Miller Suspended!

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RoyToy said:
It's clear the league has set a precedent on what deserves a suspension and what doesn't. Miller's play clearly meets that precedent and the Fisher play is just one example.
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I wasn't arguing that the league was being inconsistent, and I haven't seen anyone else argue that.

Not much to argue here.
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Not against your strawman, no. About whether he deserved a suspension, there's plenty to argue.
 
Back on topic, there is just something a little bit awesome about seeing Blake get absolutely destroyed like that when he'd been taking cheap shots on Miller the two or three possessions before.
 
Minstrel said:
I wasn't arguing that the league was being inconsistent, and I haven't seen anyone else argue that.



Not against your strawman, no. About whether he deserved a suspension, there's plenty to argue.
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Well what's next then? Time to move the 3pt line back? Raise the basket to 12ft? Have to win by more than 1? What should the NBA do to make Minstrel happy?

Running down the court and purposely laying a big hit on another player is almost the same thing as fighting which can get you a multiple game suspension. Since it's not swinging fists it's less severe and it's consistent with pass rulings. Again, there's not much to argue.
 
You don't understand that someone might argue that players shouldn't be expelled for such infractions?

Your logic is that they always are under Stern's monarchy, so it follows that they should be. That's the tautology of a fascist who equates the legal code with the moral code. For example, in Bush's recent TV interviews promoting his book, he was asked why he thinks torture is alright. His answer was that his lawyer said it was legal.
 
RoyToy said:
Well what's next then? Time to move the 3pt line back? Raise the basket to 12ft? Have to win by more than 1? What should the NBA do to make Minstrel happy?
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I wouldn't mind widening and lengthening the court a bit, including the paint, to account for players being a bit longer and more athletic (and allowed to take more steps without dribbling).

Running down the court and purposely laying a big hit on another player is almost the same thing as fighting
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No, it's not. It's quite a bit different.

Since it's not swinging fists it's less severe and it's consistent with pass rulings.
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And I would go to war for your right to give your opinions, as silly as they may or may not be! (Well, I don't know if I'd go to war, but the sentiment is the same.)

Again, there's not much to argue.
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No, there's certainly not much to argue that that is how RoyToy feels. I fully agree that your post is the unequivocal truth about how RoyToy feels.
 
Minstrel said:
No, it's not. It's quite a bit different.
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A big hit like that is as close as it gets without throwing a punch, not too mention hits like that usually lead to fights. If Griffin had the ball you could possibly have a case but he didn't. The hit was way overboard.


And I would go to war for your right to give your opinions, as silly as they may or may not be! (Well, I don't know if I'd go to war, but the sentiment is the same.)
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I definitely encourage you to fight for me to share my excellent opinions.


No, there's certainly not much to argue that that is how RoyToy feels. I fully agree that your post is the unequivocal truth about how RoyToy feels.
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And the NBA feels. And how other posters in this thread feel. And pretty much how everyone feels besides you. In the meantime, though, keep saying you disagree with the suspension without having any basis to back your opinion up on.

Carry on with being wrong!
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How is this any different than a big man throwing a hip out on a screen and sending a smaller player flying? Oh, that's right, a guy who is about eight inches shorter and 50 lbs less than Blake Griffin just laid him out during gameplay. These things happen. This was an extremely inconsistent suspension by the NBA. I could probably watch any game on any given night and see things just as bad, if not worse, that go completely unpunished.
 
Natebishop3 said:
How is this any different than a big man throwing a hip out on a screen and sending a smaller player flying? Oh, that's right, a guy who is about eight inches shorter and 50 lbs less than Blake Griffin just laid him out during gameplay. These things happen. This was an extremely inconsistent suspension by the NBA. I could probably watch any game on any given night and see things just as bad, if not worse, that go completely unpunished.
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It's actually consistent. Look at the video of Derek Fisher above that I posted.

Setting a screen is far different than running down the court full speed and deliberately putting a big shot on a player with full force. Honestly that's not a very good comparison. One, is the screen illegal? And two, it involves the ball. One is a basketball play while the other is not. Huge difference.
 
I love that Miller stood up to Griffin. Griffin is a stud and fun to watch, but to say he already gets the superstar treatment from the refs is a monumental understatement. He constantly pushes off on rebounds, and never gets called for it. He also goes over the back a lot on offensive boards, and again gets away unpunished. Miller had enough of his shit, and the refs weren't going to do anything about it. So, he did. Good for him. It's about time someone put Stern's latest poster boy in his place. Take that rookie! Man's game! Nut up, or shut up!

BNM
 
As much as Miller scurries off to the Anex garage after the blazer games, at least hes trying to show some grit like Joel is. We need some "fire" underneath this team and we need to get something to get something done when RoY is looking sluggish out there and people are double teaming him.
 
RoyToy said:
A big hit like that is as close as it gets without throwing a punch, not too mention hits like that usually lead to fights. If Griffin had the ball you could possibly have a case but he didn't. The hit was way overboard.
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I agree that it was overboard. Everything that is overboard isn't suspension worthy.


And the NBA feels.
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Not "and." I was saying that it's unequivocal truth that RoyToy feels that anything the NBA feels is unarguable.

And pretty much how everyone feels besides you.
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[citation needed]

In the meantime, though, keep saying you disagree with the suspension without having any basis to back your opinion up on.
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What basis would you like for me feeling that the league suspending for things like this is unreasonable? I know you struggle with logic, but I'll explain slowly for you again: I'm not saying that the league is being inconsistent, I'm saying that I disagree with their belief that these incidents are suspension-worthy. So citing precedent isn't relevant to what I'm saying.

I'll give you an exaggerated example that might serve to help you understand the distinction: if the government began executing jaywalkers and I said "I don't think jaywalking warrants execution," you responding, "Well, the government executes all jaywalkers!" isn't exactly a compelling counter-point. :)
 
VanillaGorilla said:
Minstrel is my hero.
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Mine too. If she didn't sleep with me every night I'd certainly want her to.

Whoops, maybe I shouldn't have said that. Nevermind.

barfo
 
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RoyToy said:
It's actually consistent. Look at the video of Derek Fisher above that I posted.

Setting a screen is far different than running down the court full speed and deliberately putting a big shot on a player with full force. Honestly that's not a very good comparison. One, is the screen illegal? And two, it involves the ball. One is a basketball play while the other is not. Huge difference.
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It's inconsistent in that both are intentional acts of violence against a member of the opposing team. When a big guy hip checks a smaller player, it's not an accident. and neither was Miller's check on Griffin.
 
Boob-No-More said:
I love that Miller stood up to Griffin. Griffin is a stud and fun to watch, but to say he already gets the superstar treatment from the refs is a monumental understatement. He constantly pushes off on rebounds, and never gets called for it. He also goes over the back a lot on offensive boards, and again gets away unpunished. Miller had enough of his shit, and the refs weren't going to do anything about it. So, he did. Good for him. It's about time someone put Stern's latest poster boy in his place. Take that rookie! Man's game! Nut up, or shut up!

BNM
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Basically sums it up for me. He's a rookie getting away with this shit too. As a 13 year veteran, I'm sure Miller took a little umbrage to the hit from behind during the previous play. I loved everything about the play.

Miller is from Watts, I'm sure he has a little fire in his belly.
 
It's not like he threw a punch either... I've seen guys avoid suspensions after pushing people after a player is dead. I think this is a bullshit suspension and it's only because Miller pushed the new golden boy.
 
jlprk said:
We wouldn't have beaten Phoenix. We won't be beating the Clippers this season. The season is over.

Unless we want to get another 2 players suspended, 1 of theirs injured, on our own court, when we come out psyched up more than any game so far this season.

Then, we might luck out again, after blowing a 22 point lead, and just barely hang on due to Clipper errors at the end. Like last night.

So I'm wrong. There's about a 10% chance we'll win one more game this season.
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We beat the Clippers in LA. Great game. Totally dominated the final 5 minutes with the exact same team we have right now.

You guys are selling Patty Mills short. He's gonna be GREAT tomorrow. Nash is a great matchup for him. Just watch. Didn't you guys see his 5 pts/5 assts in 11 first half minutes vs Wall? Or his terrific shooting display vs the Clippers? He's ready.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Miller should broker a deal with the league.


Pay double the fine and agree to be pulled out of the game right away.


It was a dirty play, but no streak should end because of that.


I am pleased as punch that someone on this team finally nutted up and hit someone though
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I'd prefer if someone nutted up and hit a SHOT. That'd be far more productive.
 
Oh and by the way, I thought Miller's shove was fucking hilarious. What a stud.
 
I love to seee the "little' man stand up for the big guy.It's the fabric of our society.
I think Dre maybe taught this team somethin.Love those crafty vets:devilwink::devilwink:)
BTW, I got two tickets for sale to Tues game in 200 section (MGB's) for $60.hit me back or at Barrett's site or at Twitter ,same moniker.as I am somewhat unfamiliar here.
 
Miller's bulldozing is the play of the season so far. Just LMAO. I love that guy.

That said, I disagree with Minstrel that it isn't suspension-worthy. What if Shaq or Ilgauskas or Przybilla decided to pull that same move on a guy like Patty Mills? The dude would probably be in the hospital. It was only funny because it was an old PG doing it to a young PF. But if you flip it around and Blake did that to Miller, there's a good chance old man Miller leaves the game with a busted hip.

That's the difference between what Miller did and an illegal pick. Illegal picks can be pretty violent because it's a big guy often laying a little wood on a small guy. But it's just a little wood (or in the world of physics, "inertia")--a large mass moving a short distance at a low speed into a small mass moving at a moderate speed. Relatively small amount of force is applied. If you get a large mass moving at a high speed into a small mass standing still, there's a lot more force at work, and a lot more potential damage.

The only alternative to suspending Miller is to make a rule that goes something like this: "A smallish guy ramming into a big guy gets a tech. A biggish guy ramming into a smallish guy gets a suspension." That'd be pretty silly to try to enforce, because "biggish" and "smallish" have too much context and it makes it all to subjective. It's a lot simpler just to penalize everyone the same way for doing something that we all agree on is un-sportsmanlike.

Besides, if you let Miller's actions go, it's not a big step for every team to add a goon to the squad whose primary job it is to go out and level a star player on the other team.
 
We just did. We added Joel. That changed the character of the whole team. Miller was just the first to perceive the new ethos. The other players will soon play tougher, too, following Joel's lead.

Yesterday there was a thread about, what in the roster has changed from late last year, to give such different results? I mentioned Juwan. Now I see that even after Joel went out last year, the team continued to play in his bully boy style. Camby's style didn't take over till this season.
 
Boob-No-More said:
I love that Miller stood up to Griffin. Griffin is a stud and fun to watch, but to say he already gets the superstar treatment from the refs is a monumental understatement. He constantly pushes off on rebounds, and never gets called for it. He also goes over the back a lot on offensive boards, and again gets away unpunished. Miller had enough of his shit, and the refs weren't going to do anything about it. So, he did. Good for him. It's about time someone put Stern's latest poster boy in his place. Take that rookie! Man's game! Nut up, or shut up!

BNM
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What he said.

:cheers:
 
mook said:
That said, I disagree with Minstrel that it isn't suspension-worthy. What if Shaq or Ilgauskas or Przybilla decided to pull that same move on a guy like Patty Mills? The dude would probably be in the hospital. It was only funny because it was an old PG doing it to a young PF. But if you flip it around and Blake did that to Miller, there's a good chance old man Miller leaves the game with a busted hip.
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That's a perfectly reasonable point, but I disagree on two levels:

1. I don't think the severity is much as you claim, where if a big man did it to a small man (in the NBA, not saying random people in society) that it would very likely injure the small guy. I've seen guys like Shaq fly down the court to drill a guard that he thought undercut him on the other end. In the NBA, players are, on some level, aware that collision could happen at any time and they're top athletes...much more capable of dealing with unexpected collision, even big ones.

2. Potential damage you can knowingly inflict is reasonable to take into account. Black belt martial artists are charged with lethal assault for attacking people in hand to hand combat, whereas "normal" people would not be. Miller knows he's not 300 lbs and Griffin is not 150 lbs, so he knew his actions would not be as crushing as if that were the case.

As to your hypothetical rule, I agree that it would be a mess, but I don't think the NBA has an elegant rule on the books currently that removes subjectivity. It's already, so far as I can tell, entirely up to the discretion of the NBA, so factoring in how much damage an action could do based on the people involved is not really problematic to me. For personal fouls, I agree with your general principle: certain things should be fouls, regardless of who did it or why. Flagrant fouls and suspensions (and technicals) strike me as more "meta-fouls"...they're fouls almost outside the game and require more context.
 
I miss the days when players would get into it a little bit. Because IMO, the only reason there are so many cheap shot artist in the NBA now is because they know there won't be retaliation. Guys like Trevor Ariza would have had his ass kicked a dozen times by now if he played a decade ago.
 
Stern thinks the fans don't like a fight now and then, so he made the league a police state. He thinks fans come to see the referees.
 
jlprk said:
Stern thinks the fans don't like a fight now and then, so he made the league a police state. He thinks fans come to see the referees.
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More specific, he thinks the fans like a free throw shooting contest. If you look at the way the league has gone, they have really in fact, rigged it so they can eat more of the players and coaches salary through fines. This is exactly why the referee's should be a separate organization from the nba. They have a conflict of interest. 50,000 dollar fines? Really? Do the players really do so much damage in one of these incidents that 5 season ticket holders at 10k apiece quit paying for their seats? Do they really reduce the TV revenew, or does the intensity it brings actually increase ratings?
 
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