Ms. Keeton, The KKK, And All That Jazz............

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As far as I know, ASU was pinning Ms. Keeton down as to make her accept that homosexuality is not a choice (i.e. people can be born that way). Ms. Keeton wouldn't accept that directive from them.

I have no idea whether this is true, but even if so...not "accepting that directive" (when pretty much all the data points to homosexuality being an innate thing) is akin to a medical student not "accepting the directive" about evolution being an existing dynamic. Evolution is a key part of developing medicines and fighting disease. Understanding that homosexuality is generally not a choice is a key part of helping a student who's struggling due to being part of a minority that's persecuted to some extent. When the preponderance of evidence supports a "directive" and that "directive" bears directly on the job you're working to get a degree for...you're justifiably going to be in academic hot water.

If she doesn't wish to "accept that directive," she shouldn't try for a degree that qualifies her to, among other things, counsel gay students. She can remain firm in her unsubstantiated belief and academics can continue on properly.
 
And now we're moving into the "Christians = stupid" part of this discussion. I figured it was coming.

Just for the sake of wondering, what does anyone hope to accomplish in the course of doing this?
 
And now we're moving into the "Christians = stupid" part of this discussion. I figured it was coming.

Just for the sake of wondering, what does anyone hope to accomplish in the course of doing this?


I don't think Christians are any more stupid than any other class/group of people.

hehe, grammar proved I was stupid just now.
 
And now we're moving into the "Christians = stupid" part of this discussion. I figured it was coming.

Just for the sake of wondering, what does anyone hope to accomplish in the course of doing this?

This thread will once and for all resolve all faith vs. reason issues. At least, that's what I believe, and I'm not going to listen to any arguments to the contrary.

barfo
 
And now we're moving into the "Christians = stupid" part of this discussion.

Really? I didn't notice anyone make that claim or imply it.

I certainly don't think Christians, as a group, are stupid. No more so than any other large sample of humans.
 
And now we're moving into the "Christians = stupid" part of this discussion. I figured it was coming.

Just for the sake of wondering, what does anyone hope to accomplish in the course of doing this?

My purpose was for anyone with the belief that homosexuality was a choice to reconsider that stance. There may be people that find both sexes attractive, but I know that I have never thought of a man that way and most of the homosexuals I have known feel the same way about the opposite sex. Most had relations with the opposite sex in order to feel a part of society, had serious issues, and then accepted who they were.

Also, I do not see where a distinction was made where one side said it was a choice and the other said it was a mental illness. It may have been compared to a mental illness, but no one was saying that it was wrong or needed to be cured. If 98% of the population was homosexual and only 2% were heterosexual, I would hope that a cousellor was trained in heterosexual studies.
 
There's absolutely no question in my mind that I'd be dead by now had I not chosen Christ.

You being saved by Christ does not validate every interpretation of the Bible though. I am sure there are millions that feel the same way about their religion. Hopefully you guys never kill each other, both thinking you are doing the Lord's work.
 
ABM said:
There's absolutely no question in my mind that I'd be dead by now had I not chosen Christ.

How do you explain the fact that I'm still alive, then?

Is it (a) a miracle, or (b) the Lord works in mysterious ways?

Personally, I go with (c) that which does not kill you makes you stronger.

barfo
 
Personally, I go with (c) that which does not kill you makes you stronger.

So you admit that God gives you strength. After all, He (or She) has not killed you.
 
So you admit that God gives you strength. After all, He (or She) has not killed you.

Or at least, God does not sap my strength. Does he then strengthen my sap? I don't think that's so clear (translucent, but not transparent, and somewhat sticky).

It does seem like God should have killed me by now, if S/He was going to.

barfo
 
It took over 200 posts (206 to be exact) but this thread has finally found a way to die.
 
It took over 200 posts (206 to be exact) but this thread has finally found a way to die.

We can reanimate it. We have the technology. We can make it longer, sillier, more pointless...

barfo
 
Please let it did the way Bea Arther died, peacefully and calmly.... and not the way Ted Williams died. Frozen, with a severed head ready to be revived later on.
 
Please let it did the way Bea Arther died, peacefully and calmly.... and not the way Ted Williams died. Frozen, with a severed head ready to be revived later on.

And used as a football, you forgot that part.

barfo
 
You might be sorry but you'll still do things that make me and other homosexuals feel this way. I don't think you understand how humiliating it can be being gay, especially as a young kid. I don't think you understand how harmful things like "well, it's a lifestyle choice" are to people. I think you, and many others, underestimate the amount of shit gay people get, how often and how soon people start dropping "fucking queer, how fucking gay, what a god damn fa-bomb". How that fucking burns you inside, and makes you feel so shamed. When we've done nothing wrong but live.

Where we're told we're pushing an agenda by simply showing affection to our loved ones, and on a smaller scale than our heterosexual counterparts. When having a couple of mainstream gay characters on tv leads to fucking CNN publishing a poll asking "is there too much gay on tv?". Do you understand how that hurts? Do you understand how it rips out a part of you when even liberal states vote no on gay marriage? When that may be the most public issue, it is just one of many where we get treated as less?

You can believe what the Bible teaches you, I don't mind. I come from a very religious family, I understand religion and why people follow it. I understand it helps guide people and gives them peace in their life and an inner calm.

I also understand why some people of religion use all these things to deny other legal and consenting adults of their rights, and that isn't cool. I'm not trying to tell you your religion is bad, that you don't deserve rights, that your issues aren't really that big of a deal if they just make up a certain percentage of population or when you're treated bad you're just sensationalizing it.

But a lot of people like you tell me those things. They tell young gay kids those things, and young gay kids don't need that shit. They don't need to be told they chose something that gets them ridiculed and beaten. They don't need to be told that not coming out is keeping something secret, as if it is something you should be ashamed of rather than the real reason most people who stay in the closet: absolute fear of losing friends, jobs, family, and their personal safety.

The amount of self-hatred such things puts in a young person growing up, a young person who may not feel they have someone they can talk to, or are terrified they'll run into a counselor like this Ms. Keeton, is.. overwhelming. Overwhelming is the only word I can use, and it is not even adequate enough.

Your two recent accounts (posts) are some of the most heart-wrenching, brutally honest and thought-provoking pieces I've ever read in here. All that said, I truly hope you find your way in life - regardless of the path(s) you end up taking. Hope springs eternal, though.

Thanks,

ABM
 
How do you explain the fact that I'm still alive, then?

We all take different journeys, barfo. I have no idea the one you've taken, or are taking. I simply related that the one I was on had been leading to destruction
 
I truly hope you find your way in life - regardless of the path(s) you end up taking.

TSE, I hope you take supposed well wishes like this and be strong enough not to tell the person to shove it up their ass.
 
How do you explain the fact that I'm still alive, then?

Is it (a) a miracle, or (b) the Lord works in mysterious ways?

Personally, I go with (c) that which does not kill you makes you stronger.

barfo

(c) both of the above
 
Sabby Express seems confused and angry in this thread. Lashing out at other posters does nothing to help herself deal with the obvious frustrations, as well as the victimhood she is embracing. The mid-20s can be a confusing time for a maturing adult, but trying to make all people see things as you do is a losing fight from world one.

I hope she finds something in her life to believe in, and that leads to happiness, and I'm not a religious person in any sense of the word. Lashing out and attacking people for having a differing opinion, be it toward homosexuality, religion, sports team, etc. etc., is not healthy.
 
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Sabby Express seems confused and angry in this thread. Lashing out at other posters does nothing to help herself deal with the obvious frustrations, as well as the victimhood she is embracing. The mid-20s can be a confusing time for a maturing adult, but trying to make all people see things as you do is a losing fight from world one.

I hope she finds something in her life to believe in, and that leads to happiness, and I'm not a religious person in any sense of the word. Lashing out and attacking people for having a differing opinion, be it toward homosexuality, religion, sports team, etc. etc., is not healthy.

Huh? I don't see TSE attacking anybody. I'm not sure if TSE is male or female either. I suggest you reread the post.
 
Huh? I don't see TSE attacking anybody. I'm not sure if TSE is male or female either. I suggest you reread the post.

I'm speaking more to the pattern I've seen in her posts. I say "her" because the poster claimed to be a female.
 
I'm speaking more to the pattern I've seen in her posts..


and, from a pattern perspective, that puts you..............where? Glass houses much? ;)
 

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