More from Nate regarding Oden

[Kaydow]

That stat is starting to piss me off.

3 TO's were him losing the ball. The other 4 were violations without the ball. The team also did a piss poor job getting Oden the ball where he needs it. It's yet another reason that Miller should be starting.

This is true. He got called for 3 in the key, and an illegal screen or two. I thought he lost the ball three times and had a traveling violation as well, didn't he? At any rate, when the Blazers did get the ball to him not much good was happening, with the exception of one nice pass he had to Miller under the basket. I would argue that there were more than a couple of times where they were trying to get Greg the ball and he just wasn't in good position. I saw it - they would look at him, and then go elsewhere. His footwork with his back to the basket needs some work. When did you see Greg in scoring position where the Blazers missed him? I was looking for it, trust me. I wanted to see Greg's "new & improved" post game. What I saw was that he's still very stationary. When the ball swung to his side, Houston could easily front the passing lane or cheat another guy that was in double team distance of Greg because there was no threat of him taking advantage of it. He needs to be more active, and when teams front him he needs to go to the basket where they can throw a lob over the top and Greg catches it (doesn't bring it down where it can get slapped away by a weakside defender) and quickly finish. I also noticed that he still holds to ball too long. He's got to be able to catch it, quick drop step or spin, and go up. I know many disagree, but I don't think we should force the ball into Greg on nights like that.

I'm not bashing Greg. I was excited about his defense & rebounding.

 

[andalusian]

Interesting quote from Quick on his chat - supposedly from Nate.

"These people have no clue".

Sorry to disappoint - but until this team fails (which it has yet to do under this coaching staff) - I am with Nate.

Addition - apparently, Oden is not upset about his touches - and thinks he made mistakes so he should not have got the ball.

 

[RoyToy]

When Greg Oden is within 5 feet of the basket you give him the ball, period. Sadly this doesn't happen enough.

 

[Uther TheGardener]

Interesting quote from Quick on his chat - supposedly from Nate.

"These people have no clue".

Sorry to disappoint - but until this team fails (which it has yet to do under this coaching staff) - I am with Nate.

Addition - apparently, Oden is not upset about his touches - and thinks he made mistakes so he should not have got the ball.

funny but i remember them failing badly in the playoffs.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

It'd be interesting if Nate could get his perimeter players to be as defensive as he is when he's questioned about these things.

 

[illmatic99]

It'd be interesting if Nate could get his perimeter players to be as defensive as he is when he's questioned about these things.

 

[Mediocre Man]

It'd be interesting if Nate could get his perimeter players to be as defensive as he is when he's questioned about these things.

haha

 

[Tince]

Do people think Greg does a good job of rolling after he sets a screen? Do they think he has good hands? In my opinion he's below average in both areas, yet I'm happy to see improvement.

I noticed Andre Miller struggling to get Greg the ball in the P&R. We know it's not because he doesn't know how to run a pick and roll.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Interesting quote from Quick on his chat - supposedly from Nate.

"These people have no clue".

Sorry to disappoint - but until this team fails (which it has yet to do under this coaching staff) - I am with Nate.

Addition - apparently, Oden is not upset about his touches - and thinks he made mistakes so he should not have got the ball.

Excellent. I am so happy our center doesn't think he deserves the ball. Nate is the great motivator.

 

[Tince]

Interesting quote from Quick on his chat - supposedly from Nate.

"These people have no clue".

Sorry to disappoint - but until this team fails (which it has yet to do under this coaching staff) - I am with Nate.

Addition - apparently, Oden is not upset about his touches - and thinks he made mistakes so he should not have got the ball.

This post makes way too much sense, I expect it to get torn apart.

Repped!

 

[andalusian]

funny but i remember them failing badly in the playoffs.

Failing badly? They lost in 6 games to a team that took the eventual champions to 7 games. They failed - but it was not such a surprise. Experience is very important in this league and they had almost no experience in this environment.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

It'd be interesting if Nate could get his perimeter players to be as defensive as he is when he's questioned about these things.

Is Nate being defensive? I could see how some would interpret his comments like that.

But in the context of a coach who refuses to sigh more than a one year deal because he wants to make sure he earns an extension each year . . . an attitude like that, I'll put up with him being defensive (which I don't think he is) to micro scrutiny by the media.

 

[andalusian]

Excellent. I am so happy our center doesn't think he deserves the ball. Nate is the great motivator.

Have you listened to it? He (Greg) said that he lost the ball so he did not deserve it. Apparently he was lost on offense a couple of times (lost his place in the set).

No motivation issues - sounds like it was a clear case of someone that actually does not have delusions about his play. He was also apparently very happy about his performance defensively.

 

[Ed O]

Is Nate being defensive? I could see how some would interpret his comments like that.

But in the context of a coach who refuses to sigh more than a one year deal because he wants to make sure he earns an extension each year . . . an attitude like that, I'll put up with him being defensive (which I don't think he is) to micro scrutiny by the media.

This is micro-scrutiny? Talking about why one of the best center prospects in a decade got to touch the ball 10 times on offense in nearly 30 minutes?

Ed O.

 

[RR7]

To be honest the most infuriating thing about Nate is his aversion to actually passing the ball to the roller on a pick and roll. He made Joel an absolute non-factor on offense since he's been here because he refuses to use the one offensive set that Joel could complete with Damon on any consistent basis. When you have a 7'0 guy like Greg who has okay hands, and can cover a lot of ground it's pretty insane that we don't do a pick and roll and give it to him at least a few times a game.

Wait, Nate's playing and not just coaching? How does Nate control a pass off of the PnR? Do you think he honestly says if the guy rolls well, and is open, DON'T pass to him?

 

[RR7]

This is micro-scrutiny? Talking about why one of the best center prospects in a decade got to touch the ball 10 times on offense in nearly 30 minutes?

Ed O.

He only touched the ball 10 times on offense?

 

[illmatic99]

He only touched the ball 10 times on offense?

Yes.

From B-Edge:

 

[Tince]

Yes.

From B-Edge:

I swear I counted 11 offensive opportunities, and that didn't count 3 offensive rebounds that he kicked out and the handful of times he reversed the ball to start our offense (which he commonly does).

I'm wondering if whoever made this log confused touches with offensive opportunities. Either way, if you are turning the ball over 30% of the time you TOUCH the ball, that is worse. I don't buy the accuracy of this log.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

Is Nate being defensive? I could see how some would interpret his comments like that.

But in the context of a coach who refuses to sigh more than a one year deal because he wants to make sure he earns an extension each year . . . an attitude like that, I'll put up with him being defensive (which I don't think he is) to micro scrutiny by the media.

It is true I am assuming he is being defensive, but in my defense Quick has mentioned multiple times in the past how Nate is defensive when he is questioned about lineups, rotations, and the team defense (in particular on whether they switch too much or not).

 

[illmatic99]

Don't buy it? Okay.

Here's the source: http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/10/28/1105221/charting-greg-odens-touches

 

[andalusian]

He only touched the ball 10 times on offense?

Well, if you look at the chart presented above - you will see that in the first quarter, when Oden was on the court - there were 5 plays for Oden, 5 for Roy, 4 for LMA, 1 for Blake and 2 for Outlaw. During that time Oden had 3 turn-overs, 1 assist and 1 miss.

Sounds to me like they saw that Hayes was giving him a real hard time on offense in the first quarter - and decided to let him concentrate on the defense for the rest of the game instead of getting frustrated with his botched offense. And guess what - it worked. He did great on defense and the team won by 9 points.

Look at that, Nate had an in-game adjustment and "the clueless" are still upset.

Good on Nate for doing the in-game adjustment, and good on Oden for being positive with his game and his success on defense.

 

[RR7]

Well, if you look at the chart presented above - you will see that in the first quarter, when Oden was on the court - there were 5 plays for Oden, 5 for Roy, 4 for LMA, 1 for Blake and 2 for Outlaw. During that time Oden had 3 turn-overs, 1 assist and 1 miss.

Sounds to me like they saw that Hayes was giving him a real hard time on offense in the first quarter - and decided to let him concentrate on the defense for the rest of the game instead of getting frustrated with his botched offense. And guess what - it worked. He did great on defense and the team won by 9 points.

Look at that, Nate had an in-game adjustment and "the clueless" are still upset.

Good on Nate for doing the in-game adjustment, and good on Oden for being positive with his game and his success on defense.

Obviously you are mistaken and clueless. Nate doesn't make adjustments.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

Wait, Nate's playing and not just coaching? How does Nate control a pass off of the PnR? Do you think he honestly says if the guy rolls well, and is open, DON'T pass to him?

I'm saying that Joel, before Nate got here, actually wasn't a non-factor on offense like he is regarded as now. He wasn't a force, he wasn't some dominating post scorer, but other teams had to respect that Joel could actually catch the ball at the rim on a pick and roll. When Nate got here we pretty much cut that play to Joel out of the proverbial basketball picture. We're much more a pick and pop team, and we're ignoring an option that would at least make teams stick with Joel on offense more than they do now. The same should be applied to Greg, and even moreso.

 

[Tince]

Don't buy it? Okay.

Here's the source: http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/10/28/1105221/charting-greg-odens-touches

I caught that it was on Blazersedge, thanks for the link.

I'll use Synergy to check this out tomorrow.

When Greg had 3 TO's with the ball in his hand, 3 FGA, and 4 offensive rebounds that is 10 touches right there. I know for a fact he reversed the ball a handful of times, had an assist for a layup, and kicked the ball out a couple times. So if the boxscore accounts for 10 touches along, I think it's safe to say that log is not accurate.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

Except you're counting one of his offensive rebounds which led to a field goal as two separate touches when it was the same touch.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

This is micro-scrutiny? Talking about why one of the best center prospects in a decade got to touch the ball 10 times on offense in nearly 30 minutes?

Ed O.

I think so, because the point seems to be the dominating idea after the Blazers won and Oden had a good defensive game. As Nate expressed (so I read) "they just don't know what they are talking about" referring to the criticism of Oden not getting the ball enough.

This isn't about Oden getting a certain amount of touches down low . . . it should be about whether the Blazers are playing well as a team. In fact the biggest concern I'm guessing Nate has and should be the issue is the number of TO the Blazers had. But of course if this board made that the issue, than that would weaken all this Oden should get the ball more talk.

So the media and this board will raise some small issue (at least a small issue in the minds of the coach and players).

You said it best yourself in another thread . . . the fact he was "one of the best center prospects in a decade" is really irrelevant to what he is today. If he has a top center post up game, feed him the ball. If he doesn't, slowly work him into the offense. It's not about what he was as a prospect but what he can do now. (Didn't you raise that point, which i I thought was a good point . . . I know you raised in in the context of if they drafted him for defense but he is an offensive Juggernaut, then adapt. I agree but thinks it goes both ways.)

 

[Tince]

Except you're counting one of his offensive rebounds which led to a field goal as two separate touches when it was the same touch.

Excellent point!

So subtract 1, add in the play he had an assist and that still gets us 10 documented touches based off the box score. So now I'm supposed to believe I never saw Greg get the ball in the post and kick it out, or reverse the ball to get us in our offense. I think Ben defines touches differently than I do.

 

[RR7]

Except you're counting one of his offensive rebounds which led to a field goal as two separate touches when it was the same touch.

Then you get 3 TOs, 3 FGA, and 3 offensive rebounds(excluding the 4th, as it is included in the FGA), and the one assist. 10 touches. As was mentioned, I know I saw him swing the ball from the post, I don't know where those are included, or how the touches is calculated.

 

[illmatic99]

Well, if you look at the chart presented above - you will see that in the first quarter, when Oden was on the court - there were 5 plays for Oden, 5 for Roy, 4 for LMA, 1 for Blake and 2 for Outlaw. During that time Oden had 3 turn-overs, 1 assist and 1 miss.

Sounds to me like they saw that Hayes was giving him a real hard time on offense in the first quarter - and decided to let him concentrate on the defense for the rest of the game instead of getting frustrated with his botched offense. And guess what - it worked. He did great on defense and the team won by 9 points.

So, Nate gave him no chances to change up his moves and become more assertive? How about feeding the ball on the move (see the P&R stuff TSE's talking about)?

I just don't understand how you justify him touching the ball 5 times in three quarters as Nate making a positive change.

 

[andalusian]

Obviously you are mistaken and clueless. Nate doesn't make adjustments.

This board is so screwed up that I do not know if you are serious or sarcastic.

I will go with you agree with me an you are sarcastic... until told otherwise.