More BRoy/Aldridge contract banter

[PapaG]

Wasn't it Kobe, that said that he would wait for his extension talks until his team was done negotiating with Ariza, and Odom. That is both wise and shows a heart to win. I hope Roy and LA have a similar desire. I would love to see the "team" succeed more than anything. It seems to all work together.

Kobe Byant has made a hell of a lot more money in his career than Roy or LMA, and he's still getting over $40 million guaranteed over the next two years. Hooray to Kobe Bryant for not opting out of a 7-year, $136 million contract. What a hero.

 

[STOMP]

I can't separate emotion or loyalty from this situation like you can. Teams (especially ones with GMs that incessantly talk about "culture") don't fuck around, and in general act incredibly cheap towards franchise players who exude good character.

What's even more embarrassing is that our owner is supposedly one of the richest in all of pro-sports, and he and his handlers are quibbling over a few million here and there, while pouring money down the drain to own and maintain multiple yachts in the Caribbean.

well I want Roy and Aldridge back on board longterm (like seemingly everyone in Blazer management is on record saying they will be) but I want even more then that. I want Greg, Rudy, Batum, Bayless, etc... to evolve their games and the club to have dynasty potential that they can afford to keep together. Their is zippo wrong and a whole lot right with getting these two at lower dollars to be able to afford the ceiling of what this club could become in a few years. Ed is spot on pointing at the choppy financial waters ahead. Any tact management chooses is a gamble, but trying to control costs from the outset of their young talents becoming FAs seems smart. PAllen has consistently shown he's willing to spend (which is appreciated) but there are limits to what he should reasonably expect to lose each year when these guys are all on their 2nd deals.

 

[PapaG]

well I want Roy and Aldridge back on board longterm (like seemingly everyone in Blazer management is on record saying they will be) but I want even more then that. I want Greg, Rudy, Batum, Bayless, etc... to evolve their games and the club to have dynasty potential that they can afford to keep together. Their is zippo wrong and a whole lot right with getting these two at lower dollars to be able to afford the ceiling of what this club could become in a few years. Ed is spot on pointing at the choppy financial waters ahead. Any tact management chooses is a gamble, but trying to control costs from the outset of their young talents becoming FAs seems smart. PAllen has consistently shown he's willing to spend (which is appreciated) but there are limits to what he should reasonably expect to lose each year when these guys are all on their 2nd deals.

STOMP

Frankly, all of the above became moot to me when Hedo Turkoglu was offered a 5 year/$50 million deal. That isn't "cost control" on an average player over 30. Allen was also willing to pay $8 million/per for a back-up PF.

This is the sort of negotiating BS that impacts the locker room, and I'm guessing Oden/Batum/Rudy/Bayless are watching how Roy is being treated, and wonder how players of lesser importance (such as them) will be treated.

 

[Tince]

Kobe Byant has made a hell of a lot more money in his career than Roy or LMA, and he's still getting over $40 million guaranteed over the next two years. Hooray to Kobe Bryant for not opting out of a 7-year, $136 million contract. What a hero.

Opting out? He was talking about an extension.

 

[Tince]

Frankly, all of the above became moot to me when Hedo Turkoglu was offered a 5 year/$50 million deal. That isn't "cost control" on an average player over 30. Allen was also willing to pay $8 million/per for a back-up PF.

This is the sort of negotiating BS that impacts the locker room, and I'm guessing Oden/Batum/Rudy/Bayless are watching how Roy is being treated, and wonder how players of lesser importance (such as them) will be treated.

Any proof of this?

 

[PapaG]

Opting out? He was talking about an extension.

Even better then. Meanwhile, how will he ever survive on ~$50 million over the next two years?

 

[PapaG]

Any proof of this?

My opinion, and these tactics did impact the Baby Bulls' locker room by media accounts.

BTW, any proof that the only way a person could be wondering about the Roy negotiations is because they are either (A) angry, or (B) lacking an understanding of business? Where is the proof of that statement?

 

[Tince]

Even better then. Meanwhile, how will he ever survive on ~$50 million over the next two years?

Probably the same way Roy could survive on a 4 year, $60M deal, or the $20M he's probably already made. Roy nor Kobe are roughing it, so I hope you're not implying Roy needs the money.

 

[PapaG]

Probably the same way Roy could survive on a 4 year, $60M deal, or the $20M he's probably already made. Roy nor Kobe are roughing it, so I hope you're not implying Roy needs the money.

By comparison, Roy is nowhere near Bryant's position financially, so holding up Bryant as being above it all because he's waiting to talk extension is not an accurate comparision IMO.

I didn't imply anything about Roy in my post, or even mention him.

 

[Tince]

My opinion, and these tactics did impact the Baby Bulls' locker room by media accounts.

BTW, any proof that the only way a person could be wondering about the Roy negotiations is because they are either (A) angry, or (B) lacking an understanding of business? Where is the proof of that statement?

As I said in the other thread, you are dramatizing what I said.

I never said if you are wondering about the Roy negotiations you are A or B. I simply made a separate statement that people like to be angry or don't understand business negotiations in reference to them not understanding why Portland would try to get a bargain when they are in a position of power.

The reason I made the angry statement is because odds are that Roy will be resigned, yet people are up in arms because he hsan't got an extension when his current deal still has two full seasons left on it. If Roy ends up taking less money or the Blazers end up getting a more flexible deal, odds are that we the fans end up the winner.

 

[Tince]

By comparison, Roy is nowhere near Bryant's position financially, so holding up Bryant as being above it all because he's waiting to talk extension is not an accurate comparision IMO.

I didn't imply anything about Roy in my post, or even mention him.

Roy and Bryant are both freaking rich and will never have to worry about money again.

Bryant realizes he's rich, he'll get his money come contract time, and wants his GM focusing on improving the team first. Roy, would like more than the $15M the Blazers have paid him before he puts the team before himself.

I have zero beef with Roy thinking about Roy first. Just like I have zero problem with the Blazers thinking about the organization before they think about Roy's feelings.

 

[PapaG]

Roy and Bryant are both freaking rich and will never have to worry about money again.

Bryant realizes he's rich, he'll get his money come contract time, and wants his GM focusing on improving the team first. Roy, would like more than the $15M the Blazers have paid him before he puts the team before himself.

I have zero beef with Roy thinking about Roy first. Just like I have zero problem with the Blazers thinking about the organization before they think about Roy's feelings.

Nice shot at Roy there. I'll remember that one. Roy is selfish, Bryant isn't. Gotcha.

 

[Tince]

Nice shot at Roy there. I'll remember that one. Roy is selfish, Bryant isn't. Gotcha.

In this situation, he is. I hope I didn't hurt his feelings.

I find it funny you didn't bold the part where I said I have zero beef with Roy being selfish. However, I probably shouldn't be surprised as doing that makes it look more dramatic.

Go ahead and remember the entire thing I said: Roy and the Blazers are being selfish. Kobe, for once, is showing signs of not being selfish.

 

[Nate4Prez]

Hey, yuyuza1, this is the part of the article you should focus on:

It does not look like either player gets their deal this summer, although both players continue to have talks with the team, it just does not seem like it's time to make a deal yet which is fairly common with players still two years away from unrestricted free agency.

Funny how you quoted this part but it seems you didn't read it.

 

[PapaG]

Hey, yuyuza1, this is the part of the article you should focus on:

it just does not seem like it's time to make a deal yet which is fairly common with players still two years away from unrestricted free agency

Funny how you quoted this part but it seems you didn't read it.

Common for players like LMA? Sure. Common for two-time All-Stars/2nd team All-NBA players?

Not so much.

 

[illmatic99]

Hey, yuyuza1, this is the part of the article you should focus on:


Funny how you quoted this part but it seems you didn't read it.

That's actually pretty uncommon for players of Roy's or Aldridge's caliber.

And I did read it.

WTF is with all the condescension on this board lately? You're telling me I didn't read something because I disagree with it. Another guy is telling me I am irrational, angry, and have no business sense whatsoever for calling out the Blazers for not extending Roy or Aldridge. (BTW, this still should not be a negotiation).

 

[PapaG]

That's actually pretty uncommon for players of Roy's or Aldridge's caliber.

And I did read it.

WTF is with all the condescension on this board lately?

We're idiots, they're not. It's the new form of debate on the board. Good times!

I don't see anything wrong with what you posted. I also don't see anything wrong with what Tince posted, although I don't agree with it. I don't think his either/or post added anything to the discussion, however.

There does seem to be a run on "you're dumb if you don't agree with me" these days.

 

[Tince]

We're idiots, they're not. It's the new form of debate on the board. Good times!

I don't see anything wrong with what you posted. I also don't see anything wrong with what Tince posted, although I don't agree with it. I don't think his either/or post added anything to the discussion, however.

There does seem to be a run on "you're dumb if you don't agree with me" these days.

I don't think that added to the discussion!

 

[Ed O]

Teams (especially ones with GMs that incessantly talk about "culture") don't fuck around, and in general act incredibly cheap towards franchise players who exude good character.

I disagree. I don't care what the GM is saying: negotiations are inevitable and healthy in almost every circumstance.

What's even more embarrassing is that our owner is supposedly one of the richest in all of pro-sports, and he and his handlers are quibbling over a few million here and there, while pouring money down the drain to own and maintain multiple yachts in the Caribbean.

You're embarrassed that he has really nice toys other than the Blazers? Really?

Why are you embarrassed that he chooses to spend money on the other hobbies, rather than on the Blazers?

Ed O.

 

[illmatic99]

Why are you embarrassed that he chooses to spend money on the other hobbies, rather than on the Blazers?

Ed O.

He's apparently counting pennies (relatively) on a venture that is starting to become profitable, while he is splurging on a luxury. If I were him, I'd ensure one of my profitable ventures is running without trouble (any possible disputes over negotiations leading to disputes on the floor-- see: Bulls), instead.

I suppose it is HIS money, in the end however.

 

[Tince]

He's apparently counting pennies (relatively) on a venture that is starting to become profitable, while he is splurging on a luxury. If I were him, I'd ensure one of my profitable ventures is running without trouble (any possible disputes over negotiations leading to disputes on the floor-- see: Bulls), instead.

I suppose it is HIS money, in the end however.

I would cut costs in my business where ever I could so I could have more fun money to play with in my personal life.

 

[Minstrel]

He's apparently counting pennies (relatively) on a venture that is starting to become profitable, while he is splurging on a luxury.

Both the Blazers and a yacht are luxuries.

If I were him, I'd ensure one of my profitable ventures is running without trouble (any possible disputes over negotiations leading to disputes on the floor-- see: Bulls), instead.

Whether or not the franchise is actually profitable, how are your theoretical preferences, were you in his position, relevant at all?

 

[illmatic99]

Both the Blazers and a yacht are luxuries.

I think that's arguable. Especially with people from Vulcan making public statements about how they are about to "break even."

Whether or not the franchise is actually profitable, how are your theoretical preferences, were you in his position, relevant at all?

That was simply a personal anecdote.

 

[PapaG]

Both the Blazers and a yacht are luxuries.

Then why the mandate to "break even" on the Blazers over the next two seasons?

Whether or not the franchise is actually profitable, how are your theoretical preferences, were you in his position, relevant at all?

They are relevant in that they are his opinion?

yuyuza hit it on the head. Condescension seems to be the new approach to arguing here. Validate your opinion! Why is it relevant? Kee-rist.

 

[Minstrel]

Then why the mandate to "break even" on the Blazers over the next two seasons?

What's the relevance? Every luxury has its price. Allen has thrown a lot of money at this particular one, so perhaps he'd rather stem the losses on it.

They are relevant in that they are his opinion?

It's his opinion about what he'd do if he had the money. How is it relevant as a criticism of Allen's approach to these negotiations?

Anyway, yuyuza clarified that it wasn't relevant to the topic, just a personal anecdote.

 

[illmatic99]

Alright, back to the topic on hand, can anyone think of a valid reason why the Blazers would be willing to offer Aldridge more money next year, but not this year?

 

[PapaG]

What's the relevance? Every luxury has its price. Allen has thrown a lot of money at this particular one, so perhaps he'd rather stem the losses on it.

So, it's being treated as a business, and yes, many employees of this "luxury" have lost their jobs, most notably when Steve Patterson fired 80-odd people. But it's still a "luxury". I don't buy it, at least not in a direct comparison to a yacht.

They're his opinion about what he'd do if he had the money. How are they relevant as a criticism of Allen's approach to these negotiations?

How aren't they relevant, considering that Allen clearly isn't running the Blazers as he "runs" his yacht? You comparing the two entities as being "luxuries" actually makes yuyuza's point even more relevant.

 

[PapaG]

Alright, back to the topic on hand, can anyone think of a valid reason why the Blazers would be willing to offer Aldridge more money next year, but not this year?

Injury risk.

Perhaps a trade of LMA and let the new team extend him?

There are two reasons. I wouldn't agree with the first reason, and the second would be assessed in the years after a trade.

 

[Minstrel]

So, it's being treated as a business, and yes, many employees of this "luxury" have lost their jobs, most notably when Steve Patterson fired 80-odd people. But it's still a "luxury". I don't buy it, at least not in a direct comparison to a yacht.

Why? If Allen decided that maintaining the yacht in a certain way was too costly and, instead, he'd maintain it at a somewhat less costly level (which may or may not involve laying off some of the maintenance staff), the yacht would cease to be a luxury?

How aren't they relevant, considering that Allen clearly isn't running the Blazers as he "runs" his yacht? You comparing the two entities as being "luxuries" actually makes yuyuza's point even more relevant.

yuyuza was saying which luxuries he'd give more attention to. I don't see what that has to do with whether Allen is doing something wrong or not, regarding how he runs the team or approaches these negotiations.

 

[PapaG]

Why? If Allen decided that maintaining the yacht in a certain way was too costly and, instead, he'd maintain it at a somewhat less costly level (which may or may not involve laying off some of the maintenance staff), the yacht would cease to be a luxury?

Allen can't possibly put out a mandate to "break even" on a yacht. It was a silly comparison. Perhaps they are both "luxuries", but one is clearly being run as a business.

yuyuza was saying which luxuries he'd give more attention to. I don't see what that has to do with whether Allen is doing something wrong or not, regarding how he runs the team or approaches these negotiations.

What is Allen doing wrong? How would me saying that I would act a certain way in a position make the person actually in that position wrong?