Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters

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Denny Crane said:
The evidence being they confessed to starting the fires vs something the prosecution proved.

SMH
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Confessions are certainly good evidence. But I think there was more to the prosecutions case than the confessions.

barfo
 
"Government should maul its citizens"
--barfo
 
barfo said:
Confessions are certainly good evidence. But I think there was more to the prosecutions case than the confessions.

barfo
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7 other charges were dropped. Insufficient evidence, or whatever excuse you can think of.
 
barfo said:
Sure. So?

barfo
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So government didn't prove anything.

A law meant to be used against terrorists burning down public works was used against them. Jury had little choice because they admitted they set fires, which is what people have traditionally done there for centuries. The judge thought it was a sham.

The government mauled them.
 
I get the impression that some people think our court system is designed to prove who is guilty or innocent and being fair while doing it.

The sad truth is, our court system is all about procedure, not who is right or wrong. The side that comes out ahead is the side that exerts the most pressure on the procedure process without making mistakes in the process. The process can be abused to come out ahead, such as outspending the opposition and their resources. Other times the process can be abused by testing a new law, as is being done to the Hammonds.

Notice I did not say which side wins the case, but which side comes out ahead. My personal opinion is the only ones that win in court cases are the attorneys. Win or lose, all of the attorneys involved feed their kid's college funds.
 
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barfo said:
Doesn't make the bear right, but it does make the Hammonds kind of stupid.
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Oh, that is worth jail time!! Very good for voter turnout! Our big City voters will love it!!

Fuck!
 
oldfisherman said:
I get the impression that some people think our court system is designed to prove who is guilty or innocent and being fair while doing it.

The sad truth is, our court system is all about procedure, not who is right or wrong. The side that comes out ahead is the side that exerts the most pressure on the procedure process without making mistakes in the process. The process can be abused to come out ahead, such as outspending the opposition and their resources. Other times the process can be abused by testing a new law, as is being done to the Hammonds.

Notice I did not say which side wins the case, but which side comes out ahead. My personal opinion is the only ones that win in court cases are the attorneys. Win or lose, all of the attorneys involved feed their kid's college funds.
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The courts are supposed to be one of two things: determine the truth or administer justice. The two are at odds.

If you can't win at the ballot box, you find a biased judge who is on your side.
 
Denny Crane said:
So government didn't prove anything.

A law meant to be used against terrorists burning down public works was used against them. Jury had little choice because they admitted they set fires, which is what people have traditionally done there for centuries. The judge thought it was a sham.

The government mauled them.
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Maybe... here's a thought... they shouldn't have set the fires?

barfo
 
Can someone please answer a very basic question for me. How is it that starting a fire can cover up poaching? Isn't the evidence gone once you pick up the deer and remove it from the land where it can't be shot?
 
WarriorFan said:
Can someone please answer a very basic question for me. How is it that starting a fire can cover up poaching? Isn't the evidence gone once you pick up the deer and remove it from the land where it can't be shot?
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Maybe they shot the deer and then, found a fake decoy deer. Maybe a plush one? They put the plush deer in the forest. Then they burn the forest and everyone assumes that the burnt up plush deer was the deer that used to be on government lands. There actually is a fictionalized reenactment of this in a movie I once saw. I think it was called Bambi.
 
Sedatedfork said:
Maybe they shot the deer and then, found a fake decoy deer. Maybe a plush one? They put the plush deer in the forest. Then they burn the forest and everyone assumes that the burnt up plush deer was the deer that used to be on government lands. There actually is a fictionalized reenactment of this in a movie I once saw. I think it was called Bambi.
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And then they stored a bunch of emails on Hillary's secret server and blamed it on her.
 
Denny Crane said:
So government didn't prove anything.

A law meant to be used against terrorists burning down public works was used against them. Jury had little choice because they admitted they set fires, which is what people have traditionally done there for centuries.
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Keeping slaves is what people have traditionally done there for centuries too, but now it is a Federal crime, as is poaching and destroying evidence and recklessly endangering lives and arson for profit...
 
WarriorFan said:
Can someone please answer a very basic question for me. How is it that starting a fire can cover up poaching? Isn't the evidence gone once you pick up the deer and remove it from the land where it can't be shot?
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Almost half of a deer is guts, which are usually left at the site of the kill and cleaned up by crows and coyotes over the next week or so depending on the weather.
 
MARIS61 said:
Almost half of a deer is guts, which are usually left at the site of the kill and cleaned up by crows and coyotes over the next week or so depending on the weather.
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not only that, but the legs are also cut off and left behind. I came upon a spot a while ago that must have had 20 legs spread out and hundreds of pounds in gut piles. Its much easier to carry out only the parts you want to keep. A different time on a hike I found a deer that must have been shot a dozen times. nothing was carted away, it was just target practice for some asshole.

As far as this topic goes, I just don't know enough and don't feel like going down the rabbit hole to try and figure it all out. From a glance, seems like you have a few groups. 1) the original people who got arrested who likely were a bunch of peckerwoods, but got screwed by power hungry people too. And 2) the "patriots" whom I believe are very misguided but mostly have good intentions, 3) the law enforcement who should be commended for not turning this into some unneeded shootout.
 
WarriorFan said:
Can someone please answer a very basic question for me. How is it that starting a fire can cover up poaching? Isn't the evidence gone once you pick up the deer and remove it from the land where it can't be shot?
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MARIS61 said:
Almost half of a deer is guts, which are usually left at the site of the kill and cleaned up by crows and coyotes over the next week or so depending on the weather.
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A large forest wildfire is not going to destroy all of the poaching evidence that is laying on the ground, but it might cook some of it. A brush fire will do very little damage to poaching evidence. (the Hammond's are accused of setting a brush fire, not a forest fire)

If? The hunting guide had reported the poaching soon after the brush fire started? The Oregon Fish & Wildlife dept would have investigated the sight when it was safe to do so. They have enforcement officers on call to make quick responses to poaching reports. (a phone call to 800-452-7888 poaching hotline will get an investigator on sight fast, there is a $250 reward for turning in a deer poacher, if convicted) The dept. enforcement officers are a division of the Oregon state police, and could have charged the Hammond's with poaching. The only mention I see of poaching was made at the trial by the guide, not by any enforcement officer or govt. prosecutor.

Most people do not know this, but the Fish & Wildlife service has a very complete forensic lab similar to forensic labs used by state police and the FBI. Even if a fire damaged the poaching evidence, there is a lot they could have learned from it to help in a poaching trial.

The entire poaching topic, if it even occurred, is a blue herring topic.
 
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Poaching is a very serious problem we all need to help fight.
Here is the 800 hotline number to turn in a poacher in Oregon.

1-800-452-7888.

The Turn-In-Poachers (TIP) reward is paid for information leading to the arrest/conviction of person(s) for the illegal possession, killing, taking, and/or waste of fish, wildlife or habitat.
  • $100 Game Fish
  • $100 Upland Birds
  • $200 Habitat
  • $250 Deer, Bear, Antelope, and Cougar
  • $500 Elk, Big Horn Sheep, Moose, and Mountain Goat
 
Hollywood could not dream up this ending for the armed occupation of the wildlife refuge.

Militants stole two govt. vehicles from the refuge.
http://www.opb.org/news/series/burn...nection-with-stolen-refuge-vehicles/?t=647520

The Burns Paiute Tribe is seeking criminal charges against the armed occupiers of Oregon’s Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, accusing the men of damaging important cultural resources on the tribe’s native land.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/‘w...ut-ore-refuge-artifacts/ar-BBogFqX?li=BBnb7Kz
 
wtzy8.jpg
 
This is great.

http://thelapine.ca/79-year-old-bir...militant-with-old-high-school-wrestling-move/

79-Year-Old Bird Watcher Takes Down Oregon Militant With Old High School Wrestling Move
by The Lapine · January 10, 2016

BURNS, OREGON — Grandfather of four Robert Saunders says he was just out to check on some young burrowing owls at the crack of dawn this morning when he was confronted by a “red-faced pudgy man with a big gun”.

And things got physical when Saunders refused the barked orders to halt and identify himself.

But it wasn’t the retired teacher who ended up on the ground.

“Well heck, one second he was warming his hands by this kind of puny little fire and the next second he was running at me and shouting to get down on the ground,” Saunders told reporters gathered near the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

“Made me mad really. It’s public property and here this guy is acting all big and tough and pushy.”

“I don’t swear much at all but I told him to screw right off and that made him really angry. He started yelling right into my face — his breath was…well, pee you…it smelled like beer and maybe salami sausages or something.”

“So I said there was no darn way I was getting down on the ground and he poked me in the shoulder — so, yeah, I did a leg take-down. Didn’t know I even remembered that old move. Did it without even thinking about it. Haha.”
“He landed pretty hard on his back and I could tell he was winded because he started moaning and trying to suck air into his lungs. And that was that.”

An FBI spokesperson at the entrance to the refuge told reporters that this is the first reported instance of any conflict between the occupying militant group and locals but warned that things could escalate quickly as other armed militants continue to arrive by the truckload.

“We’re hoping this is an isolated incident and we’re asking the elderly not to knock any more militants on their ass,” said the grinning FBI agent.
 
MARIS61 said:
This is great.

http://thelapine.ca/79-year-old-bir...militant-with-old-high-school-wrestling-move/

79-Year-Old Bird Watcher Takes Down Oregon Militant With Old High School Wrestling Move
by The Lapine · January 10, 2016

BURNS, OREGON — Grandfather of four Robert Saunders says he was just out to check on some young burrowing owls at the crack of dawn this morning when he was confronted by a “red-faced pudgy man with a big gun”.

And things got physical when Saunders refused the barked orders to halt and identify himself.

But it wasn’t the retired teacher who ended up on the ground.

“Well heck, one second he was warming his hands by this kind of puny little fire and the next second he was running at me and shouting to get down on the ground,” Saunders told reporters gathered near the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

“Made me mad really. It’s public property and here this guy is acting all big and tough and pushy.”

“I don’t swear much at all but I told him to screw right off and that made him really angry. He started yelling right into my face — his breath was…well, pee you…it smelled like beer and maybe salami sausages or something.”

“So I said there was no darn way I was getting down on the ground and he poked me in the shoulder — so, yeah, I did a leg take-down. Didn’t know I even remembered that old move. Did it without even thinking about it. Haha.”
“He landed pretty hard on his back and I could tell he was winded because he started moaning and trying to suck air into his lungs. And that was that.”

An FBI spokesperson at the entrance to the refuge told reporters that this is the first reported instance of any conflict between the occupying militant group and locals but warned that things could escalate quickly as other armed militants continue to arrive by the truckload.

“We’re hoping this is an isolated incident and we’re asking the elderly not to knock any more militants on their ass,” said the grinning FBI agent.
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Wow! Real loonies have take over the refuge now. No good can come from confronting bird watchers. What are they thinking?
 
I think the residents of Burns need a new police department and sheriff that will stand up to these bozos
 
riverman said:
I think the residents of Burns need a new police department and sheriff that will stand up to these bozos
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That refuge is a long way out of Burns, maybe a 100 miles. The Sheriff may not even cover the area since it is Federal land.
 
...title should read "alleged millitant" :dunno: since we all know FBI agent provocateurs are having some fun with the locals in the area!
 
Has there been an act of violence yet?

Granted, taking the govt. vehicle to town to go shopping wasn't very bright.
 
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