Religion Mid East Religious War, Now with added USA Involvement! (1 Viewer)

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AmirIcon said:
Oh brother... really? You should take a look at the U.S. involvement in Latin America and the Middle East. That alone will tell you otherwise. They have overturned democratically elected leaders and funded coups all around the world. Those nations are considerably worse protecting the interests of American corporations. It's horrendous. I wish we taught this stuff in schools nationwide.
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Absolutely. And that is wrong and we should not support it. But that doesn't negate anything I have said.

Overall, we are living in the safest time in human history with the least suffering. Due largely to US diplomacy and peacekeeping.

Nobody is saying we can't do better, but we should try to avoid sliding backward.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Absolutely. And that is wrong and we should not support it. But that doesn't negate anything I have said.

Overall, we are living in the safest time in human history with the least suffering. Due largely to US diplomacy and peacekeeping.

Nobody is saying we can't do better, but we should try to avoid sliding backward.
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That's a very sunshine and rainbows take. I hope you get a chance to research the hell that people in other nations are going through because of the U.S.
 
jonnyboy said:
When the boomer demographic relinquishes control, things will change drastically. I think many of the world’s powerful know this and are basically cashing in their chips at this point. It’s why corruption is so blatant now, they simply don’t even care to try and hide it anymore. The building is being looted while it burns.
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Yeah sure. I do believe I've heard this exact same refrain about older generations in past decades, and guess what? Things did indeed change, but slowly and marginally.

One good thing about getting old - historical perspective.

That and senior discounts.

barfo
 
AmirIcon said:
That's a very sunshine and rainbows take. I hope you get a chance to research the hell that people in other nations are going through because of the U.S.
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Simple facts. I'm aware, and advocate for us to do better.

Once again, this doesn't dispute anything I've said.
 
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Leaked details of ceasefire proposal hints at compromises to end war in Gaza: Report

The Associated Press (AP) news agency reports that leaked details on truce proposal talks between Israel and Hamas hints at compromises on both sides to end the war on Gaza.

According to the AP, the initial stage of the deal would last for 40 days. During this period, Hamas would start by releasing female civilian captives in exchange for Palestinian prisoners held by Israel.

After this first release, Israeli forces would withdraw from a coastal road in Gaza and head inland to facilitate the entry of humanitarian aid to the starved Palestinian territory.

During this period, displaced Palestinian civilians would be able to return to their homes in the northern Gaza Strip. Hamas would also provide a list of captives who are still alive during that time.

Within a period of three weeks, both sides would start indirect negotiations that aim to restore a permanent calm in Gaza, the AP reports.

Three weeks into this first phase, Israeli troops would withdraw from central Gaza.

The second six-week phase would seek to finalise arrangements for a permanent calm in Gaza, and the release of all remaining captives, both civilians and military, in exchange for more Palestinian prisoners released from Israeli jails.

Israeli military captives held in Gaza would not be released before the start of the calm in the war-torn territory.

The third and final stage, according to AP, would include the release of the remains of deceased captives and more Palestinian prisoners held by Israel, and the start of a five-year reconstruction plan for the territory.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/live...evels-of-death-and-destruction?update=2875779
 
barfo said:
Yeah sure. I do believe I've heard this exact same refrain about older generations in past decades, and guess what? Things did indeed change, but slowly and marginally.

One good thing about getting old - historical perspective.

That and senior discounts.

barfo
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Perhaps a historical perspective that predates your lifetime will allow you to realize things don’t remain the same forever and ever, and that there’s never been an empire where the chickens didn’t come home to roost.
Not trying to pick on anyone as individuals when i call out the boomer generation btw. That’s my parents and the people who raised me, took care of me, etc. But, that generation as a whole will go down as the Marie Antoinette generation based on the actions of many, many of them. Especially the ones in power.
 
After Rebuking Netanyahu on Senate Floor, Schumer to Invite Israeli PM to Address Congress

Schumer called for new elections in Israel in March, saying Netanyahu and other extremists in the government were "major obstacles" to peace.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/schumer-netanyahu

Way to stand firm on your convictions Chuck...
 
Israel's Destruction of Gaza 'Unprecedented in Scope and Scale': UN

"These new figures warn that the suffering in Gaza will not end when the war does."

https://www.commondreams.org/news/israel-destruction-gaza-unprecedented

If the U.S. cared about Palestinians education, health care system, etc. . Israel wouldn't have been allowed to do this level of destruction to Gaza in the first place. Period.

Edit: If I can find it, I will post a video of the number of Mosques, hospitals, etc., that have been destroyed in Gaza. Israel isn't leaving many structures left standing anywhere. And the ones that are still standing, have been damaged and are in need of repairs/replacing.
 
jonnyboy said:
Perhaps a historical perspective that predates your lifetime will allow you to realize things don’t remain the same forever and ever, and that there’s never been an empire where the chickens didn’t come home to roost.
Not trying to pick on anyone as individuals when i call out the boomer generation btw. That’s my parents and the people who raised me, took care of me, etc. But, that generation as a whole will go down as the Marie Antoinette generation based on the actions of many, many of them. Especially the ones in power.
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I didn't take it personally. I'm happy to take whatever blame/credit falls to my generation.
Yes, sometimes things fall apart "suddenly", on a historical timeline.
But your conception of the current situation is wildly at odds with those situations.
Sure, there are lots and lots of issues to complain about, but this country is very prosperous and at peace.
No, paying for wars fought in other places by other people doesn't count as being at war.
And it won't contribute very much towards our own societal collapse until/unless we suffer severe consequences for it here.

barfo
 
The Future of Israel



An interesting take by Jimmy Carter.
 
crandc said:
Your act is getting old.
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You mean Bibi's and almost the entire Washington establishment? Really vocal with me but pretty hush when it comes to them.

You know you don't have to read it if you don't want to?
 
AmirIcon said:
You mean Bibi's and almost the entire Washington establishment? Really vocal with me but pretty hush when it comes to them.

You know you don't have to read it if you don't want to?
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No, I mean your sarcastic "they must be antisemitic". No one on this board and very few people anywhere have said any criticism of Israeli actions in Gaza or US policy is antisemitic. At the same time any time someone disagrees with you they are accused of being OK with genocide.

I won't waste my time pointing out every time I have criticized US policy.
 
crandc said:
No, I mean your sarcastic "they must be antisemitic". No one on this board and very few people anywhere have said any criticism of Israeli actions in Gaza or US policy is antisemitic. At the same time any time someone disagrees with you they are accused of being OK with genocide.

I won't waste my time pointing out every time I have criticized US policy.
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You have to be on drugs or just plain disingenuous after a number of bills passed suggesting otherwise. You're not a serious person. If you don't like my satire, you're welcome to not read instead of throwing a hissy fit.
 
I am not on drugs and go fuck yourself for saying so. When you have nothing but personal insults you have nothing worthwhile to say.
 
crandc said:
I am not on drugs and go fuck yourself for saying so. When you have nothing but personal insults you have nothing worthwhile to say.
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Attack me first and then claim victim. You're such a cutie.
 
Scoop: U.S. put a hold on an ammunition shipment to Israel

The Biden administration last week put a hold on a shipment of U.S.-made ammunition to Israel, two Israeli officials told Axios.

Why it matters: It is the first time since the Oct. 7 attack that the U.S. has stopped a weapons shipment intended for the Israeli military.

  • The incident raised serious concerns inside the Israeli government and sent officials scrambling to understand why the shipment was held,Israeli officials said.
  • President Biden is facing sharp criticism among Americans who oppose his support of Israel. The administration in February asked Israel to provide assurances that U.S.-made weapons were being used by Israel Defense Forces in Gaza in accordance with international law. Israel provided a signed letter of assurances in March.
State of play: The Israeli officials said the ammunition shipment to Israelwas stopped last week.

  • The White House declined to comment.
  • The Pentagon, the State Department and the Israeli Prime Minister's Office didn't immediately respond to questions.
Driving the news: The Biden administration is highly concerned Israel will invade the southern Gaza city of Rafah where more than one million displaced Palestinians have been taking shelter.

  • Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu released several statements in recents days saying he intended to order an invasion of Rafah regardless of whether Israel and Hamas reach a deal for the release of hostages being held in Gaza and a ceasefire.
Netanyahu hinted at tensions with the Biden administration in a statement on Holocaust Remembrance Day issued Sunday.

  • "In the terrible Holocaust, there were great world leaders who stood by idly; therefore, the first lesson of the Holocaust is: If we do not defend ourselves, nobody will defend us. And if we need to stand alone, we will stand alone," he said.
Behind the scenes: Last Wednesday U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken visited Israel and had a"tough"conversation with Netanyahu regarding a possible Israeli operation in Rafah, two sources briefed on the meeting said.

  • Blinken told Netanyahu during their meeting that "a major military operation" in Rafah would lead to the U.S. publicly opposing it and would negatively impact U.S.-Israel relations.
  • A day later White House spokesman John Kirby told reporters that Israeli leaders understand that President Biden "is sincere" when he talks about the possibility of changes to U.S. policy regarding the Gaza war "should they move ahead with some sort of ground operation in Rafah that doesn't take into account the refugees."
  • White House National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said at a Financial Times conference in Washington on Saturday that the Biden administration made clear to Israel that the way it will conduct an operation in Rafah will influence U.S. policy towards the Gaza war.

The big picture: Egyptian and Qatari mediators are still trying to reach a hostage deal between Israel and Hamas that would lead to a pause in the fighting in Gaza.

  • The Biden administration is deeply involved in the efforts and CIA director Bill Burns joined talks in Cairo over the weekend.
  • Hamas in a statement on Friday said it was reviewing the current proposal with "positive spirit" and was "going to Cairo in the same spirit to reach an agreement."
While Israel waits for Hamas' response to the proposal, Netanyahu has issued several statements over the weekend saying he won't agree to end the war as part of a hostage deal.

  • Israeli Minister of Defense Yoav Gallant visited Israeli military forces in Gaza on Saturday and said Israel sees "worrying signals" that Hamas isn't going to move toward an agreement on releasing hostages.
  • "This means that an operation in Rafah and in other parts of Gaza will take place in the very near future," Gallant said.
https://www.axios.com/2024/05/05/israel-us-ammunition-shipment-hold
 
I thought Genocide Joe cutting off weapons wouldn't effect Israel?

https://www.axios.com/2024/05/05/israel-us-ammunition-shipment-hold

U.S. put a hold on an ammunition shipment to Israel
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SlyPokerDog said:
Scoop: U.S. put a hold on an ammunition shipment to Israel

The Biden administration last week put a hold on a shipment of U.S.-made ammunition to Israel, two Israeli officials told Axios.

Why it matters: It is the first time since the Oct. 7 attack that the U.S. has stopped a weapons shipment intended for the Israeli military.

  • The incident raised serious concerns inside the Israeli government and sent officials scrambling to understand why the shipment was held,Israeli officials said.
  • President Biden is facing sharp criticism among Americans who oppose his support of Israel. The administration in February asked Israel to provide assurances that U.S.-made weapons were being used by Israel Defense Forces in Gaza in accordance with international law. Israel provided a signed letter of assurances in March.
State of play: The Israeli officials said the ammunition shipment to Israelwas stopped last week.

  • The White House declined to comment.
  • The Pentagon, the State Department and the Israeli Prime Minister's Office didn't immediately respond to questions.
Driving the news: The Biden administration is highly concerned Israel will invade the southern Gaza city of Rafah where more than one million displaced Palestinians have been taking shelter.

  • Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu released several statements in recents days saying he intended to order an invasion of Rafah regardless of whether Israel and Hamas reach a deal for the release of hostages being held in Gaza and a ceasefire.
Netanyahu hinted at tensions with the Biden administration in a statement on Holocaust Remembrance Day issued Sunday.

  • "In the terrible Holocaust, there were great world leaders who stood by idly; therefore, the first lesson of the Holocaust is: If we do not defend ourselves, nobody will defend us. And if we need to stand alone, we will stand alone," he said.
Behind the scenes: Last Wednesday U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken visited Israel and had a"tough"conversation with Netanyahu regarding a possible Israeli operation in Rafah, two sources briefed on the meeting said.

  • Blinken told Netanyahu during their meeting that "a major military operation" in Rafah would lead to the U.S. publicly opposing it and would negatively impact U.S.-Israel relations.
  • A day later White House spokesman John Kirby told reporters that Israeli leaders understand that President Biden "is sincere" when he talks about the possibility of changes to U.S. policy regarding the Gaza war "should they move ahead with some sort of ground operation in Rafah that doesn't take into account the refugees."
  • White House National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said at a Financial Times conference in Washington on Saturday that the Biden administration made clear to Israel that the way it will conduct an operation in Rafah will influence U.S. policy towards the Gaza war.

The big picture: Egyptian and Qatari mediators are still trying to reach a hostage deal between Israel and Hamas that would lead to a pause in the fighting in Gaza.

  • The Biden administration is deeply involved in the efforts and CIA director Bill Burns joined talks in Cairo over the weekend.
  • Hamas in a statement on Friday said it was reviewing the current proposal with "positive spirit" and was "going to Cairo in the same spirit to reach an agreement."
While Israel waits for Hamas' response to the proposal, Netanyahu has issued several statements over the weekend saying he won't agree to end the war as part of a hostage deal.

  • Israeli Minister of Defense Yoav Gallant visited Israeli military forces in Gaza on Saturday and said Israel sees "worrying signals" that Hamas isn't going to move toward an agreement on releasing hostages.
  • "This means that an operation in Rafah and in other parts of Gaza will take place in the very near future," Gallant said.
https://www.axios.com/2024/05/05/israel-us-ammunition-shipment-hold
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They were supposed to be in Rafah today. They weren't. Could it be because of the weapons halt?

Nah. As some others have said, Joe Biden halting weapons wouldn't effect what Israel does despite this and another former military official suggesting so. Hhmmm...
 
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