Religion Mid East Religious War, Now with added USA Involvement!

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Sheldon Shape said:
The majority of THIS conflict and OTHER wars comes down to AIPAC and blackmail Israel has on our politicians.
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This war and other wars aren't the majority of our problems (as terrible as they are). We have internal problems we need to address before we can address the war problem.

Addressing the overall issue of money in politics (particularly money in Dem politics) addresses the AIPAC issue as well.

This is another one of those things where we're focusing on the smaller issue rather than the overall issue.

Democrats must stop doing that. They must narrow the focus on the root causes and keep hammering away at solutions to deal with those.

Otherwise their coalition is just too splintered and unfocused.
 
Well guys, it was nice knowing you. Maybe we'll see each other in the next dimension? Here's hoping!
 
Sheldon Shape said:
Russia is an ally of Iran. I'm not a fan of Tucker for what he was before, but I'm glad he's on the right side of history. Same with Piers Morgan. We'll take it. These are influential people.

What's unfortunate is you have very little in the way of Democrats saying anything about NOT going to war. That's because that AIPAC money flows both ways. Democrat or Republican it doesn't matter.

When the machine wants war, it gets it.
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The supreme wacko and his mullahs are the ones that have called for the annihilation of Israel for centuries and as much now. I’ve not heard Israel call for their annihilation ever. The sooner the religous goons are ousted the better for Iranians. The mullahs have been asking and provoking this for ever. Even the other arab countries want them gone.
 
Chris Craig said:
This is going to turn into a world war.
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Yes... I won't be official until a third superpower (EU or China) joins in opposition. Right now it's just US and Russia playing Let's You And Him Fight to destabilize the region.

The goal has always been global destabilization for economic gain. A world war is the biggest version of that, and will offer all those billionaires with money just sitting around doing nothing an opportunity to buy Europe, buy China, buy the Middle East. The new retinue of future kings awaits their opportunity to ascend.
 
Hoopguru said:
The supreme wacko and his mullahs are the ones that have called for the annihilation of Israel for centuries and as much now. I’ve not heard Israel call for their annihilation ever. The sooner the religous goons are ousted the better for Iranians. The mullahs have been asking and provoking this for ever. Even the other arab countries want them gone.
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"Can the US and Russia oust the regimes they put into power in the first place?" is a helluva question to be faced with.
 
If this thread contains much more fiber it's going to need to merge with the melo thread.
 
Hoopguru said:
The supreme wacko and his mullahs are the ones that have called for the annihilation of Israel for centuries and as much now. I’ve not heard Israel call for their annihilation ever. The sooner the religous goons are ousted the better for Iranians. The mullahs have been asking and provoking this for ever. Even the other arab countries want them gone.
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So a religious-based state, Israel, is going to dictate the leadership of another religious-based state, Iran. And that's something the US needs to jump into the middle of?

We're here today because the US overthrew the freely elected leader and installed the Shah. We ended Iran's free elections. We caused this.

Our own intelligence says Iran isn't close to a nuke, while the leader of Israel has been saying for years that Iran is days away from a nuke.

While I don't like the mullahs, I'm not sure that establishing Saudi Arabia as the clear power of the Islamic world, when their citizens, especially women, have fewer rights than the citizens in Iran.

This is a complex and volatile situation, one that our President, based on factual reports, doesn't take or listen to his daily security briefings, doesn't listen to his advisors, and is going to navigate with our interests, instead of looking for ways of self-enrichment?

We really need to stay the fuck out of this.
 
Hoopguru said:
The supreme wacko and his mullahs are the ones that have called for the annihilation of Israel for centuries and as much now. I’ve not heard Israel call for their annihilation ever. The sooner the religous goons are ousted the better for Iranians. The mullahs have been asking and provoking this for ever. Even the other arab countries want them gone.
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Funny, Israel has been chanting "death to Arabs" and the annihilation of Palestinians for decades. And guess what? They're actually doing it. We don't have to guess if it's just rhetoric or not.

As Tulsi Gabbard just said 3 months ago, Iran is nowhere close to developing nuclear weapons.

As if the Zios in Israel aren't religious wackos? They literally run an apartheid ethno-state. Jews in Iran have the same rights Muslims do. My opinion? Both regimes should go. But that's not how the world works.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
So a religious-based state, Israel, is going to dictate the leadership of another religious-based state, Iran. And that's something the US needs to jump into the middle of?

We're here today because the US overthrew the freely elected leader and installed the Shah. We ended Iran's free elections. We caused this.

Our own intelligence says Iran isn't close to a nuke, while the leader of Israel has been saying for years that Iran is days away from a nuke.

While I don't like the mullahs, I'm not sure that establishing Saudi Arabia as the clear power of the Islamic world, when their citizens, especially women, have fewer rights than the citizens in Iran.

This is a complex and volatile situation, one that our President, based on factual reports, doesn't take or listen to his daily security briefings, doesn't listen to his advisors, and is going to navigate with our interests, instead of looking for ways of self-enrichment?

We really need to stay the fuck out of this.
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Facts don't matter to these people who want to use our blood and our treasure.

If they hate the regime in Iran so much, let them pay for it's removal. We're literally subsidizing Israel in every respect.
 
Neither Istael nor nation state of Iran have existed for centuries.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
If you're talking about HoopGuru, he's not that way at all. Very knowledgeable and nice man.
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I don't know enough but I was referring to the general people who are neoconservatives that want us to spend our trillions and use our soldiers to bully the region.

Do it on your own if you want it that bad.
 
Sheldon Shape said:
Funny, Israel has been chanting "death to Arabs" and the annihilation of Palestinians for decades. And guess what? They're actually doing it. We don't have to guess if it's just rhetoric or not.

As Tulsi Gabbard just said 3 months ago, Iran is nowhere close to developing nuclear weapons.

As if the Zios in Israel aren't religious wackos? They literally run an apartheid ethno-state. Jews in Iran have the same rights Muslims do. My opinion? Both regimes should go. But that's not how the world works.
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Show me where chants of death to Shia muslims or muslims In general are taking place. Do you think that this regime is clean and its all Israel and Us?
 
Some corrections:
Sly:
Israel is not a 'religious-based' state. Jews are the people from Judeah. Just like the Persians are the people from Paras.
The Nazis didnt kill you for praticing Judasim, they killed you for your ancestry. Converting didn't work for the Jewish people - they were killed either way.
The fact while in diasphora the People of Judeah kept their connection as a 'People' by practicing jewish ceremonies and religion doesn't goes to show Israel is religious-based. It is People-based - the Jewish people (From Judeah).

To Sheldon:
As I have noted previously in the thread:
Israel are not chanting 'Death to Arabs'.
Keep saying it won't make it true.. but a lie told over and over does become the consensus.
You claim facts dont matter to 'these' people but you are unable to acknowledge you are not holding factual information.
Lets test the theory:
Go and find a single qoute sourcing an Israeli leader (PM, President) calling for death arabs over the history.

Facts: some Israeli political current active in knesset have called that (Ben Gvir) - but he is not a leader nor any consensus figure in Israel. (He is extreme right hawk minority).
On the other hand; the IRGC and ayatollah himself (supreme leader of Iran) called over and over and in many occasions and parades for Death to America and Death to Israel. Fact.

Can you acknowldge and are you willing to see this reality?

So when you keep chanting slogens, make sure you do as you preach.

Welcome to Fact check me. I will be more than happy to learn I am wrong.
 
Sheldon Shape said:
I don't know enough but I was referring to the general people who are neoconservatives that want us to spend our trillions and use our soldiers to bully the region.

Do it on your own if you want it that bad.
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So this is callled projection.
You Generelize the Agenda that matter to you and apply it automatically when you get hints it might be relevant.
If you recall correctly - in a lot of my previous comments I asked or tryed to clarify what or whom I was reffering to. Assuming is a problem right now. I say JD vance assuming one thing only to learn people here see my post and understand it very differently than what I intended. (The Job description vs source being not reliable discussion).
Lets not assume and lets not project. Have humility and listen to other people views. Even when we are sure we are right.
 
Hoopguru said:
Show me where chants of death to Shia muslims or muslims In general are taking place. Do you think that this regime is clean and its all Israel and Us?
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I think I've made it clear. I despise this regime and what they've done to the Iranian people. But I can divorce those feelings from an imminent war breaking out on trumped up charges of nuclear weapons. That's just simply not the case and Tulsi Gabbard told us so just three months ago. They've never shown interest in developing nuclear weapons - which was a mistake if you're trying to hold onto power. It's a deterrent. Ask Kim Jung-Un, who you don't hear about anymore because the U.S. stopped its campaign since it was of no use.
 
Sheldon Shape said:
Same Allah who gave the values to the people who allowed the Jews into Palestine when they had nowhere else to go.

Keep up the slander.
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Fact checking again.
'Allowed the Jews into Palestine'.
A. The british allowed to Jews into Palestine.
B. Palestine was and is a name given by the greek to the region.. it was previouly named Israel and Judea and Samaria.

The Palestinian people are historically relativly 'new' people (identified as such in late 1970s).

Just some undisputed factual information people debating should know.

edit (added some supporing texts):
[The earliest written record referring to Palestine as a geographical region is in the Histories of Herodotus in the 5th century BCE, which calls the area Palaistine, referring to the territory previously held by Philistia, a state that existed in that area from the 12th to the 7th century BCE. The Roman Empire conquered the region and in 6 CE established the province known as Judaea]
 
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2Fluffy4U said:
So this is callled projection.
You Generelize the Agenda that matter to you and apply it automatically when you get hints it might be relevant.
If you recall correctly - in a lot of my previous comments I asked or tryed to clarify what or whom I was reffering to. Assuming is a problem right now. I say JD vance assuming one thing only to learn people here see my post and understand it very differently than what I intended. (The Job description vs source being not reliable discussion).
Lets not assume and lets not project. Have humility and listen to other people views. Even when we are sure we are right.
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Brother, I didn't disregard the ICJ. That was you.
I didn't disregard the rest of the world outside of the U.S. and Europe. That was you.
I didn't (laughably) charge Qatar with influencing the people of the U.S. That was you.

People keep telling me Iran wants to erase Israel off the planet when Israel is erasing an entire population of people off the planet... ON TV. ON SOCIAL MEDIA. EVERYWHERE.

We need more self-awareness from everyone if we want to co-exist peacefully.
 
If you think:
"People keep telling me Iran wants to erase Israel off the planet when Israel is erasing an entire population of people off the planet... ONTV. ON SOCIAL MEDIA. EVERYWHERE."

Then yeah. We are lost.
The funny thing is that both Iranians and Israelis and region Arabs know what you said is wrong. But you are sure of it as true..
Sadly I cant do anything about it..
 
2Fluffy4U said:
If you think:
"People keep telling me Iran wants to erase Israel off the planet when Israel is erasing an entire population of people off the planet... ONTV. ON SOCIAL MEDIA. EVERYWHERE."

Then yeah. We are lost.
The funny thing is that both Iranians and Israelis and region Arabs know what you said is wrong. But you are sure of it as true..
Sadly I cant do anything about it..
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The Arab leaders who were installed by the west don't supersede the ICJ - but I noticed you didn't acknowledge the ICJ's ruling. Definitely lost and definitely lacking self-awareness.

There's no reason to continue when facts aren't even agreed upon. I wish you well and hope you realize Israel started this war.
 
Sheldon Shape said:
The Arab leaders who were installed by the west don't supersede the ICJ - but I noticed you didn't acknowledge the ICJ's ruling. Definitely lost and definitely lacking self-awareness.

There's no reason to continue when facts aren't even agreed upon. I wish you well and hope you realize Israel started this war.
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My apololgies. Can you clatify your point about ICJ - not sure I know what this means.. and then I will be happy to address it.
 
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