Miracles

[Pakman]

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<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The five-years-old speaks in five languages - English, French, Italian, Swahili and Arabic - even though he is completely uneducated.

At one year old he was able to recite the Quran and went on to be able to preach in Arabic, Swahili and French without any learning.
The boy's first words - "You people repent and you will be accepted by God" were in Arabic.

He was also reported to be Hafiz Al Quran (memorized whole Quran) at the age of one and a half years and was also praying 5 times a day at that age.

This boy was born into a christian family and they later became muslim...

A very large crowd gather in Nigeria as a young child at the age of 5 can speak FLUENT Arabic. At only the age of 5 with no teaching this is a miracle.He can read the Quran also and delivers a message about Islam.

This is a true miracle of Islam , Sheikh Sharifuddin was born in a Christian family but was a quran-hafiz (knew the full Qur'an) at the age of 1 1/2 years of age and was praying 5 times a day. Amazingly Sheikh sharifuddin speak in many languages, and with his speech has brought many many people to accept Islam MUST WATCH THIS VIDEO - ANOTHER MIRACLE OF ISLAM SUBHAN-ALLAH

Visit, "Child Imam Miracle Child", my other miracle video. Video taken from azgarkhan. More Tags and Info.

He was born in a Non-Muslim family, started to read Namaaz(Muslim Prayer) by his own. Miracle in a Non-Muslim family. The Kid suddenly turned to Islam without anyone's aid. He knew a lot without learning True Miracle.

Note: Islam doesn't need miracles to prove itself; it is for YOU to see the signs and feel the truth. The biggest miracle is the holy Qur'an itself.

A video which will amaze you. Visit the websites below for proof of ALLAH.

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles...
http://www.islamcan.com/miracles/inde...
http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=...
http://talkislam.wordpress.com/2006/0...

You want proof of ALLAH (swt), Here you go, http://quranicverse99.tripod.com/path... and http://archive.muslimuzbekistan.com/e...

Allah bless him. We all wish we were like him. Muslims come in peace. May Allah take us all to Jannat. Ameen. Comments are more than WELCOME.

The way (Deen) of Islam (Complete system of life/Submitting to Allah's will) is the best of ways, not named after anyone, thing or place. Submitting to Allah's will (contained in the Quran and Sunnah) is becoming a Muslim (the one doing Islam) and can only be achieved without any force. Allah created us with the choice to submit or not to submit to him. Allah created the angels to submit without any choice and they still fall short of the worship Allah deserves. In Islam, you do not get forgiven by praying once to Jesus (peace be upon him). Your good deeds should outweight your bad sins. You would not go to Hell, if you believe in God, and Jesus (pbuh) to be prophet. He is not Gods son. He created Jesus just like he created Adam (pbuh). Therefore, we should only pray to God. We should donate; respect our parents, do Good deeds, etc. We are not all the same and we are peaceful. Please do not compare us with Osama Bin Laden. Peace Be Upon You All.
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[Legacy]

<div class="quote_poster">Pakman Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Invalid Video Link</div>

Damn, that's some crazy stuff.

 

[Chutney]

I got to throw some David Hume out here. There's a big difference between the miraculous and the improbable. As incredible as this is, it doesn't defy the laws of nature or anything. Religions abuse the word "miracle" far too often, IMO.

 

[Karma]

That reminds me (to some extent) of the Muslim born baby who had the "tail of Hanuman" (a Hindu God who sports a tail). Apperently, he also had nine spots on his body that was similar to that of Hanuman's body. People in India flocked to catch a glimpse of the boy, labeling him as a God and a saviour.

What is often ignored is that being born with a "tail" (I'm not sure what it's called scientifically) actually happens to numerous people. It's still very rare, but it still does happen. However, since this happened in India, the boy was seen as a reincarnation of God. I am a Hindu (although, I am not extremely religious...a more accurate statement would be "I know about Hinduism"), and I don't really buy this at all; however, it's surprising to see that in the name of God, Hindus accepted a Muslim baby as being a reincarnation of one of thier own Gods.

 

[umair]

Most of you guys know probably don't know how Allah (meaning God in Arabic) is spelled in Arabic so here it is:

Well the point of that was to show this video. It is about "Miracles of Allah." It is pretty interesting to see how so many things in this world are shaped like how "Allah" is spelled in Arabic.

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[Legacy]

I saw all of those before, Umair. Good post.

 

[Pakman]

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I got to throw some David Hume out here. There's a big difference between the miraculous and the improbable. As incredible as this is, it doesn't defy the laws of nature or anything. Religions abuse the word "miracle" far too often, IMO.</div>

The kid speaks 4 languages. Lives in a country where arabic is not spoken, and speaks it fluently to get the god's message across.

Not to mention he has memorized the Quran, which is LONG.
Miracle or not, you decide.

 

[Chutney]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Karma:</div><div class="quote_post">What is often ignored is that being born with a "tail" (I'm not sure what it's called scientifically) actually happens to numerous people. It's still very rare, but it still does happen. However, since this happened in India, the boy was seen as a reincarnation of God. I am a Hindu (although, I am not extremely religious...a more accurate statement would be "I know about Hinduism"), and I don't really buy this at all; however, it's surprising to see that in the name of God, Hindus accepted a Muslim baby as being a reincarnation of one of thier own Gods.</div>
Exactly. Too often people make that assumption without considering the fact that there is still a scientific explanation. And it diminishes "miracles" in the actual sense of the word: things that cannot be explained by our understanding of reality (ie: flying, walking on water, resurrection, etc., etc.). If we followed this logic of proclaiming unbelievable phenomena as miracles, then by all means that 3-year old girl who solved a Rubik's Cube just performed a miracle.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pakman:</div><div class="quote_post">The kid speaks 4 languages. Lives in a country where arabic is not spoken, and speaks it fluently to get the god's message across.

Not to mention he has memorized the Quran, which is LONG.
Miracle or not, you decide.</div>
Not. As improbable and incredible as it is, is not still possible?

 

[Pakman]

I've recently got into this thing about Miracles of Islam & Miracles of Allah.

Watched some videos, saw some pictures. They are crazy. I'll share some.

^Mosque in Indonesia after the tsunami hit.

^Beehive that says "Allah" in arabic, clearly.

^A plant similar to cactus... says "Allah" in arabic.

^says "Allah" in arabic in the sky.

Chutney, what do you think about those pics man?
I mean.. only the mosque is left after the tsunami ... sign of god .. miracle.. would u agree?

 

[Pakman]

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Exactly. Too often people make that assumption without considering the fact that there is still a scientific explanation. And it diminishes "miracles" in the actual sense of the word: things that cannot be explained by our understanding of reality (ie: flying, walking on water, resurrection, etc., etc.). If we followed this logic of proclaiming unbelievable phenomena as miracles, then by all means that 3-year old girl who solved a Rubik's Cube just performed a miracle.


Not. As improbable and incredible as it is, is not still possible?</div>
Maybe if one day you get the chance to recite the Quran, you will understand my point of view. Solving a rubix cube vs. reciting Quran + memorizing it + giving dawah (ability to preach) + speaking Arabic without any education.

 

[umair]

Let me empahsize on what Pakman is saying. It is not miracles that just happen like that. They are signs of Allah. You can't say that they are unreal. No one makes those things happen that way, it is just Earth, the human nature,the environment, and everything. We are not trying to tell a message here, but just sharing some interesting videos that might tell something. But nonetheless, it is interesting to see how things like that can form into Allah in arabic.

 

[Chutney]

<div class="quote_poster">Pakman Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Maybe if one day you get the chance to recite the Quran, you will understand my point of view. Solving a rubix cube vs. reciting Quran + memorizing it + giving dawah (ability to preach) + speaking Arabic without any education.</div>
Dude, you're totally missing the point. I'm not arguing about degrees of improbability. The fact is that both of those things are still physically possible. Hence they shouldn't be classified as miracles.

 

[umair]

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Dude, you're totally missing the point. I'm not arguing about degrees of improbability. The fact is that both of those things are still physically possible. Hence they shouldn't be classified as miracles.</div>

Not a miracle, but a message. These types of things I believe are all messages from Allah.

 

[Legacy]

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The fact is that both of those things are still physically possible.</div>

It's physically possible for a 5 year old to speak 5 languages and recite the Holy Koran perfectly?

 

[Chutney]

<div class="quote_poster">Umair Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Not a miracle, but a message. These types of things I believe are all messages from Allah.</div>
Well, that's just a matter of opinion. The only thing I wanted to make a point about was how people throw around the word "miracle" without really considering what they're saying.

 

[Pakman]

Maybe we really aren't considering Chutney's POV...

This might help; Chutney, what do you consider a miracle?

 

[umair]

I think it's pointless to argue here. I am Muslim and Chutney is not. Ofcourse, I am going to believe in some different stuff than him. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

[Bahir]

About those religios "miracles": The fact is that if you look hard enough for something, you will find it. Of the billions and billions of animals, plants and other things, the probability of finding something, like an arabic world, is small, but it's there. Don't you think this has happened before? Every once in a while you hear about someone finding Jesus' face on something, a message in a bowl of alpha-bits or some weird genetic mutation - but that doesn't prove anything but that there is a probability of these things happening.

 

[Chutney]

I kind of got tired last night, but here are my replies:

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Legacy:</div><div class="quote_post">It's physically possible for a 5 year old to speak 5 languages and recite the Holy Koran perfectly?</div>
I think its definitely possible, although it would be an incredibly rare and unique case. There are a lot of things that need to be taken into consideration.

1) Picking up Languages: Language does not necessarily require formal education. If a child is around people who speak a certain way, he will pick that up and learn to communicate with them. The majority of this development happens early on (first few years), so if he was in an environment where more than one language was spoken (common in rural areas in that region) he could very easily have picked them up. It's amazing that he did, but still possible nonetheless.

2) Rote Learning (Link): The Eastern nations (South Asia, Middle East, North Africa, etc.) tend to use the technique of repetition when it comes to teaching or conveying anything. It's ingrained within the culture to the point that a lot of students from that area have a hard time studying overseas. I mean I personally have cousins in India who, at the age of 7 or 8, could recite the timestables up to the 20's or 30's off memory, but had very little understanding of what they were saying. That's why this concept isn't held in high regard in the West. But, nevertheless, this child could very easily have been exposed to the Quran in this way and memorized it. It's hard to believe, but it brings me to my next point...

3) The Child's Intellect: Don't you find it odd that, with all this talk of miracles, there is absolutely no mention of the fact that this kid might be intellectually gifted? Maybe even at a child prodigy level. It seems that very few people tend to acknowledge that the kid may deserve some credit when there is a religious aspect involved. To be able to memorize such a large piece of literature and pick up those languages would hint at a child who is incredibly talented and gifted. Or, on the flip side, he could have a learning disability. A lot of children who have learning problems, have shown an extraordinarily high memory that can mask very low comprehension levels or numerous other problems.

Those are just some of the things that popped into my mind when I read that first post, but there are so many other possible explanations. It just doesn't seem to defy any natural laws.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair:</div><div class="quote_post">I think it's pointless to argue here. I am Muslim and Chutney is not. Ofcourse, I am going to believe in some different stuff than him. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.</div>
I don't think we're that different, dude. I may not be Muslim, but I am religious and I follow a religion that is from a similar region and that has been in contact with Islam throughout history. So there are a lot of similarities there. I see the same talk of miracles in Sikhism and I think my opinion holds weight in almost all religions. I find that, too often, religious people look for some sort of natural phenomena to inspire them to continue following their path. And most of the time, it leads them to take huge leaps of faith that are not necessarily logical. Honestly, I don't see the need for it though. There is so much knowledge and truth to be found within the scriptures and teachings that are left behind. In your case, why go around searching for the word "Allah" in plants and animals, when you have all you want to know about him in the Quran?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pakman:</div><div class="quote_post">Maybe we really aren't considering Chutney's POV...

This might help; Chutney, what do you consider a miracle?</div>
I consider miracles or miraculous acts to be something that defies all natural laws and our understanding of reality (eg: Moses parting the Red Sea, Jesus returning after his death, Mohammed moving a mountain, etc.). We cannot come up with any explanation for these acts, other than it involved some higher power.

The miracles that we commonly find can be explained through our knowledge of nature and reality. Too often, we mix up what is improbable (highly unlikely or incredibly rare) with what is impossible (defies our understanding). There's also the point that, just because we cannot explain something now, does not mean we won't be able to in the future (ie: people in the past used to think solar eclipses were some sort of sign or message, but centuries later, we now know the science behind it). So, my point is that true miracles are so incredibly incomprehensible and special, that we tend to diminish their significance by pointing to rare phenomena as miraculous. Just because religion is involved, does not mean its logical or justifiable to make that leap of faith (I mean, if the kid could recite the Communist Manifesto word for word, would we be justified in proclaiming Karl Marx as our new savior?).

 

[Skiptomylue11]

<div class="quote_poster">Karma Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">That reminds me (to some extent) of the Muslim born baby who had the "tail of Hanuman" (a Hindu God who sports a tail). Apperently, he also had nine spots on his body that was similar to that of Hanuman's body. People in India flocked to catch a glimpse of the boy, labeling him as a God and a saviour.

What is often ignored is that being born with a "tail" (I'm not sure what it's called scientifically) actually happens to numerous people. It's still very rare, but it still does happen. However, since this happened in India, the boy was seen as a reincarnation of God. I am a Hindu (although, I am not extremely religious...a more accurate statement would be "I know about Hinduism"), and I don't really buy this at all; however, it's surprising to see that in the name of God, Hindus accepted a Muslim baby as being a reincarnation of one of thier own Gods.</div>I think it was a good example in some ways, although I'm curious, does that human "tail" have bones? It looks like it is coming out of the side of the butt cheek as opposed to the "tail bone".

On a side question, do animals (monkeys, dogs, cats, etc) have bones in their tails or is it just cartilage?
<div class="quote_poster">Pakman Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I've recently got into this thing about Miracles of Islam & Miracles of Allah.

Watched some videos, saw some pictures. They are crazy. I'll share some.

^Mosque in Indonesia after the tsunami hit.

^Beehive that says "Allah" in arabic, clearly.

^A plant similar to cactus... says "Allah" in arabic.

^says "Allah" in arabic in the sky.

Chutney, what do you think about those pics man?
I mean.. only the mosque is left after the tsunami ... sign of god .. miracle.. would u agree?</div>Well I'm sure you can find pictures on the internet taken by some Roman Catholics supposedly showing Virgin Mary on a piece of toast, a baking pan, or as clouds in the sky. There are probably other examples using other figures (Buddha, Guru Nanak, Krishna) or languages and sayings.
<div class="quote_poster">Pakman Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The kid speaks 4 languages. Lives in a country where arabic is not spoken, and speaks it fluently to get the god's message across.

Not to mention he has memorized the Quran, which is LONG.
Miracle or not, you decide.</div> Well I've heard that muslim parents encourage their kids to learn arabic, because they will have to pray in arabic. The Quran is encouraged to be memorized, because it is considered a great achievement to memorize the whole thing. I think people who have a special title (Qaris? Qurra?). Also I think every muslim if they can pray has at least a couple verses memorized, because I think praying involves the recitation of the Quran.

Another note is that the Quran is easier to memorize than most texts that people read today because a large portion of it rhymes (I'm not sure 50%?), as well it flows poetically.

Nonetheless it is still a difficult task to memorize, it is a long book.

 

[umair]

<div class="quote_poster">Bahir Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">About those religios "miracles": The fact is that if you look hard enough for something, you will find it. Of the billions and billions of animals, plants and other things, the probability of finding something, like an arabic world, is small, but it's there. Don't you think this has happened before?</div>

What? You really think that finding all of those things are stupid? You think they are just there because they are there? Because it's a slight possibilty, you think those things just get there? So somehow magically because of a small chance those things happened that way. I am not trying to prove anything, but just saying that you can't pass up on things like this. These types of things are messages from Allah (SWT). I consider these types of things interesting because they show something. You can't just say these things are here because someone looked hard and found them. There are a lot more interesting things than this though. Like for example, when the tsunami hit Indonesia, there was a mosque left by itself. Everything else was destroyed and only a Mosque stayed in it's position. Don't you think that might be interesting or is that a slight possibility of something that can happen?

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
In your case, why go around searching for the word "Allah" in plants and animals, when you have all you want to know about him in the Quran?
</div>

No one is going around searching for these things. These things are just some interesting things that show something. It's not like Muslims go around everywhere looking for things that say Allah. These things are just there that people see. It's just amazing to see how so many things are shaped in the way of Allah. Definitely, there is a lot of things about Allah in Quran and that is true. Trees and all those structures don't tell you anything about Allah, they just show something. It's just interesting to see how all those things are like that.

 

[Chutney]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair:</div><div class="quote_post">No one is going around searching for these things. These things are just some interesting things that show something. It's not like Muslims go around everywhere looking for things that say Allah. These things are just there that people see. It's just amazing to see how so many things are shaped in the way of Allah. Definitely, there is a lot of things about Allah in Quran and that is true. Trees and all those structures don't tell you anything about Allah, they just show something. It's just interesting to see how all those things are like that.</div>
Well, its impossible for me or anybody else to dispute whether or not these things are signs from Allah. I'd have as little evidence to disprove it as you would to prove, so it really comes down to a matter of opinion and faith.

What do these things show and why are they important/interesting? I never really understood this. Do they show that Allah exists? That he created this world? That he's a part of nature? That he wants us to worship him? All of those points are basic knowledge for any Muslim, so these "signs" don't really provide anything new. And if we were to consider them special, does that mean that all the plants that don't spell Allah, weren't created by him? And were all those tortilla chips, etc. that show Jesus' face created by a Christian God and prove that Allah isn't the only God?

I personally think this stuff is borderline superstition and a distraction from the real point of religion. They don't provide any spiritual knowledge or help people in any way, but they do lead people away from scripture and leave people open to exploitation (I've seen this first-hand).

 

[thedude9990]

just curious to see if this is considered a miracle to epople of other religions,

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/vmary.htm

in the 1960's Virgin Mary was seen on top of a coptic orthodox church in Egypt. many people saw her (including many of my family) and many people (including muslims) said they felt a cure of something when seeing her. i don't know too much about it just that it happened, i remember a few years ago some house in penn. had images of Jesus and Vrgin Mary appear on a basketball backboard of a Jewish families home, and I actaully went and seen the images, so do you consider this a miracle?

 

[umair]

<div class="quote_poster">Skiptomylue11 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
Well I'm sure you can find pictures on the internet taken by some Roman Catholics supposedly showing Virgin Mary on a piece of toast, a baking pan, or as clouds in the sky. There are probably other examples using other figures (Buddha, Guru Nanak, Krishna) or languages and sayings.
Well I've heard that muslim parents encourage their kids to learn arabic, because they will have to pray in arabic. The Quran is encouraged to be memorized, because it is considered a great achievement to memorize the whole thing. I think people who have a special title (Qaris? Qurra?). Also I think every muslim if they can pray has at least a couple verses memorized, because I think praying involves the recitation of the Quran.

Another note is that the Quran is easier to memorize than most texts that people read today because a large portion of it rhymes (I'm not sure 50%?), as well it flows poetically.

Nonetheless it is still a difficult task to memorize, it is a long book.</div>
The kid was born in a non-muslim family. And yes, Quran does flow but is in a different language than a lot of Muslims speak. We learn to speak Arabic, not talk in it.

 

[umair]

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
What do these things show and why are they important/interesting? I never really understood this. Do they show that Allah exists? That he created this world? That he's a part of nature? That he wants us to worship him? All of those points are basic knowledge for any Muslim, so these "signs" don't really provide anything new. And if we were to consider them special, does that mean that all the plants that don't spell Allah, weren't created by him? And were all those tortilla chips, etc. that show Jesus' face created by a Christian God and prove that Allah isn't the only God?</div>

That's why I earlier said that you would understand the concept of this because you have a different faith than me. Because Muslims and Hindus live near each other doesn't mean a Hindu can know all about Islam. These two religions may have some similarities, but different beliefs. One example may be that Muslims don't believe in reincarnation and Hindus do. Well, with that said, obviously you wouldn't know what I am trying to say. Me, I am a Muslim and I believe in Allah. To me, these thigns like trees and all the other things spelling the word Allah shows a message. Meaning a message from Allah. The whole universe I believe was created by Allah and everything is his creation. Things like trees and all which spell Allah show something. They show that Allah is the creator of this world. Most of you guys won't believe it because you guys don't believe in Allah the way I do. So obviously, it's different for you guys to understand it. To me, and other muslims, it shows us how Allah created things like this.

Of course, things like this don't provide any knowlegde. They just show us how Allah made things like this. If you don't believe in what I am saying, the least you could do is be interested in how things are spelled that way. They don't have to prove anything to you, but just show some interest in how that can happen. But to me, it's different. Like you said, it's just a matter of faith.

And btw, how do you compare a tortilla chip with Allah? I didn't understand that part.

 

[Bahir]

<div class="quote_poster">Umair Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">What? You really think that finding all of those things are stupid? </div>

What?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair:</div><div class="quote_post">
You think they are just there because they are there? Because it's a slight possibilty, you think those things just get there? So somehow magically because of a small chance those things happened that way. I am not trying to prove anything, but just saying that you can't pass up on things like this.
</div>

Again, if there is a probability of something like this happening, sooner or later, it will happen. Just think about the number of plants, animals and things that has existed on this earth for I don't know how long. A few of them is bound to take weird shapes. Compare it to getting hit by a meteor: it's highly unlikely that you will get hit by one, but the possibility is there.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair:</div><div class="quote_post">
These types of things are messages from Allah (SWT). I consider these types of things interesting because they show something. You can't just say these things are here because someone looked hard and found them. There are a lot more interesting things than this though. Like for example, when the tsunami hit Indonesia, there was a mosque left by itself. Everything else was destroyed and only a Mosque stayed in it's position. Don't you think that might be interesting or is that a slight possibility of something that can happen?</div>

Ok, let's say that the objects in those images were really messages from the muslim god. With islam being very, very strictly monotheistic, how do you explain similar images from other religions, like the many Jesus faces on things etc? Because if the objects in the "allah" pictures are true, and the muslim god is the only god, then those objects connected with other religions could not be proof of other gods. If they are not proof of other gods, then you must admit that they are proof of the probability of such things happening, yes? (Unless the god is actively involved in the shaping of every object and living being, but then you'd have to ask yourself why that god would make stuff that sways people away from his own faith, and strengthens other beliefs). Sorry about the rambling, but what do you have to say about that?

 

[Chutney]

<div class="quote_poster">Umair Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">That's why I earlier said that you would understand the concept of this because you have a different faith than me. Because Muslims and Hindus live near each other doesn't mean a Hindu can know all about Islam. These two religions may have some similarities, but different beliefs. One example may be that Muslims don't believe in reincarnation and Hindus do. Well, with that said, obviously you wouldn't know what I am trying to say. Me, I am a Muslim and I believe in Allah. To me, these thigns like trees and all the other things spelling the word Allah shows a message. Meaning a message from Allah. The whole universe I believe was created by Allah and everything is his creation. Things like trees and all which spell Allah show something. They show that Allah is the creator of this world. Most of you guys won't believe it because you guys don't believe in Allah the way I do. So obviously, it's different for you guys to understand it. To me, and other muslims, it shows us how Allah created things like this.

Of course, things like this don't provide any knowlegde. They just show us how Allah made things like this. If you don't believe in what I am saying, the least you could do is be interested in how things are spelled that way. They don't have to prove anything to you, but just show some interest in how that can happen. But to me, it's different. Like you said, it's just a matter of faith.

And btw, how do you compare a tortilla chip with Allah? I didn't understand that part.</div>
Dude, through that entire post, I was speaking from the point of view of a Muslim. I'm not Islamic, but my religion has similarities with yours, I've studied Islam, and I have a lot of Muslim friends. At what point did I show a lack of knowledge/understanding about your faith? Let's slowly go through this slowly:

OK, so you're a Muslim. You believe in Allah, follow the teachings of the Quran, and one day you see a plant that's shaped like the Arabic word "Allah." Why do you make a big deal out of this? According to you, this is important because its a message or a sign from Allah. Then I have to ask you, what is this a sign of or what is the message? Does it tell you that Allah exists? That he created the world? That he is a part of nature? That he's watching over you? That he wants you to worship him? All of those may be true, but isn't that just basic knowledge for any Muslim? Why pay so much attention to something that reaffirms the fundamental beliefs that you can find in the Quran? Instead of spending so much time on that plant, why not stick with the scripture that have been telling you the exact same thing all along?

And now that I've stated why I don't think its that important, I'll list the reasons why I think making a big deal out of it can be a negative:

1) Logical inconsistencies: Bahir kind of went through this already, but when you place a lot of importance on these things, you leave yourself open to a lot of logical problems. If those single plants are so special, does that mean that every other plant that doesn't spell "Allah" is not created by him? And do other things in nature that show different religious symbols (ie: people seeing Jesus' face in a tortilla shell, etc.) mean that there is more than one God or that Allah isn't all-powerful? As a Muslim, wouldn't you think its a lot easier and logical to believe that all of nature is created by Allah and that this is just a coincidence?

2) Distraction: From my experience, people place a lot of emphasis on these "miracles" or "messages," because they're looking for something that can help strengthen their faith and stay religious. The only problem is that they're doing it for all the wrong reasons, IMO. You shouldn't believe in Allah and worship him because you were so fascinated with a plant that very well could be a coincidence. You should become a Muslim because you are convinced by the teachings and knowledge from the Quran and the prophet. There is so much substance to those, that they should inspire enough faith.'

3) Exploitation: In my opinion, this is the most problematic aspect surrounding this issue. When people place a lot of importance on these natural phenomenon, they leave themselves prone to being exploited by others. You can find it all over the place (but a lot in the East): people pay money for someone who has "spiritual powers" to bless them, they get suckered into paying deference to an object that a dude created to look like a miracle, or they follow someone who claims to be the next prophet. Obviously, finding a message in a plant isn't as bad as those things, but its a slippery slope when you try finding spiritual knowledge in arbritrary things outside of the Quran.

 

[Pakman]

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
What do these things show and why are they important/interesting? I never really understood this. Do they show that Allah exists? That he created this world? That he's a part of nature? That he wants us to worship him? All of those points are basic knowledge for any Muslim, so these "signs" don't really provide anything new. And if we were to consider them special, does that mean that all the plants that don't spell Allah, weren't created by him? And were all those tortilla chips, etc. that show Jesus' face created by a Christian God and prove that Allah isn't the only God?

I personally think this stuff is borderline superstition and a distraction from the real point of religion. They don't provide any spiritual knowledge or help people in any way, but they do lead people away from scripture and leave people open to exploitation (I've seen this first-hand).</div>

Actually, you're right about that. If we believe in something already, what does this prove to us?

 

[umair]

<div class="quote_poster">Bahir Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Again, if there is a probability of something like this happening, sooner or later, it will happen. Just think about the number of plants, animals and things that has existed on this earth for I don't know how long. A few of them is bound to take weird shapes. Compare it to getting hit by a meteor: it's highly unlikely that you will get hit by one, but the possibility is there.
</div>

So the mosque being the only thing left when Tsunami hit was a probability?
A kid memorizing an 800 page book and spreading Islam was a probability?
100s of things spelling the name of Allah is a probability?

You're right that they can be a probability, but not everything! You can't say everything that happens is a probabilty. Everything I believe happens for a reason and what ever happens is done by Allah.
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Dude, through that entire post, I was speaking from the point of view of a Muslim. I'm not Islamic, but my religion has similarities with yours, I've studied Islam, and I have a lot of Muslim friends. At what point did I show a lack of knowledge/understanding about your faith? Let's slowly go through this slowly:</div>
Ok just because you're hanging with Muslim friends does not mean that Islam and Hinduism are similar. There may be some similarities, but mostly they are different. For example, Islam is a monotheistic religiong while Hinduism is not. Hindus believe in reincarnation while Islam does not. I could name a lot more but that's not the point. You may know a lot about Islam but that doesn't give you the right to say that these types of things don't show anything. I believe whatever Allah does does for a reason.

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">OK, so you're a Muslim. You believe in Allah, follow the teachings of the Quran, and one day you see a plant that's shaped like the Arabic word "Allah." Why do you make a big deal out of this? According to you, this is important because its a message or a sign from Allah. Then I have to ask you, what is this a sign of or what is the message? Does it tell you that Allah exists? That he created the world? That he is a part of nature? That he's watching over you? </div>
Exactly. It shows me that he is there. It shows that Allah made those things for people to know that he is there watching over them, it shows he made those things. What Allah does like for example 911 and Tsunami, I believe he does that for a reason. He wants Muslims to find the best way to be Muslims. He doesn't want everyone to be perfect, he wants us to know the difference between right and wrong and that's the reason he sets obstacles for us.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">All of those may be true, but isn't that just basic knowledge for any Muslim? Why pay so much attention to something that reaffirms the fundamental beliefs that you can find in the Quran? Instead of spending so much time on that plant, why not stick with the scripture that have been telling you the exact same thing all along?</div>

It's not like anyone is spending so much time on the plant. We do read the Quran to learn the basics of Islam, but you can't just pass up on things like the plant and everything. I am not saying that plants and nature and all the stuff is important. I am saying that these types of things are interesting. They show us Muslims that Allah is there watching our each and every move. We don't spend our time looking at those things, they just show us that Allah is there.

 

[Karma]

Look, I admit I'm not strictly religously (VERY loosely religious would be the term), but this is why people need to step aback and learn to evaluate the purpose of religion as a whole.

Umair, you stated that the plants and what not "shows [you] that [Allah] is there". To reiterate Chutney's point, WHY do you need a plant to justify your faith? If you're faithful to Allah, and you believe in the concepts taught by the Qua'ran, why do you need Arabic spelled out over clouds and plants to provide justification for His existence? What's the point of believing when you need justification?

To veer slightly off topic, I think religions cause more harm than good, especially because it leads to misunderstandings and unwarranted conflicts. All it takes is one person from a certain faith to misunderstand something someone from a different faith states and it leads to conflicts.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok just because you're hanging with Muslim friends does not mean that Islam and Hinduism are similar. There may be some similarities, but mostly they are different. For example, Islam is a monotheistic religiong while Hinduism is not. Hindus believe in reincarnation while Islam does not. I could name a lot more but that's not the point. You may know a lot about Islam but that doesn't give you the right to say that these types of things don't show anything. I believe whatever Allah does does for a reason. </div>

This whole post makes no sense; Chutney is Sikh, not Hindu.