Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexually'

[The_Lillard_King]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

What does "it is a defense" mean:
1) Prosecutors will never prosecute it, or
2) During the trial, evidence will be allowed that the age difference was under 3 years. This may or may not sway the jury.

It's a legal defense. Meaning if they are with three years of age it is not a crime and if somehow a prosecutor charged it, the judge will kick it out before ti ever got to a jury (state would also probably be subject to fines for prosecutorial misconduct unless they had reasonable beleif the defense did not apply)

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

Denny and I go back almost a decade. Can you imagine, that's how long he's been wrong about stuff!

I'm 17 years old, not that it should matter.

And you've been carrying on an online relationship with Denny since you were 7yrs old?

 

[jlprk]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

It's a legal defense. Meaning if they are with three years of age it is not a crime and if somehow a prosecutor charged it, the judge will kick it out before ti ever got to a jury (state would also probably be subject to fines for prosecutorial misconduct unless they had reasonable beleif the defense did not apply)

Okay, thanks. Good for Oregon. But posters are assuming it's true in most or all states. I'd like to see some evidence.

Do you have a link for either Statement 1 or 2? In most states, you say? I've never read either until this thread. Maybe in a few states the law makes exceptions, but most?

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

They have the discretion to except such couples. However, it should always be an exception. We agree because you said (and I agree) that age of consent laws aren't meant to nail an 18/17 year old couple having consensual sex, they're meant to nail 45 year olds having sex (consensual or not) with personages under the age of 18, where there is very plausibly a significant experience/understanding divide.

You're saying the same thing I am, but you seem to think there's a conflict.

It should not be an exception. If the girl says it wasn't consensual, then they use the law to convict. The parents should have the right to pursue charges.

 

[jlprk]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

The law defines all underage sex as nonconsensual, forcible rape. When you see statistics with classifications, underage stuff swells the numbers for nonconsensual, and for forcible.

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

The law defines all underage sex as nonconsensual, forcible rape. When you see statistics with classifications, underage stuff swells the numbers for nonconsensual, and for forcible.

If we get rid of laws against murder, the murder rate will hit zero.

Smert.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

If the girl says it wasn't consensual, then they use the law to convict. The parents should have the right to pursue charges.

I'm talking about sex in which neither party alleges non-consent.

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

I'm talking about sex in which neither party alleges non-consent.

Show me a case where that's been prosecuted in the last 5 years.

Good luck.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

Show me a case where that's been prosecuted in the last 5 years.

Good luck.

Thanks for wishing me good luck, but I won't need it. I'm only motivated to argue the concepts, not research for specific examples I want overturned.

But since we agree in principle, which you haven't yet realized, it's not that important anyway.

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

I argued the way the law is, and I support it as is with the modification that the parents or guardian of the victim would have to seek charges.

You argued something else.

If you have a reason to argue it, and it's not something that exists only between your ears, you might want to prove it.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

I argued the way the law is, and I support it as is with the modification that the parents or guardian of the victim would have to seek charges.

You argued something else.

If you have a reason to argue it, and it's not something that exists only between your ears, you might want to prove it.

Denny I think your system would be subject to a lot of corruption.

If I'm a pedophile, I target kids from low income families. If it becomes discovered that I had sex with a 10 yr old, I offer the parent or legal guardian $25K to buy my way out of prosecution.

Heck, if I'm an apartment landlord of a low income area, I target the kids and offer free rent to parents if I get caught.

Seems to easy to buy your way out of the crime. Hate to imagine what leverage crack dealers would have over crack addicted mothers . . .

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

Denny I think your system would be subject to a lot of corruption.

If I'm a pedophile, I target kids from low income families. If it becomes discovered that I had sex with a 10 yr old, I offer the parent or legal guardian $25K to buy my way out of prosecution.

Heck, if I'm an apartment landlord of a low income area, I target the kids and offer free rent to parents if I get caught.

Seems to easy to buy your way out of the crime.

They can do that anyway.

How do the cops find out about it?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

They can do that anyway.

How do the cops find out about it?

Mandatory child abuse reporting by gov't workers, school officials and health care providers. What if child wants to prosecute but mother doesn't

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

Can crack whore trade sex of child for drugs?

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

Mandatory child abuse reporting by gov't workers, school officials and health care providers. What if child wants to prosecute but mother doesn't

Statute of limitations would allow the child to prosecute when of age.

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

Can crack whore trade sex of child for drugs?

That's a very different crime. Human trafficking.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

That's a very different crime. Human trafficking.

So crack dealer preys on crack addict's child. Then when crack addict finds out, do you think she or he will want to prosecute? Tough case to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it is human trafficking.

I think while you envision suburb america (which I agree could be hard to detect if a kid is having sex with an adult), I'm envisioning all the problems that would arise with intercity low income neighborhoods. Where many people are afraid to get law enforcement involved and will often do things they normally would not do to escape the life they are leading. These are the kids that are often susceptible to grooming and your system gives the pedophile one more avenue to avoid prosecution.

But as I said earlier, I get the idea of letting the parents decide and they usually have a voice in prosecution. There isa whole victims right act in Oregon to give the victim more of a voice in prosecution.

Domestic violence is another interesting topic. Do you let the victim decide to prosecute given the whole battered wive syndrome . . . but I know that is another topic.

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

Put the guy in jail for crack.

Geez.

You're trying to figure out a way around it, but there really isn't.

If the kid is in the kind of family that family services should come and take the children, then that's what they should do.

But THAT is a different discussion.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

Put the guy in jail for crack.

Geez.

You're trying to figure out a way around it, but there really isn't.

If the kid is in the kind of family that family services should come and take the children, then that's what they should do.

But THAT is a different discussion.

Are you kidding? I'm trying to figure away around it?

I'm trying to politely show that your system has all kinds of flaws and potential for abuse. But allow me to be more blunt . . . there isn't a chance in hell that we will ever have a legal system that would ever put in place the type of system you are suggesting. Any legislator that would try to create a bill that suggests this would be laughed at and likely lose their seat at the next election.

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

You haven't shown any way to abuse it.

If anything, the government being overzealous prosecuting cases would be a terrible thing.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

You haven't shown any way to abuse it.

If anything, the government being overzealous prosecuting cases would be a terrible thing.

No denny, you just refuse to see it.

No system is perfect, including the present one as it does have the potential for prosecutorial abuse. But giving all the discretion to the parents is not understanding the dangers involved in these crimes and the severe lack of parenting that occurs in our society.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

What a weird discussion.

One side is talking about pedophilia - the other about teenage sex.

Denny, your whole argument is based on the notion that there needs to be one law to handle both situations. Why? I don't approve of drunk driving and I don't approve of texting while driving. I don't expect ONE law to deal with both situations.

I will say this - at least we are past the days when only females could be victims of statutory rape. Well into the 20th century, many jurisdictions had laws that said if a 17 year old babysitter sexually molested a 12 year old boy, she was the victim and he was a "rapist."

 

[barfo]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

What a weird discussion.

One side is talking about pedophilia - the other about teenage sex.

One side apparently thinks there is no difference between the two.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: Michele Bachmann: Gays Want To Let Adults 'Freely Prey On Little Children Sexuall

What a weird discussion.

One side is talking about pedophilia - the other about teenage sex.

Denny, your whole argument is based on the notion that there needs to be one law to handle both situations. Why? I don't approve of drunk driving and I don't approve of texting while driving. I don't expect ONE law to deal with both situations.

I will say this - at least we are past the days when only females could be victims of statutory rape. Well into the 20th century, many jurisdictions had laws that said if a 17 year old babysitter sexually molested a 12 year old boy, she was the victim and he was a "rapist."

The law protected a 13 year old girl from rape by a 16 year old boy. I'm sure there are millions of boys and girls having consensual sex without being prosecuted. Why is that? (I'm fine with it, that's a non-issue).

17 year old boy and 12 year old girl. How do you handle that? Can the 12 year old girl truly consent at that age? (NO).

The law to handle both situations is a tool that prosecutors can use to put the bad guys in jail. Whether the bad guy is 45 and the girl is 12 or the bad guy is 18 and the girl is 17. Either way, the trial is not going to be an assault on the victim as adult trials are. You know, where "she consented" is a defense and worse ("history of promiscuity").