Miller and Oden... who'd a thunk it?

[Natebishop3]

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/11/portland_122_chicago_98_everyt.html

Oden said it was Miller who planted a seed in his mind to attack.

"He's a big breath of fresh air for me," Oden said. "When he comes into the game, he's like, 'G.O., we are going to run a play for you so you can try to get the other big man in foul trouble.' That definitely puts a big smile on my face. I turned my head and had a big smile."

This is what some of us have been saying all year. Miller is the guy who is getting GO the ball, and it's obvious that Oden has been frustrated with some of the other guards inability to feed him in the post.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I woulda thunk it

 

[Idog1976]

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/11/portland_122_chicago_98_everyt.html



This is what some of us have been saying all year. Miller is the guy who is getting GO the ball, and it's obvious that Oden has been frustrated with some of the other guards inability to feed him in the post.

Yeah the "breath of fresh air" comment was kind of telling. Rudy gets GO the rock too. The Blake era needs to end in the worst way. I would rather see Rudy, Roy and Webs or Rudy, Roy and Miller then the current lineup. Rudy should provide the range we need.

PG Miller
SG Rudy
SF Roy
PF LMA
C Oden

looks great except for Roy defending SF's. Man I wish Batum was healthy. I'm just not sure how we get Miller in as a starter without having a SF who can drain the 3 ball with some regularity. I'm not saying Batum could, but at least I would feel secure with our SF slot.

PG Roy
SG Rudy
SF Webster
PF LMA
C Oden

That looks fairly promising as well. Problem then is defending PG's. I say have Rudy do it.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/11/portland_122_chicago_98_everyt.html



This is what some of us have been saying all year. Miller is the guy who is getting GO the ball, and it's obvious that Oden has been frustrated with some of the other guards inability to feed him in the post.

And don't think his feelings on this issue won't impact any potential ideas of moving Andre.

 

[Idog1976]

And don't think his feelings on this issue won't impact any potential ideas of moving Andre.

The key is to get Oden and Roy to click and be on the same page. When that happens this team will be a Juggernaut.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

The key is to get Oden and Roy to click and be on the same page. When that happens this team will be a Juggernaut.

I loved the balance last night. I thought the inside, outside game was executed perfectly.

 

[Natebishop3]

The key is to get Oden and Roy to click and be on the same page. When that happens this team will be a Juggernaut.

I've said it before, but I would love to see Roy take on a Penny Hardaway type role, like when he and Shaq were on the Magic together.

[video=youtube;bAo0FJrDbDc]

[video=youtube;DvuLprzx06o]

 

[Minstrel]

I've said it before, but I would love to see Roy take on a Penny Hardaway type role, like when he and Shaq were on the Magic together.

Penny was a special talent. I think Roy could play that sort of game, and I'd be thrilled if Roy could get that sort of on-court chemistry with Oden (Shaq and Penny supposedly had off-court issues, but that seems to be a Shaq thing, considering his issues with Kobe).

 

[Nikolokolus]

I've said it before, but I would love to see Roy take on a Penny Hardaway type role, like when he and Shaq were on the Magic together.

That's not a bad wish. I just think it needs to click for Roy at some point that Oden will also pass him the ball on cuts along the baseline and through the lane much like that give and go between Dre and Greg a few games back.

I'm not terribly worried long-run. It's clear to me that almost none of these guys (guards especially) have ever played basketball with a dominant post player, it does take time for guys to figure out how to make post entry passes and hopefully guys will also realize that Oden can receive a helluva lot more lobs than he's getting because he does such a great job sealing his man.

The more Greg passes out of doubles and then reposts the more rhythm these guys will get into. If the guards can play like they did last night, by letting the inside game develop early to open up their outside game then I think the Miller-Roy pairing can work -- their 20 minutes of overlapping play last night helped convince me that it is indeed possible.

 

[Natebishop3]

Penny was a special talent. I think Roy could play that sort of game, and I'd be thrilled if Roy could get that sort of on-court chemistry with Oden (Shaq and Penny supposedly had off-court issues, but that seems to be a Shaq thing, considering his issues with Kobe).

He really was. I loved watching Penny when he was young and in his prime (before the injury).

 

[Minstrel]

He really was. I loved watching Penny when he was young and in his prime (before the injury).

Me too. Penny and Grant Hill were two of my favourite players of the '90s. Similar types of players, IMO.

 

[Natebishop3]

Me too. Penny and Grant Hill were two of my favourite players of the '90s. Similar types of players, IMO.

And both were cut down by injuries. If Grant hadn't been injured before going to Orlando, I wonder how good that Magic team would have been with McGrady and Hill both in their primes.

 

[hasoos]

Penny was a special talent. I think Roy could play that sort of game, and I'd be thrilled if Roy could get that sort of on-court chemistry with Oden (Shaq and Penny supposedly had off-court issues, but that seems to be a Shaq thing, considering his issues with Kobe).

I totally concur that is what I would like to see happen. I think it could happen. But one of the things that lineup had going, is the one thing which I harp on (to a fault) is that I would like the Blazers to go big. On the Magic, their 3 perimeter guys were Hardaway, Anderson, and Dennis Scott. The shortest of those guys was Anderson at 6'6" tall. The key was, all of them could shoot from 3 point land. Having a taller point guard was an enabler. For the most part, Hardaway could see over the top of and make post entry passes over smaller opponents with ease. He could also post up, which is another one of Roys strengths. If anything, the travesty with that Orlando team, was that it was never held together long enough to see what it could do. It took a very veteran Houston team with one of the best centers of all time to beat them.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I have used the Penny comparison before too, Nate. The Blazers would do themselves a favor by sitting Roy, Oden and Aldridge in a film room and play video of Penny, Shaq and Grant.

 

[Natebishop3]

I totally concur that is what I would like to see happen. I think it could happen. But one of the things that lineup had going, is the one thing which I harp on (to a fault) is that I would like the Blazers to go big. On the Magic, their 3 perimeter guys were Hardaway, Anderson, and Dennis Scott. The shortest of those guys was Anderson at 6'6" tall. The key was, all of them could shoot from 3 point land. Having a taller point guard was an enabler. For the most part, Hardaway could see over the top of and make post entry passes over smaller opponents with ease. He could also post up, which is another one of Roys strengths. If anything, the travesty with that Orlando team, was that it was never held together long enough to see what it could do. It took a very veteran Houston team with one of the best centers of all time to beat them.

They could get away with that back when because hand checking was still allowed. A bigger player like Hardaway could hand check a smaller player and prevent him from blowing by.

 

[Minstrel]

I totally concur that is what I would like to see happen. I think it could happen. But one of the things that lineup had going, is the one thing which I harp on (to a fault) is that I would like the Blazers to go big. On the Magic, their 3 perimeter guys were Hardaway, Anderson, and Dennis Scott. The shortest of those guys was Anderson at 6'6" tall.

That was more of a big guard era, though, I think. And their main competition was the Bulls, who also played a big perimeter (Harper, Jordan, Pippen). These days, especially with ban on hand-checking, we're in a small guard era. A perimeter like Orlando's would get penetrated pretty badly by all the smaller, quicker guards.

I love size 2-5 (and used to love the idea of a big point guard too...I wanted the Blazers to try moving Pippen to point guard), but I think in this era of the NBA, you need to have a quick defender at point guard. That's why I'm a big proponent of an eventual Bayless/Roy backcourt, because Bayless has the quickness and intensity to be a very good defender of the Tony Parkers and Chris Pauls of the world (as good a defender as one can be against such players).

 

[Ed O]

I think that Oden, like Dwight Jaynes, has just been reading this board and decided to mimic our arguments about Miller. We don't know what we're talking about and clearly Oden doesn't, either.

Blake from '08 all the way!!1!

Ed O.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think that Oden, like Dwight Jaynes, has just been reading this board and decided to mimic our arguments about Miller. We don't know what we're talking about and clearly Oden doesn't, either.

Blake from '08 all the way!!1!

Ed O.

Blake '08!!!

 

[Minstrel]

I think what we have here is a good, old-fashioned grand melee. Roy has picked his favourite point guard. Oden has picked his. Who wins? This is now ROY VERSUS ODEN AND ONLY ONE CAN SURVIVE.

Time for Blazer survivor, but this time only two names.

Oden 50
Roy 50

 

[hasoos]

You are either a team with a fast penetrating guard, or you are a team that is victimized by them. All defenses get penetrated pretty badly by small fast guards these days. Look across the league. Do you see anybody that is known as a stopper for these guys? For the most part, the best you can wish for is to deal out more than you receive on the bad end. The only way to defend these guys is within the team concept. By going big, you give them a problem to deal with if you do it right.

Look at the game against Golden State. Roy was having problems going one on one with the faster Ellis because of how he was attacking the situation. He was getting the ball out high and trying to dribble in. That is tough against a fast player. But if he had run down to the post without the ball, and received it there, then Ellis is in his house of pain. The type of pain that deals fouls and gets pesky fast guards out of the game.

Secondly, a big guard like Roy can shoot jumpers all day over a smaller guard like they aren't even there.

Lastly I would point out Rudy is actually much better at defending faster guards than he is physical guards. He is built for speed and length. That is why he leads the team in steals. When he got matched up with Crawford who bodies him up, it wasn't so pretty.

It's all about making the game your game, not the other teams game. Make them deal with the problems you inflict on them. Play the game at your pace, and keep it in your comfort zone. The more you make the game comfortable for your team, and away from the comfort zone other teams like to play in, the better your chances for victory. Going big pretty much forces every team in the league to adjust what the Blazers do, if the Blazers enforce their will on the other teams.

Look at the Golden State game. Should those 7 guys have beat the Blazers? No. But they made the game be played at their comfort zone/pace, and Don Nelson tricked Nate into matching up with him instead of playing to his strengths. End result? Golden State puts one in the W column. That is the power of playing the game in your comfort zone. It is also why a running team will never win a championship. A good slow down team can always control the pace of the game, and take them out of their fast paced game. .

 

[Natebishop3]

You are either a team with a fast penetrating guard, or you are a team that is victimized by them. All defenses get penetrated pretty badly by small fast guards these days. Look across the league. Do you see anybody that is known as a stopper for these guys? For the most part, the best you can wish for is to deal out more than you receive on the bad end. The only way to defend these guys is within the team concept. By going big, you give them a problem to deal with if you do it right.

Look at the game against Golden State. Roy was having problems going one on one with the faster Ellis because of how he was attacking the situation. He was getting the ball out high and trying to dribble in. That is tough against a fast player. But if he had run down to the post without the ball, and received it there, then Ellis is in his house of pain. The type of pain that deals fouls and gets pesky fast guards out of the game.

Secondly, a big guard like Roy can shoot jumpers all day over a smaller guard like they aren't even there.

Lastly I would point out Rudy is actually much better at defending faster guards than he is physical guards. He is built for speed and length. That is why he leads the team in steals. When he got matched up with Crawford who bodies him up, it wasn't so pretty.

It's all about making the game your game, not the other teams game. Make them deal with the problems you inflict on them. Play the game at your pace, and keep it in your comfort zone. The more you make the game comfortable for your team, and away from the comfort zone other teams like to play in, the better your chances for victory. Going big pretty much forces every team in the league to adjust what the Blazers do, if the Blazers enforce their will on the other teams.

Look at the Golden State game. Should those 7 guys have beat the Blazers? No. But they made the game be played at their comfort zone/pace, and Don Nelson tricked Nate into matching up with him instead of playing to his strengths. End result? Golden State puts one in the W column. That is the power of playing the game in your comfort zone. It is also why a running team will never win a championship. A good slow down team can always control the pace of the game, and take them out of their fast paced game. .

This is exactly why I've been saying that I wish Roy would develop a post game ala Michael Jordan or Kobe. If Roy could take his man into the post, it would equalize the size mismatch on defense.

 

[magnifier661]

You are either a team with a fast penetrating guard, or you are a team that is victimized by them. All defenses get penetrated pretty badly by small fast guards these days. Look across the league. Do you see anybody that is known as a stopper for these guys? For the most part, the best you can wish for is to deal out more than you receive on the bad end. The only way to defend these guys is within the team concept. By going big, you give them a problem to deal with if you do it right.

Look at the game against Golden State. Roy was having problems going one on one with the faster Ellis because of how he was attacking the situation. He was getting the ball out high and trying to dribble in. That is tough against a fast player. But if he had run down to the post without the ball, and received it there, then Ellis is in his house of pain. The type of pain that deals fouls and gets pesky fast guards out of the game.

Secondly, a big guard like Roy can shoot jumpers all day over a smaller guard like they aren't even there.

Lastly I would point out Rudy is actually much better at defending faster guards than he is physical guards. He is built for speed and length. That is why he leads the team in steals. When he got matched up with Crawford who bodies him up, it wasn't so pretty.

It's all about making the game your game, not the other teams game. Make them deal with the problems you inflict on them. Play the game at your pace, and keep it in your comfort zone. The more you make the game comfortable for your team, and away from the comfort zone other teams like to play in, the better your chances for victory. Going big pretty much forces every team in the league to adjust what the Blazers do, if the Blazers enforce their will on the other teams.

Look at the Golden State game. Should those 7 guys have beat the Blazers? No. But they made the game be played at their comfort zone/pace, and Don Nelson tricked Nate into matching up with him instead of playing to his strengths. End result? Golden State puts one in the W column. That is the power of playing the game in your comfort zone. It is also why a running team will never win a championship. A good slow down team can always control the pace of the game, and take them out of their fast paced game. .

I 100% Agree. I think some of it is Nate not ever having a dominate force down low, playing or coaching. It's very new to him and he's starting to understand it more and more. A team like GS, plays against the team that played last night would literally crush that team.

Patience is the next key for our success. So what if their guards are scoring at will in the first two quarters. I would just come right back and pound the ball into the post, or post up all their guards over and over again.

Remember those players played 48 minutes. If they had to play all 48 minutes on both ends of the court, by the time 4th comes around, they will be winded and easy to manage. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

 

[PapaG]

I think that Oden, like Dwight Jaynes, has just been reading this board and decided to mimic our arguments about Miller. We don't know what we're talking about and clearly Oden doesn't, either.

Blake from '08 all the way!!1!

Ed O.

Or, probably not.

Shaq averaged 29ppg/11.5rpg in the Finals season with Hardaway.

Unless some or you are saying that Andre Miller can become Penny Hardaway, I have no clue what this thread is about.

Did I miss Roy putting up Penny-like numbers last night? Miller had a nice little game too. He assisted on 1 Oden basket.

 

[Ed O]

Or, probably not.

Shaq averaged 29ppg/11.5rpg in the Finals season with Hardaway.

Unless some or you are saying that Andre Miller can become Penny Hardaway, I have no clue what this thread is about.

Did I miss Roy putting up Penny-like numbers last night? Miller had a nice little game too. He assisted on 3 Oden baskets.

What are you talking about? Did you accidentally quote my post?

This thread (or at least my post in it) is about how Oden likes playing with Miller and seems to PREFER him to Blake.

Ed O.

 

[PapaG]

What are you talking about? Did you accidentally quote my post?

This thread (or at least my post in it) is about how Oden likes playing with Miller and seems to PREFER him to Blake.

Ed O.

Where did you get that he prefers Miller to Blake? Are you putting words into Oden's mouth and deriving intent from something he didn't say? If so, it would appear that Oden is blasting Roy, since Roy handles the ball more with Miller out of the line-up.

The Steve Blake '08 comment was a tell, btw, of your real intent for your post.

 

[PapaG]

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/11/portland_122_chicago_98_everyt.html



This is what some of us have been saying all year. Miller is the guy who is getting GO the ball, and it's obvious that Oden has been frustrated with some of the other guards inability to feed him in the post.

What is obvious? I don't see him saying he's been frustrated by the other guards.

 

[andalusian]

Miller is very nice for this team, as long as it is remembered where he fits in the hierarchy. He is a complementary piece, on a short-term basis due to his age. As long as we do not take away from Roy to accommodate Miller, it's a win-win. Sure, it is nice that he helps Greg develop. But, the goal, long term, is to get Roy, LMA and Oden synchronized.

Miller has been averaging 10 shots per game (3rd on the team) until the 2nd starting unit change happened. This is not a good idea when he is #10 on the team in TS% (or was, before last night, did not check it yet). In the last 2 games, he took 3 and 6 shots (that's 9 for both games). When this happens - he is a net positive. It's as simple as this. Add the fact that Roy seems to be back to being himself, driving hard into the post - and Miller, as he has played in the last 2 games is great. Which comes to show that Nate had a pretty good idea what he was doing.

 

[PapaG]

Miller is very nice for this team, as long as it is remembered where he fits in the hierarchy. He is a complementary piece, on a short-term basis due to his age. As long as we do not take away from Roy to accommodate Miller, it's a win-win. Sure, it is nice that he helps Greg develop. But, the goal, long term, is to get Roy, LMA and Oden synchronized.

Miller has been averaging 10 shots per game (3rd on the team) until the 2nd starting unit change happened. This is not a good idea when he is #10 on the team in TS% (or was, before last night, did not check it yet). In the last 2 games, he took 3 and 6 shots (that's 9 for both games). When this happens - he is a net positive. It's as simple as this. Add the fact that Roy seems to be back to being himself, driving hard into the post - and Miller, as he has played in the last 2 games is great. Which comes to show that Nate had a pretty good idea what he was doing.

If Miller can accept this role, he seems perfectly suited to come off of the bench and stop the 2nd quarter droughts that the Blazers have seen since Outlaw got injured.

I just want everybody to play well, and if Miller is in at the end of games and producing, that's a huge plus for this team.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Does anyone have or can get the stat of how many assists Blake has with Oden vs. Miller and Oden.

Blake constantly gets abused on this board as being unable to get the ball to Oden. Everytime I read taht and then watch the game, iIm watcvhing Blake get the ball to Oden . . . I don't know who does it better, but the statemment that Blake is incapable of feeding the post is flat our wrong.

And I agree with papag, Oden is not advocatiing for Miller to start . . . unlike Roy who was very clear on his statements.

 

[Natebishop3]

What is obvious? I don't see him saying he's been frustrated by the other guards.

You should change your name to Devils Advocate.

I think it's pretty telling from his "breath of fresh air" statement about Miller. If Miller is a "breath of fresh air," what does that make Roy and Blake?