MOAR CURRY!

[Rastapopoulos]

Because +/- is a team stat.

.5 of a second of thought should tell you that EVERY STAT IS A TEAM STAT.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Curry doesn't look so great in RPM, but as you can see, he's not that much worse than Klay Thompson, and a lot better than "pleasant surprise" Evan Turner:

 

[blue9]

He’s the only bench guy that consistently plays with Dame, Nurk, and CJ. Product of his environment.

And this also explains Aminu's +/-.

 

[blue9]

Also, Curry better make a stupid sweet Stumptown commercial on the quick otherwise I'll be wanting my Shabazz Is The Man back...

 

[hoopsjock]

.5 of a second of thought should tell you that EVERY STAT IS A TEAM STAT.

LMAO, what?

 

[oldmangrouch]

He plays about the same amount of minutes as Curry yet averages almost double the points. Also more assists, steals, better TS %, a better ORTG, DRTG, and a PER of 15 compared to Curry’s wonderful 5.5.

I rest my case.

But other than that Mrs Lincoln, wasn't it a wonderful play?

 

[blue9]

LMAO, what?

That's why they line up along the side of the key during free throws - so they can all blow really hard to help guide (or hinder) the ball into (or away from) the basket! FT shooting is perhaps the most team-oriented aspect of the game! It's why the Larry Brown Pistons were so awful - nobody would help Ben's FTs go in.

 

[hoopsjock]

That's why they line up along the side of the key during free throws - so they can all blow really hard to help guide (or hinder) the ball into (or away from) the basket! FT shooting is perhaps the most team-oriented aspect of the game! It's why the Larry Brown Pistons were so awful - nobody would help Ben's FTs go in.

Ohhh wow, I've been playing basketball my whole life and have never done that before. So last year when Nurk sucked at free throws the team was like no fuck this make them yourself and now this year they are like here let me help you with that? It all makes sense now!

 

[PtldPlatypus]

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Beat me to it!

 

[blue9]

Seth IS the KOBE STOPPER! Kobe hasn't scored a single point on him ALL SEASON - and I guaransheed that Seth will keep him scoreless for the rest of his career.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

LMAO, what?

OK, so not FT%. But let's look at FG%. Are you shooting in an empty gym? No. Your FG% is a function of how open you get, which is a function of what your other team members are doing, and also a function of what your coach wants you to do. Look at Brook Lopez. Has he become a new player? No. But his stats this year are radically different from last year. Why? Because he's on a different team and being asked to do different things.

But, you say, suppose a player changes several teams and maintains stable stats - doesn't that mean that their stats are mostly indicative of them and not their teammates? Well, sure. IF that happens. But also, what if a player is CONSISTENTLY a positive in the +/-, across teams and lineups?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

For example, last night Curry was in the game when Dame had 7 points on two consecutive possessions. If Curry only played that minute he'd be a plus 7 for the game even though he literally would have no effect on the outcome. That might be an extreme example

This is isn't an "extreme example" it's just a small sample size. But of course all stats are less useful the smaller the sample size. And if Curry was ALWAYS leaching off others then it would be very hard for him to LEAD THE TEAM in +/-. Your only explanation would have to be that there was one player who was a consistent drag on the team success and Curry never played with that person. But if you argued that, you would be saying that IT'S POSSIBLE for someone to be THE KIND OF PLAYER who always brings down scoring (in a way that was not indicated by their other stats) which would be an admission that the +/- stat really registers something that you can't capture with other stats.

but if you honestly watched the games not one person would guess that he has such a high +/-.

I disagree. What you mean is "I can't see what he's doing that's causing the team to do well when he's on court". THAT I can agree with.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Seth IS the KOBE STOPPER! Kobe hasn't scored a single point on him ALL SEASON - and I guaransheed that Seth will keep him scoreless for the rest of his career.

Not sure what point you think you're making, but you be you.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

He’s the only bench guy that consistently plays with Dame, Nurk, and CJ. Product of his environment.

So why is his +/- higher than theirs?

 

[hoopsjock]

OK, so not FT%. But let's look at FG%. Are you shooting in an empty gym? No. Your FG% is a function of how open you get, which is a function of what your other team members are doing, and also a function of what your coach wants you to do. Look at Brook Lopez. Has he become a new player? No. But his stats this year are radically different from last year. Why? Because he's on a different team and being asked to do different things.

But, you say, suppose a player changes several teams and maintains stable stats - doesn't that mean that their stats are mostly indicative of them and not their teammates? Well, sure. IF that happens. But also, what if a player is CONSISTENTLY a positive in the +/-, across teams and lineups?

I once played on a team where it was myself and one other good player. Everyone else had virtually no experience playing organized basketball. I pretty much played the whole game every time so my +/- would be whatever the differential of the final score was. If we took the time to keep stats and included +/- the other guys would fluctuate depending on what happened when they were in the game. There would likely be guys that had a higher +/- than me even though they literally contributed nothing to the outcome of the game. Does that mean I should sit out more and let those guys play when they can't even dribble the ball up the court or create a shot for themselves on offense if I'm not in?

I get what you are saying about stats being a team thing. If I pass to a wide open shooter and he makes it, I get an assist. If he misses it doesn't show up as anything in a box score. It's not Dame's fault if Aminu misses a wide open 3. Often times steals are the result of a teammate pressuring the ball on a pass. Of course players will be different if used correctly in better systems.

 

[blue9]

Not sure what point you think you're making, but you be you.

I thought it was pretty obvious: Kobe can't score on Seth.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I once played on a team where it was myself and one other good player. Everyone else had virtually no experience playing organized basketball. I pretty much played the whole game every time so my +/- would be whatever the differential of the final score was. If we took the time to keep stats and included +/- the other guys would fluctuate depending on what happened when they were in the game. There would likely be guys that had a higher +/- than me even though they literally contributed nothing to the outcome of the game. Does that mean I should sit out more and let those guys play when they can't even dribble the ball up the court or create a shot for themselves on offense if I'm not in?

Talk about extreme examples...

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The difference between me and you Curry-haters is that you think I think +/- is a fail-safe indicator that Curry is a great player. But I don't. The difference is that YOU think OTHER stats are fail-safe indicators that he sucks. That and you think he looks shit.

He may indeed be shit. But the fact that you have to bend over backwards to "explain" his team-leading +/- stat leads me to doubt it. The longer he keeps up this team-leading +/- stat, the more I believe that his presence (even as a decoy) is helping the team. Maybe he's coasting on his rep even while shooting poorly. Hey, then his rep is helping the team. Great!

 

[hoopsjock]

Talk about extreme examples...

Well that is why +/- is a dumb stat to base an argument off of. If Curry plays more than 17 minutes per game what would be more likely:

1) His +/- regresses more towards the rest of the team.

2) His +/- will continue to grow at the same proportional rate.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Well that is why +/- is a dumb stat to base an argument off of. If Curry plays more than 17 minutes per game what would be more likely:

1) His +/- regresses more towards the rest of the team.

2) His +/- will continue to grow at the same proportional rate.

Regression to the mean is always "more likely". I believe Rasta's point is that given the current data, we should conduct the experiment necessary to test the hypothesis.

 

[hoopsjock]

The difference between me and you Curry-haters is that you think I think +/- is a fail-safe indicator that Curry is a great player. But I don't. The difference is that YOU think OTHER stats are fail-safe indicators that he sucks. That and you think he looks shit.

He may indeed be shit. But the fact that you have to bend over backwards to "explain" his team-leading +/- stat leads me to doubt it. The longer he keeps up this team-leading +/- stat, the more I believe that his presence (even as a decoy) is helping the team. Maybe he's coasting on his rep even while shooting poorly. Hey, then his rep is helping the team. Great!

My goodness, there isn't a single stat that is a fail-safe indicator. I'll give you +/-, a career best 2.7 assists per game, and a stellar 46% from 3, but every single other stat is either below average, bad, or horrendous. You keep bringing up +/- while ignoring everything else, yet we're the ones not thinking right here? C'mon.

 

[hoopsjock]

Regression to the mean is always "more likely". I believe Rasta's point is that given the current data, we should conduct the experiment necessary to test the hypothesis.

Well, we also don't know how cautious they're being with his minutes considering he missed all of last year. It's possible they are limiting him.