Notice More US school-age children die from guns than on-duty US police or global military fatalities

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Funny, you quoted my post yet your question has nothing to do with my post (maybe slightly related, but... very slightly). Strange.

aren't we talking about gun deaths?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I agree that guns are part of the problem. Mental health is part. Bullying is part. Absent parents and role models is part. Modern communication methods are part. We should be working as a society to correct all these parts of the problems. Guns laws are one piece that needs to be addressed. This doesn’t mean outlaw all firearms, but we need to start trying reduce the ease of certain types of firearms and ammunition accumulation by wackos.

What about Gang Culture? Funny that you don't mention that.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

There are those that have Aspergers, and then there are another group whom will pass the test given to detect Aspergers. These are also a very large percentage of another group identified by Dr. Keirsey.

Many of the mass shooters are aspergers or are at least on the spectrum.

 

[MarAzul]

Many of the mass shooters are aspergers or are at least on the spectrum.

So I have read. Another thing I notices is; damn near all of them in the past 20 years or so are young white boys with no father or Father is missing in their home even though he maybe around somewhere. What the hell is up with this? More research needed. Why the white boys and no blacks? The white boy shooting up the schools while the black boys blow the shit out of each other on the streets. WTF??? These look like mental problems alright. And I expect, we are causing them.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

So I have read. Another thing I notices is; damn near all of them in the past 20 years or so are young white boys with no father or Father is missing in their home even though he maybe around somewhere. What the hell is up with this? More research needed. Why the white boys and no blacks? The white boy shooting up the schools while the black boys blow the shit out of each other on the streets. WTF??? These look like mental problems alright. And I expect, we are causing them.

My theory is that white single moms are more likely to think that their "special little guy" is "special in their own regard" and doesn't get the diagnosis for aspergers/autism. White people are very defensive about their special little kids, and it probably fucks them up if they have something wired wrong in their heads. They baby them way too much and ignore any violent psychotic behavior out of pure neglect or avoidance.

 

[Road Ratt]

aren't we talking about gun deaths?

This thread is about gun deaths, my post was on a couple of reasons why I believe that the problem still persists.


I don't really see the need to travel this pathway with you when the problem starts in our congress and with the entities that are corrupting it. Most other factors below that are a waste of time.

Which of these is related to the fact that black kids are 41% of youth gun deaths? Mental health or gun control?

 

[Natebishop3]

After 9/11 air-travel became a lot harder with a lot more security and much harder access to the planes. Nobody blames the planes, but rightfully, access to them is restricted. Same applies to guns.

And people way overreacted to airport security after 9/11.

The hijackers brought box cutters on the planes, which were completely legal to bring on airplanes at that time, but we freaked out and created the TSA and made air travel significantly more annoying for an issue that never existed. All they had to do was change the rules.

You are right though, that they had to change the rules about access to the cockpit.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

This thread is about gun deaths, my post was on a couple of reasons why I believe that the problem still persists.

I don't really see the need to travel this pathway with you when the problem starts in our congress and with the entities that are corrupting it. Most other factors below that are a waste of time.

You mean travel the pathway where the answer lies? The young black population is killed at a rate way higher than their population would suggest would be normal. But this is an issue with Congress and corrupt gun lobby entities????

That's what causes gangsters to kill each other? Guys in Washington?

Regulating guns via congress will end that I suppose and dealing with the actual issue is a waste of time.

 

[andalusian]

You are right though, that they had to change the rules about access to the cockpit.

That's the point being made. The issue is without doubt, access to guns. If there was much better vetting - who can access guns - the problem's proportion will shrink considerably.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

We do need to ban people with any type of autism, learning disorder or under the treatment of a psychologist or psychiatrist any access to guns. I'd go as far as to say anyone under any anti-depressants or mood altering drugs. Perhaps one should be cleared with a psychological profile and drug test before buying a gun/ammo. Guns in the hands of the elite only. We can have a phone predict what you want to buy, we should use these algorithms to find out who is likely to be violent and use guns to kill people.

Then we need to address the black community. We can't ban by skin color, but more needs to be done enforcement wise. There should be raids on the community to find any guns and gangs and break them up and strip the community of unregistered/illegal guns, while ensuring responsible adults in that community can have access to them.

 

[Natebishop3]

That's the point being made. The issue is without doubt, access to guns. If there was much better vetting - who can access guns - the problem's proportion will shrink considerably.

They don't though.

If the problem is airplanes crashing into buildings, than sure. But limiting access to guns isn't going to lower suicides. Limiting access to guns isn't going to lower the rate of accidents because it doesn't solve the root issue. People have accidents because they don't practice good safety. Maybe they don't even know how to practice good safety. And a mass shooting can be done with something as simple as a shotgun or a handgun. It has happened before. People just steal a gun from someone who acquired it legally. That's the problem that I have with this argument that stricter gun laws will lower deaths. I don't think it will.

 

[barfo]

But limiting access to guns isn't going to lower suicides.

Disagree. Suicide is often an impulsive decision; not having an easy way at hand to carry it out may in fact prevent it.

Limiting access to guns isn't going to lower the rate of accidents because it doesn't solve the root issue. People have accidents because they don't practice good safety.

Well, if they don't have a gun they won't have a gun accident. Maybe they'll slip in the bathtub instead, you mean? I don't think there is a law of conservation of accidents. If you prevent one, you don't cause a different one to happen.

Maybe they don't even know how to practice good safety. And a mass shooting can be done with something as simple as a shotgun or a handgun. It has happened before. People just steal a gun from someone who acquired it legally. That's the problem that I have with this argument that stricter gun laws will lower deaths. I don't think it will.

Maybe it won't, but your arguments for why it won't aren't too convincing.

barfo

 

[Natebishop3]

Disagree. Suicide is often an impulsive decision; not having an easy way at hand to carry it out may in fact prevent it.

Really? Explain why Japan has such an extremely high rate of suicide despite having no access to guns?

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/suicide-rate-by-country/

 

[andalusian]

They don't though.

If the problem is airplanes crashing into buildings, than sure. But limiting access to guns isn't going to lower suicides. Limiting access to guns isn't going to lower the rate of accidents because it doesn't solve the root issue. People have accidents because they don't practice good safety. Maybe they don't even know how to practice good safety. And a mass shooting can be done with something as simple as a shotgun or a handgun. It has happened before. People just steal a gun from someone who acquired it legally. That's the problem that I have with this argument that stricter gun laws will lower deaths. I don't think it will.

I am willing to accept the idea that people that are determined to commit suicide might find other ways to do it without guns (although the US is highest in the world per capita in this department) - so I do not think that making suicide harder on people is a bad idea, but let's leave it aside for a second.

In the US, the rate of firearm-related homicide per capita is 20 worst in the world, but if you compare us to first-world countries we are 4 times worth than Israel (where access to guns is rather easy because so many people go to the army), 4 times worse than Germany, 8 times worse than Canada, 20 times worse than Austria, 40 times worse than norway, 80 times worse than the UK. The very idea that limiting access to guns is not going to lower deaths is absurd. We have hard data from around the world that debunks this nonsense. Even if the firearm related deaths in the US are 60% suicide, 40% other, saving as much as possible of the 40% is well worth limiting access to firearms.

 

[MarAzul]

We do need to ban people with any type of autism

I am not ready, even close to agreeing with this one. Not even sure the autism or Asperger syndrome has shit to do with it. Almost all INTP character types will test positive for Asperger in the test and not be handicapped at all. No no, more research please and research in this area has a hard time finding funding. That is worth another discussion another day.

Bad shit is happening and it probably is caused by our society. It needs to be researched and troubled people do need to be helped. For sure, for certain. But we can not just start taking away the right of people to defend themselves, on unsubstantiated theory, or theoretical possible connections.

 

[barfo]

Really? Explain why Japan has such an extremely high rate of suicide despite having no access to guns?

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/suicide-rate-by-country/

You are asking the wrong question. The right question would be, how many more suicides would japan have if they all had guns?

My guess is quite a few. Hopefully that's an experiment they don't undertake.

But to answer your question, I'd guess it has something to do with the pressures of living in their conformist society. I've spent a bunch of time there, but I certainly can't claim to understand the problem.

barfo

 

[riverman]

No. The issue is that we disagree about how to fix the problem.

I've mentioned this before but a limited manually chambered gun will not allow mass serial shootings to occur...it's not the gun...it's the type of ammo capability and the fact someone can carry that much chambered ammo around in public and or multiple guns. You could defend yourself with a single shot pistol from a lone attacker....you don't need magazines full of ammo...I'd rather the things were not publicly easy to obtain and you and I define "tools" differently....crazy people could flip out and kill you with a toaster but to load weapons, acquire a bunch of gear and plan a mass shooting takes thinking ahead....which changes the mental health aspect of it...sure depression and anger are mental health issues but road rage happens

 

[barfo]

I've mentioned this before but a limited manually chambered gun will not allow mass serial shootings to occur...it's not the gun...it's the type of ammo capability and the fact someone can carry that much chambered ammo around in public and or multiple guns. You could defend yourself with a single shot pistol from a lone attacker....you don't need magazines full of ammo...I'd rather the things were not publicly easy to obtain and you and I define "tools" differently....

But what if you were attacked by the US Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and SPACE FORCE? Wouldn't you need more firepower then?

That's what we are supposed to be very afraid of, right? Our government attacking us? That's the tyranny we need arms to defend ourselves from?

barfo

 

[riverman]

Really? Explain why Japan has such an extremely high rate of suicide despite having no access to guns?

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/suicide-rate-by-country/

It's traditionally considered honorable to take one's own life in their culture....weird practice but goes back thousands of years there...suicide isn't a big traumatic event in Japan...unless it's kids over school grades...which does happen

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I am not ready, even close to agreeing with this one. Not even sure the autism or Asperger syndrome has shit to do with it. Almost all INTP character types will test positive for Asperger in the test and not be handicapped at all. No no, more research please and research in this area has a hard time finding funding. That is worth another discussion another day.

Bad shit is happening and it probably is caused by our society. It needs to be researched and troubled people do need to be helped. For sure, for certain. But we can not just start taking away the right of people to defend themselves, on unsubstantiated theory, or theoretical possible connections.

Look at the mass shooters. Just look at them. Its a little more than them being young males, they obviously fall on the spectrum and can't handle it.

People can't handle the truth.

 

[Natebishop3]

The right question would be, how many more suicides would japan have if they all had guns?

Well, clearly all of them. Everyone there would take their own lives if they had the temptation of a gun.

 

[Road Ratt]

You mean travel the pathway where the answer lies? The young black population is killed at a rate way higher than their population would suggest would be normal. But this is an issue with Congress and corrupt gun lobby entities????

That's what causes gangsters to kill each other? Guys in Washington?

Regulating guns via congress will end that I suppose and dealing with the actual issue is a waste of time.

Thank you for playing.

I knew you were up to something with your distraction question. Trying to take me to a point you wanted to make, rather than actually giving a crap about the issue. Very deceptive of you. Sorry, but I don't do deceptive.

This is the exact reason I don't do online "debating" very often. Too many people are nothing more than deceptive and childish in how they deal with others online.

Edit: Can I see you now? If not, it wasn't my fault for that.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Thank you for playing.

I knew you were up to something with your distraction question. Trying to take me to a point you wanted to make, rather than actually giving a crap about the issue. Very deceptive of you. Sorry, but I don't do deceptive.

This is the exact reason I don't do online "debating" very often. Too many people are nothing more than deceptive and childish in how they deal with others online.

Its the subject of the post and the central issue at hand. Blaming politicians, gun control, whatever, is a red herring. Might as well talk about how many people die in hunting accidents or guns being discharged haphazardly.

US School Age Children Die more than US police and global military.

So the question is how is this happening? Who is this happening to?

The anomaly of it all is the disproportionate number of black children dying from gun violence. 14% of the population, 41% of gun deaths.

That is the thing here that's shocking and what should be looked and fixed if you want to decrease these numbers.

 

[Lanny]

If they were dying from mechanical failure, sure. But gun deaths aren't from mechanical failure (mostly).

If it was from pilot error that would be a completely different story, and if it was because pilots were deliberately crashing planes I can guarantee you that they wouldn't blame the airplanes.

They blamed the Boeing 737 for crashing.
Anyhow, airplanes are not purposely designed to take lives.

 

[Lanny]

Really? Explain why Japan has such an extremely high rate of suicide despite having no access to guns?

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/suicide-rate-by-country/

A historic culture of suicide.

 

[Natebishop3]

They blamed the Boeing 737 for crashing.
Anyhow, airplanes are not purposely designed to take lives.

Because it was a mechanical issue. Not a user issue.

Guns are designed to kill. They're killing people. Working as intended. Airplanes are meant to stay in the sky, right?

 

[Orion Bailey]

Just stop. Really...

You've said this before and again aren't ready to do ANYTHING.

Are we going to take guns away as suicide prevention?? Because that's what is used most in suicide attempts.

If you are ready to kill yourself then you are mentally ill.

Again, you have NOTHING about taking guns away from the mentally ill.. Know why??

Gun nuts are mentally ill that's why...

I think there should be a varying degree when labeling a gun nut. There are certainly mentally ill gun nuts, but not all who believe in and excersize the right to own a gun are gun nuts. Some have simply been in the military and are trained to live life in such a manner, as to always have an ability to defend oneself.

Different teaching and environments might dictTe a varying degree of reason why one might own a gun. Not just that they are gun nuts

( not saying you said all gun owners are gun nuts)

 

[Hoopguru]

Its saddens me that there is so much polarization that any side doesn't seem to want to put down their arguments for the sake of addressing life altering/dangerous issues facing our young people and society.
Many families experienced tragedy from numerous cultural privileges, Alcohol that kills many ways, drugs the same, wrongful gun ownership and responsibility, using cell phones/texting while driving, ect. All terrible and should be addressed by responsible people regardless. Other tragedies that aren't really abuse's of privilege to use, or operate, but blatant violent crimes from gangs, and those that want to use fear and violence to get what they want and have zero respect for the law.
It's going to take all of us to put down our doctrines and tackle these issues as concerned citizens with back bone & toughness.
Heroin and gang indoctrination is prevalent in schools and a cancer to communities, needs to be cut out completely like my prostate was to prevent further damage.
Peace and love, flowers and beads!!

 

[Lanny]

Because it was a mechanical issue. Not a user issue.

Guns are designed to kill. They're killing people. Working as intended. Airplanes are meant to stay in the sky, right?

How many people are shot in the United States by people using something other than a gun?
Look, this whole issue is like a chain. Go for the easiest link to break the chain. Let's start with the low hanging fruit, background checks.

 

[Lanny]

Its saddens me that there is so much polarization that any side doesn't seem to want to put down their arguments for the sake of addressing life altering/dangerous issues facing our young people and society.
Many families experienced tragedy from numerous cultural privileges, Alcohol that kills many ways, drugs the same, wrongful gun ownership and responsibility, using cell phones/texting while driving, ect. All terrible and should be addressed by responsible people regardless. Other tragedies that aren't really abuse's of privilege to use, or operate, but blatant violent crimes from gangs, and those that want to use fear and violence to get what they want and have zero respect for the law.
It's going to take all of us to put down our doctrines and tackle these issues as concerned citizens with back bone & toughness.
Heroin and gang indoctrination is prevalent in schools and a cancer to communities, needs to be cut out completely like my prostate was to prevent further damage.
Peace and love, flowers and beads!!

What's the easiest to control that would bring the most immediate effect?