OT Michael Jordan is starting a NASCAR team with Denny Hamlin and his first driver is Bubba Wallace.

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kjironman1 said:
Dude?
Manufacturer Total Wins
Cup Wins
NSX Wins
Truck WinS

Chevrolet 69 39 21 9
Ford 22 16 4 2
Toyota 18 3 4 11
Buick 5 2 3 –
Dodge 5 2 0 3
Pontiac 5 1 4 –
Hudson 3 3 – –
Oldsmobile 3 1 2 –
Plymouth 1 1 – –

Not sure where you get your info?
Nothing about Chevy is C-Grade equipment. Even more so what on earth would make you thing Richard Petty would allow "C" grade equipment in his cars.
Now the one thing i will give you Toyota has won 3 of the last 4 with Ford winning one. However Chevy won 13 straight from 2003-2015.
Toyota got a hold of Jimmie Johnson, Martin Truex and Kyle Busch. They might win a couple more. The difference in equipment is so very slight. It's the team and the driver that wins a cup.
By the way Jimmie Johnson went to Chevy and is now with Hendrick Motorsports
Truex and Busch are still with Gibbs but the stable is too full. You can only hold onto that many drivers for a year or two and now you have Hamlin moving.

By the way watch out for keep an eye on Christopher Bell (Toyota) and Quinn Houff (Chevy) those two are my picks for the next 5-10 years.
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The quality of equipment isnt based off the manufacturer it's based off the team. Compare Joe Gibbs Racings wins in the past decade to Richard Petty Motorsports... I'll wait.

Quinn Houff? Only reason he has a Cup ride is because he brought on sponsorship. Hes been horrible.

Christopher Bell is already confirmed to be going to Gibbs next year to drive the #20, replacing Erik Jones.

Jimmie Johnson has NEVER driven a Toyota and has ALWAYS been with Hendrick Motorsports.

Denny Hamlin isnt moving, hes staying in the #11.

Cmon man.
 
kjironman1 said:
I disagree here but i do understand the point. Obviously you must have great equipment. But for all the years i have watched it comes down to the team and the driver. You can have the best equipment and if your driver and team are out of sorts it falls apart very quickly.
Just my take on this.
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Well that matters, "everything" is an over exaggeration but a guy like Bubba would be doing noticeably better in higher grade equipment. Hes gotten better every year and is still only in his mid-20s.
 
kjironman1 said:
This i absolutely agree with!

I also think your very first comment-


Was dead on. This is about sponsors and money.
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It's also about trying to be as competitive as possible. JGR is the best team to have backing you equipment wise, and name a better free agent driver than Bubba Wallace (other than Kyle Larson, who's already tied to the 48, but got released earlier this season for using a racial slur).
 
BonesJones said:
Jimmie Johnson has NEVER driven a Toyota and has ALWAYS been with Hendrick Motorsports.
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After reading my statement i can see why you responded like that but that was my point. They tried very hard to get him in a Toyota but it didn't work. He went to Hendrick Motorsports and has stayed with Chevy.

BonesJones said:
Denny Hamlin isnt moving, hes staying in the #11.
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Honest question. Do you think he stays there if as this thread title states "He starts a team with Micheal Jordan and his driver is Bubba Wallace"?
Again that is my point here.

BonesJones said:
The quality of equipment isnt based off the manufacturer it's based off the team.
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I don't understand how you would think the team makes the equipment? Absolutely the quality of the equipment is by who makes it and that is he Manufacturer. This conversation is and has always been about Toyota and Chevy and Ford and Dodge or whatever car you want it to be. I don't like Toyota. I personally don't feel Nascar should have ever let it become part of it at all. Just my feel and there is absolutely nothing anyone can say to change that.
The best teams and the greatest drivers have all drove Chevy for many many years. That is fact.

BonesJones said:
Quinn Houff? Only reason he has a Cup ride is because he brought on sponsorship. Hes been horrible.
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We'll see. He's from a town i spent a bit of time in so i'm pulling for him. He'll move up. At least i hope so?

BonesJones said:
Christopher Bell is already confirmed to be going to Gibbs
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He will be fun to watch also.
 
kjironman1 said:
I'm gonna let the dog just keep on barking. If you honestly want to have this conversation bark twice. If not roll over.
I will leave this tasty doggy treat for you to eat up.
https://www.american.edu/kogod/research/autoindex/2020-auto-index.cfm

Please note #34 on the list with it's total domestic content of 56.5 rating ZERO profit rating and Zero RD rating and it's 45% US material rating.
Then please scroll on down to the very last page entries 351-372 and notice the list of Toyota manufactured cars.
After that please don't tell me one of my favorite dogs actually sheds all over the seat of a Toyota.....
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Probably should not poke this bear but will. I have been an A buyer since birth with both my grandfather and father working for GM. Have more than half the guys I went to grade school with that work in those plants. Let's just say quality is not on many of those guys mind and the reason I will probably never buy a new American car. I am very pro Union but they protect many dirt bags.
 
kjironman1 said:
After reading my statement i can see why you responded like that but that was my point. They tried very hard to get him in a Toyota but it didn't work. He went to Hendrick Motorsports and has stayed with Chevy.


Honest question. Do you think he stays there if as this thread title states "He starts a team with Micheal Jordan and his driver is Bubba Wallace"?
Again that is my point here.


I don't understand how you would think the team makes the equipment? Absolutely the quality of the equipment is by who makes it and that is he Manufacturer. This conversation is and has always been about Toyota and Chevy and Ford and Dodge or whatever car you want it to be. I don't like Toyota. I personally don't feel Nascar should have ever let it become part of it at all. Just my feel and there is absolutely nothing anyone can say to change that.
The best teams and the greatest drivers have all drove Chevy for many many years. That is fact.


We'll see. He's from a town i spent a bit of time in so i'm pulling for him. He'll move up. At least i hope so?


He will be fun to watch also.
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Toyota wasn't even IN NASCAR when Johnson went to Hendrick.

You act like Dale Earnhardt didnt own a multi-car race team of his own while racing for Richard Childress Racing.

Individual teams build their own chassis, among many other components. The equipment gap will be reduced when NASCAR switches to one single chassis manufacturer in 2022.

The defending champ and two-time champ Kyle Busch drives for Toyota. Toyota has won 3 of the past 5 championships. But again, the equipment gap is due to individual teams contracting their own cars, not getting them from a manufacturer.

Quinn made some terrible mistakes this year. He's also in D or F grade equipment. The next gen car should make a team like SPIRE Motorsports more competitive.

From a competitive move, MJ did the best thing he could do: get arguably the most talented FA driver outside of Larson, the driver that'll bring in the most sponsorship money as well, and put him in a car backed by JGR.
 
BonesJones said:
Toyota wasn't even IN NASCAR when Johnson went to Hendrick.

You act like Dale Earnhardt didnt own a multi-car race team of his own while racing for Richard Childress Racing.

Individual teams build their own chassis, among many other components. The equipment gap will be reduced when NASCAR switches to one single chassis manufacturer in 2022.

The defending champ and two-time champ Kyle Busch drives for Toyota. Toyota has won 3 of the past 5 championships. But again, the equipment gap is due to individual teams contracting their own cars, not getting them from a manufacturer.

Quinn made some terrible mistakes this year. He's also in D or F grade equipment. The next gen car should make a team like SPIRE Motorsports more competitive.

From a competitive move, MJ did the best thing he could do: get arguably the most talented FA driver outside of Larson, the driver that'll bring in the most sponsorship money as well, and put him in a car backed by JGR.
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This fight has been going on for nearly 30 years. There is absolutely no way you will ever convince me Toyota belongs in Nascar.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...r-anniversary-overcoming-resistance/98376934/
 
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Charcoal Filtered said:
Probably should not poke this bear but will. I have been an A buyer since birth with both my grandfather and father working for GM. Have more than half the guys I went to grade school with that work in those plants. Let's just say quality is not on many of those guys mind and the reason I will probably never buy a new American car. I am very pro Union but they protect many dirt bags.
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I should just leave it at that also. But go ahead and read that Kogod report. Then read every one of them for the last 40 years.
Toyota absolutely is not helping this country.
Now i teach so remember i have been at this for a while. I used to say things like "When it all comes down and we are on our own we will all see what I'm talking about"

THEN IT ALL CAME DOWN!

Covid-19 reared it's ugly head and the country was grasping at ways to handle the issues it faced. The President had to invoke the "Defense Act". Yes this was about respirators and masks and medical gowns and medical equipment. He ordered Cheverolet GM and Ford Motor Co. to immediately start working to save this country.
We cannot tell Toyota to do anything. We cannot tell KIA to do anything. We cannot tell Nissan, Hyandai, Subaru, Isuzu or any other foreign company to help us.
He had to tell GM, Ford, Nike, Intel to help this country. If you are putting your money into other countries then you are not helping this country. I have been all over the world in the military and in personal travels. Go to any country in the world and they all buy the cars made in their country. In England it's the Cooper, Austin Martin, Land Rover. France Renault, Citroen, Peugeot. Germany VW, BMW, Audi, Porsche. Korea Hyandai, Kia. Japan Toyota and Nissan. Do i need to continue? They don't buy American made cars. They know they must support their country. Even more so if they do they are publicly disgraced for spending their money that way.

If this country is plunged into another world war? If this country truly becomes at odds with it's allies? If this country needs to build Ships, Tanks, Planes and Weapons. We will need to do it with the companies we have. GM, Ford, Tesla, Boeing, Nike, Intel, Microsoft, and the energy will have to come from within our Borders. Toyota is BUSTING not only the UAW but the Union of the United States.

Go ahead Buy your Toyota.....
 
BonesJones said:
I'm not even debating that I'm debating all your false statements.
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Half of them are opinions and the others are completely debatable so False doesn't fit here man. It's NASCAR not science. As i said from the beginning he's gonna choose to drive a Toyota. You seem to have a problem with that assessment. That's completely fine with me.
 
kjironman1 said:
I should just leave it at that also. But go ahead and read that Kogod report. Then read every one of them for the last 40 years.
Toyota absolutely is not helping this country.
Now i teach so remember i have been at this for a while. I used to say things like "When it all comes down and we are on our own we will all see what I'm talking about"

THEN IT ALL CAME DOWN!

Covid-19 reared it's ugly head and the country was grasping at ways to handle the issues it faced. The President had to invoke the "Defense Act". Yes this was about respirators and masks and medical gowns and medical equipment. He ordered Cheverolet GM and Ford Motor Co. to immediately start working to save this country.
We cannot tell Toyota to do anything. We cannot tell KIA to do anything. We cannot tell Nissan, Hyandai, Subaru, Isuzu or any other foreign company to help us.
He had to tell GM, Ford, Nike, Intel to help this country. If you are putting your money into other countries then you are not helping this country. I have been all over the world in the military and in personal travels. Go to any country in the world and they all buy the cars made in their country. In England it's the Cooper, Austin Martin, Land Rover. France Renault, Citroen, Peugeot. Germany VW, BMW, Audi, Porsche. Korea Hyandai, Kia. Japan Toyota and Nissan. Do i need to continue? They don't buy American made cars. They know they must support their country. Even more so if they do they are publicly disgraced for spending their money that way.

If this country is plunged into another world war? If this country truly becomes at odds with it's allies? If this country needs to build Ships, Tanks, Planes and Weapons. We will need to do it with the companies we have. GM, Ford, Tesla, Boeing, Nike, Intel, Microsoft, and the energy will have to come from within our Borders. Toyota is BUSTING not only the UAW but the Union of the United States.

Go ahead Buy your Toyota.....
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I just bought an 2020 Honda Insight. Which car should I have bought?
 
Charcoal Filtered said:
I would like to know which exact American car I should have bought in your opinion.
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To each his own but i posted this on page 2
https://www.american.edu/kogod/research/autoindex/2020-auto-index.cfm

It gives a pretty detailed idea of vehicles and their Domestic Content. You would have to look at what kind of car fits your needs. I don't know what a Honda Insight is so i cannot come up with what would be something you would like and need plus afford. Those are all pretty important issues no?
Then go shopping.
I drive a Chevy Pickup and a Dodge Charger.
The Dodge only scores just over 60% DC on the year it was built but it brings back a 3 score on Profit and 100% R&D. So it's kind of a middle of the road thing.
 
Only two American cars made the top list for Hybrids. Will not go over the Chevy Bolt since it would not fit what I was looking for. It is simply too small. Here is the comparison for the only other option, the Ford Fusion.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/compare?trims=14168-407875_14088-408739

My out the door price (with Washington tax) was $23.5k. With the Fusion, it would have been atleast 4k more. Add to that, the trunk would have been smaller (which is a big need with two kids) and the fuel efficiency would be 8 mpg less. The depreciation (which I would not realize since my goal is to drive the wheels off) is huge the first year for the Fusion. First year 9.4k.

https://www.edmunds.com/ford/fusion-hybrid/2020/cost-to-own/#style=401799047

Not seeing a 2021 version of the Fusion. Usually not a good idea to buy discontinued brands. My Camry lasted 18 years and will see how long the parts for the Hybrid hold up. My guess is that at year 10, my Honda will be doing far better than the Fusion. No car payments are a very nice thing. With the money I save, I can spend on other things that help our economy.

I do laugh though whenever I hear "German Engineering" thrown around as a compliment though. Would never consider letting my kids get VW's after my experience with a girl friend and wife with Jetta's.
 
Charcoal Filtered said:
Using these numbers, the Insight was #55 and the Ford Fusion #68.

My Odyssey ranked pretty high too!
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Difference is the Fords Profit is 100% back to this country. The Honda goes to Japan By the way #55 is not a good rating. 55 is the 109th best on that list.
Then go look at the top 10-20 and look what companies are there. Honda did make it into the top 20 with the TLX, Odyssey and Passport. But again the profit rating all goes back to Japan and they are crushing our auto industry by paying lower wages and working people longer hours to get by.
Then again the same issue as above. If there is a national emergency. Maybe WW3? Can we expect Japan to be on our side? Can we expect them to build our Ships, Planes supply our ammunition? How many times has GM been in the forefront of a new technology or idea. Created it only to have Japan take it and expand it further then have Americans buy the Japanese model? Can you say "Volt"? How about rear view cameras? Hell even cruise control. Every new idea comes from here. But people continue to by Japanese.
Americans are plain idiots for allowing Toyota Nissan Honda Lexus Subaru take our industry from us.

All car makers are Global companies now. No question there. But there are numbers here that car companies would have to respect if Americans would buy only cars made here and only bought cars made by American Companies. If Americans did that they could wipe away the national debt inside of 10 years. Think about that. Automobile companies alone could change the very nature of the way our country was run if we forced them to do it. We buy cars. No other country in the world comes close. All we have to do is stand together and only by cars that run a certain way (thinking climate here) and are built by Americans for a living wage. We could buckle the industry if we would just spend our money wisely.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
I've met you, you're too cool to drive a minivan.
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I must have fooled you. I am definitely a stereotypical minivan driver.

kjironman1 said:
Difference is the Fords Profit is 100% back to this country. The Honda goes to Japan By the way #55 is not a good rating. 55 is the 109th best on that list.
Then go look at the top 10-20 and look what companies are there. Honda did make it into the top 20 with the TLX, Odyssey and Passport. But again the profit rating all goes back to Japan and they are crushing our auto industry by paying lower wages and working people longer hours to get by.
Then again the same issue as above. If there is a national emergency. Maybe WW3? Can we expect Japan to be on our side? Can we expect them to build our Ships, Planes supply our ammunition? How many times has GM been in the forefront of a new technology or idea. Created it only to have Japan take it and expand it further then have Americans buy the Japanese model? Can you say "Volt"? How about rear view cameras? Hell even cruise control. Every new idea comes from here. But people continue to by Japanese.
Americans are plain idiots for allowing Toyota Nissan Honda Lexus Subaru take our industry from us.

All car makers are Global companies now. No question there. But there are numbers here that car companies would have to respect if Americans would buy only cars made here and only bought cars made by American Companies. If Americans did that they could wipe away the national debt inside of 10 years. Think about that. Automobile companies alone could change the very nature of the way our country was run if we forced them to do it. We buy cars. No other country in the world comes close. All we have to do is stand together and only by cars that run a certain way (thinking climate here) and are built by Americans for a living wage. We could buckle the industry if we would just spend our money wisely.
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Car cost 23500. Not sure what number they go off of for margin but guessing it is far less than that. Highest number I saw was 7%. Will go with the highest numbers, so $1645 of profit went to Honda instead of Ford. However, I already showed the savings and it was well above $1645. Would I rather have that money in Ford's hands in hopes it trickles back down to me or directly in mine?

Hard to find anything American that was ranked above #55 but will compare the Chevy Malibu. Another car to be discontinued. Fuel mileage around 20 mpg less. Year 10, I like my chances with the Insight over the Malibu. Also like that I am consuming less gas, which is good for the environment and our dependence upon oil.

Annual revenue for Ford and GM is around 300 billion. The defense budget is just under 700 billion. If the car makers are that important, the defense department needs to help them make a better car.

I also do not think that the main problem is foreign companies taking our ideas, making them better, then selling them back to us. The problem is both are poorly run and/or that Japan has a much higher per capita engineer/population ratio.

Many things to consider to fix the problem but in the interim I am happy with my choice.
 
Charcoal Filtered said:
Would I rather have that money in Ford's hands in hopes it trickles back down to me or directly in mine?
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I would hope so rather than thinking any of it will ever be seen by you from Japan.

Charcoal Filtered said:
Not sure what number they go off of for margin but guessing it is far less than that. Highest number I saw was 7%
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100% of the profit from Ford comes back to the US. That is the point. Same with Chevy.

Charcoal Filtered said:
Hard to find anything American that was ranked above #55
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Every position from 1-18 is American Vehicles made here.

If you are honestly trying to compare a Honda Insight to a Chevy Malibu you will be very unsatisfied.
Your Insight has a 1.5 L 4 cylinder motor that can't accelerate up a hill if you have more than 2 people in the car. Not that you would want more than 2 people because they couldn't fit in most cases. The Malibu pulls almost 80 more horse power out of the same motor.
Of course it's going to get better gas mileage. It's almost 800 lbs lighter and the Malibu seats 5 comfortably.
The Malibu is a Mid Size Family car. Not a commuter car.

Nobody anywhere is disputing the idea that Honda or any other foreign car are good cars. The idea is this country can make good cars. Just as good as theirs and the market is obviously there for them. If you are talking about economy you have forgot everything you ever learned in economics if you think your savings spent here makes any difference at all.
Economy is driven by Jobs and income of the people making a living wage. Make all cars here for a living wage and our economy problems are solved. Both for this generation and all of them in the future. If we continue to let Japan make a couple of their models here undercutting the wages and then pumping the rest of their models into the country (Consider Prius) we will continue to lose the market. Not sure how people can't see that. But sure take your extra 500 bucks you get on resale and spend it at Walmart on Chines made stuff. That will help.
 
People actually know about nascar?

If you think Baseball is boring, but think taking lefts all day is fun. (see how I can generalize that)...
 
kjironman1 said:
Nobody anywhere is disputing the idea that Honda or any other foreign car are good cars. The idea is this country can make good cars.
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The US was cranking out utter crap vehicles in the '70s and '80s while the Japanese companies stormed the market. The quality being put out in the 2000s by the US is largely thanks to having to step up to the Japanese competition. Buying American all those years would have just compelled the Big 3 to keep the quality acceptably low, most likely.

If you are talking about economy you have forgot everything you ever learned in economics if you think your savings spent here makes any difference at all.
Economy is driven by Jobs and income of the people making a living wage.
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Where do you think those locally spent savings go? Hint: local jobs and living wages. You're awfully quick to lecture people about economics, when your comments in this thread have shown an alarming lack of "insight" on the topic.
 
Strenuus said:
People actually know about nascar?

If you think Baseball is boring, but think taking lefts all day is fun. (see how I can generalize that)...
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You can dumb down any sport, just like you're doing here.
 
handiman said:
Where do you think those locally spent savings go? Hint: local jobs and living wages. You're awfully quick to lecture people about economics, when your comments in this thread have shown an alarming lack of "insight" on the topic.
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No brother. A thousand dollars in the hand gets spent on goods and services. Goods mostly made in China as it stands now and services that are not "Living Wage" jobs. Being a delivery driver for Pizza Hut or Grub Hub or whatever is not a living wage job. Selling electronics at Best Buy is not a living wage job.
A "Living wage Job" gives someone a thousand dollars in the hand 52 times a year. That allows them to be able to buy American.
If you would like some proof on this go look at what people bought with their "Stimulus" check. The overwhelming amount of people spent it on televisions. None of which where made in the USA. They literally set it up so that brands like Sony had a very nice 65 inch sitting there as the first thing you saw when you walked in the door of the store for ...You guessed it $1199.99. Pathetic. Alarming is the fact that you have been "Duped" into thinking your Honda Insight is a good thing for this country. Sad really.
 
kjironman1 said:
No brother. A thousand dollars in the hand gets spent on goods and services. Goods mostly made in China as it stands now and services that are not "Living Wage" jobs. Being a delivery driver for Pizza Hut or Grub Hub or whatever is not a living wage job. Selling electronics at Best Buy is not a living wage job.
A "Living wage Job" gives someone a thousand dollars in the hand 52 times a year. That allows them to be able to buy American.
If you would like some proof on this go look at what people bought with their "Stimulus" check. The overwhelming amount of people spent it on televisions. None of which where made in the USA. They literally set it up so that brands like Sony had a very nice 65 inch sitting there as the first thing you saw when you walked in the door of the store for ...You guessed it $1199.99. Pathetic. Alarming is the fact that you have been "Duped" into thinking your Honda Insight is a good thing for this country. Sad really.
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So your argument is Americans should buy inferior products at higher prices because that's good for America?
 
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