passer? No - he himself has conceded he's learning off Maynor, who isn't even the greatest PG himself.

Now, I'm all in favor of Lillard playing non-stop PG in the offseason. I would have him try to win games without taking a shot. But when it comes to the actual games, he's Brandon Roy. He's a ball-dominator. He's a 1 1/2. He's not Chris Paul (the rare player who can be both) and he's not Ray Allen (a 2G who needs to be set up by his PG and isn't that great at creating for himself.) So, just like with Roy, we have a puzzle of whom to play next to him. For the sake of the other 3 players on the court, I'd hope it could be someone who can throw lobs like Andre Miller or pick apart a defense with a pass like Jason Kidd, and defend like Tony Allen. Is that too much to ask?

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Actually, yes it is too much to ask for after one data point of analysis. Calling him a combo guard suddenly means he's undersized and not really likely to get us anywhere. If you were able to convince me that what you're saying is absolute fact, I'd say just fucking trade Lillard because no team with an undersized, volume-shooting SG as their featured player has ever really done anything worthwhile.

Plus this all feels very "Lillard isn't going to get any better, so let's buy a player to handle his deficiencies which will never get better." I'm all for bringing in a better, older backup PG than Maynor to play Obi-Wan. I'm also in favor of bringing in a better ball-handling shooting guard. But what I'm most in favor of is a better-designed offense that doesn't strand Lillard at the top of the key with a double team because nobody respects the guy setting the pick. I want a defensive scheme that isn't developed by the fucking janitor. Or maybe the actual janitor's defensive scheme is better than Kaleb's and we should try it. I want Lillard to learn from the Glove this summer (this is actually happening) and come back with a focus on integrating his game's aspects a little more smoothly. I'd like four supporting players who don't sit around watching Lillard flail because the best defensive scheme against portland it to quintuple team Lillard at half court like jr. high basketball.

Your "actual point guard for our midget shooting guard" take just makes us another rube team with a failed PGOTF experiment. Thanks for the sour persimmons, bub.

 

[Denny Crane]

FWIW...

As a Bulls fan, I'd consider moving Rose to SG for the right PG next to him.

Of course you want the ball in Rose's hands on offense, but someone else can easily dribble the ball up court and pass it to Rose. Saw plenty of Pippen making that first pass to MJ over the years.

LeBron plays PF yet has the ball in his hands as much as anyone.

The PG label isn't that important. If the team is better with a 2nd ballhandler and playmaker, where's the beef?

 

[OregonHuskerMan]

Look: think of Damian as a 1 1/2. Dwayne Wade was played a lot at 1 in his rookie year, wasn't he?

Or, if it makes it better, think of Damian as a PG, but think of the trend in the NBA to have TWO starting-quality PGs that you can play together. Like NY did with Felton and Kidd/Prigioni. Like Denver does with Lawson and Dre. Like the Clippers do with Paul and Billups. Like GS does with Jack and Curry. Or like we did a lot with Maynor and Lillard. Only that combination is sub-optimal defensively. Suppose we could've drafted that Smart kid from OK State - would you have objected because he's called a PG? Or would you have thought "great - another good guard to play alongside Lillard"?

(And hey: we did okay with Stoudamire - largely because Pippen was really the PG...)

Not only is that a defensive liability, but it also requires the right combination of PG/SG based on skillsets.

Felton/Kidd - Both can shoot decently. (also has Melo) Lawson/Dre - Lawson can shoot, Dre can penetrate, post up, solid mid range game. Paul and Billups - Both can shoot. Jack and Curry - Both can shoot. MCW - can't shoot, can't post up, not much of a shot at all...but excellent court vision.)

Smarts natural position was actually SG, as he was moved to PG at Oklahoma State, if I recall correctly. He also is a much, much better defender while being more offensively gifted than MCW. I actually don't think MCW would be a horrible player, just not the right skillset for THIS team. Smart is more like Tyreke Evans, harden, etc. MCW is like a tall suckier version of Nash without a shot.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I'm starting to fall in love with this guy (i.e. M C-W)'s game. Granted he can't shoot, but then neither could Andre. And, like Andre, this kid is a gifted passer, especially of lobs. I don't think he's necessarily a full-time PG (which means that his lack of shooting is more troubling, because a SG who can't shoot is no use) but he just seems to be somebody who can play. He defends well, he rebounds well, and he dragged Syracuse further than expected. Of course, the last PG who did that for Syracuse was Johnny Flynn, which is a huge red (orange) flag, so maybe it'll be just as well if we don't take him. But I see him as a third guard candidate who can have some of the elements of Steve Smith, Andre Miller and Shaun Livingston. (At best: at worst he's a slightly taller Kendall Marshall, the last big-PG-who-can't-shoot that I fell in love with.)

 

[KingSpeed]

Lillard isn't better off the ball and Stotts didn't say that. Lillard is better when he can do BOTH. Allows him to mix up his game and doesn't make him have to run the team on ball for 40 minutes. Between the two, he's better with the ball. But he is at his best when we use him both ways.

 

[KingSpeed]

Or this thread?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Not sorry this didn't happen. MCW's game SEEMS okay, but his numbers seem to be a bit hollow - he's a stat stuffer who doesn't help his team win. Plus he comes across as a bad attitude.

Are the Bucks this year underachieving or was last year an aberration? Their defense was what won them games last year and maybe Greg Monroe (another guy I'm even happier we didn't get) has wrecked that.

Still like Giannis, but he's another guy whose game doesn't seem to be helping his team to win. And so much for Khris Middleton, star SG.

 

[PDXFonz]

I didn't realize 12/7/2015 was bump every single MCW thread day. Are we sure we didn't miss any? Should we create a few more for him to celebrate this day?

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I didn't realize 12/7/2015 was bump every single MCW thread day. Are we sure we didn't miss any? Should we create a few more for him to celebrate this day?

It's Pearl Harbor Day. MCW's game has bombed since he first blew up on the scene.

So yeah, it became necessary to bump every MCW thread today, I suppose.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

And so much for Khris Middleton, star SG.

Spoke too soon: