MSP says "they have spoken to quick on who is being moved"

[blazerboy30]

He counted on them staying healthy knowing what he knew. Terrible idea.

Please tell us... what exactly did Cho know about Roy and Oden's long-term health when he was hired?

 

[RoyToy]

Please tell us... what exactly did Cho know about Roy and Oden's long-term health when he was hired?

I'm sure no one else in the league knows that Oden has suffered two season ending injuries. I'm also sure it didn't take him more then 15 minutes of reading up on Roy to figure out Roy has had two surgeries on each knee, all meniscus related. He did however already know the day he was hired that Wesley Matthews made the highest percent of his 3pt shots from like the left corner 3 or something.

Cho knew. He didn't act on it. His plan to rely on these injured players failed miserably.

Keep playing dumb, though.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

After listening to Quick this morning I didn't come away any more or less sure about what the team really plans to do than what has been speculated for months. At best it sounds like Cho would like to trade vets for picks, but because the team is so depleted he can't trade Miller, Camby or Joel without getting a one-for-one position replacement ... which makes trades somewhat unlikely (or least less likely).

Thanks . . appreciate that (would rep but my computer format doesn't let me)

Little tidbit I found I'll put in this thread:

You don't think about leaving anymore? Rudy Fernandez: I'm feeling real good here in Portland and I don't want to think about any trade. If everything continues like this maybe I would want to be here for a lot of years. I've feel that I'm blessed and now I'm more mature. The way the summer went... that made me open my eyes and realize that I'm playing in the best league in the world and I want to cherish the moment, enjoy the NBA. And I now that the NBA is a roller coaster, but I feel it's the best year after coming here.

 

[hasoos]

Thanks . . appreciate that (would rep but my computer format doesn't let me)

Little tidbit I found I'll put in this thread:

You don't think about leaving anymore? Rudy Fernandez: I'm feeling real good here in Portland and I don't want to think about any trade. If everything continues like this maybe I would want to be here for a lot of years. I've feel that I'm blessed and now I'm more mature. The way the summer went... that made me open my eyes and realize that I'm playing in the best league in the world and I want to cherish the moment, enjoy the NBA. And I now that the NBA is a roller coaster, but I feel it's the best year after coming here.

It sure would be nice if feeling good about the NBA would translate to hitting an open shot every once in a while...

 

[RoyToy]

Sure everyone has bias, but it certainly weakens your position if you come off as an apologist or fanboy. Looking at his avatar & reading his past posts suggests he has a man-crush on KP or is being very tongue-in-cheek about it...

Look at RoyToy's post back on June 28th


So it was an okay team until Cho took over & didn't trade it away?

Reading failure on your part.

That had nothing to do with how good or bad that lineup would be. I was clearly commenting on the balance of the roster. There's a difference.

Nice try, though.

Even if I was commenting on how good or bad the team would be it wouldn't matter. I obviously don't know what the condition of the players are unless it's made public. Cho, however, knew way before the season started what he had his players. He failed to act on it.

 

[MIXUM]

After listening to Quick this morning I didn't come away any more or less sure about what the team really plans to do than what has been speculated for months. At best it sounds like Cho would like to trade vets for picks, but because the team is so depleted he can't trade Miller, Camby or Joel without getting a one-for-one position replacement ... which makes trades somewhat unlikely (or least less likely).

no shit... what i have said for 3 months. welcome to the party

 

[Nikolokolus]

no shit... what i have said for 3 months. welcome to the party

So you've been saying for three months that Jason Quick would make some guesses about what Cho may or may not do at the trade deadline? I'm confused ...



(and this doesn't feel much like a party.)

 

[blazerboy30]

I'm sure no one else in the league knows that Oden has suffered two season ending injuries. I'm also sure it didn't take him more then 15 minutes of reading up on Roy to figure out Roy has had two surgeries on each knee, all meniscus related.

Link? Like I said before, please tell us EXACTLY when Cho knew about the future of their injuries when he was hired and made his statements.

Keep playing dumb, though.

You mean, keep NOT making assumptions and convincing myself that they are true?

 

[RoyToy]

Link? Like I said before, please tell us EXACTLY when Cho knew about the future of their injuries when he was hired and made his statements.

I already answered that part. You chose to ignore it. Your problem.

If you think it took Cho more then a couple days to learn about two most important players on the roster then I don't know what to tell you.

You mean, keep NOT making assumptions and convincing myself that they are true?

It's called a very likely scenario.

Keep playing dumb.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Please tell us... what exactly did Cho know about Roy and Oden's long-term health when he was hired?

The short answer: what has changed about Roy's knees since his last operation in the spring? You are suggesting that either the Dr was too incompetent to look at the knee and realize that there was permanent damage, or he didn't think to mention it to the Blazers FO.

 

[blazerboy30]

The short answer: what has changed about Roy's knees since his last operation in the spring? You are suggesting that either the Dr was too incompetent to look at the knee and realize that there was permanent damage, or he didn't think to mention it to the Blazers FO.

None of the above. I don't know what happened and neither do you or RoyToy. Should the Blazers FO be directed to yourself or RoyToy for further questions regarding the future injuries of their players?

 

[blazerboy30]

I already answered that part. You chose to ignore it. Your problem.

If you think it took Cho more then a couple days to learn about two most important players on the roster then I don't know what to tell you.

No, you didn't. You made an assumption and then convinced yourself it was a fact. Just because Oden had two previous injuries doesn't mean he would have future injuries. Nobody absolutely knew what would happen, and if you think you knew, then you're out of touch with reality.

It's called a very likely scenario.

Ok Dr. RoyToy. What else can you tell us about Oden's injuries and how many more he will have by the time he is 28?

Keep playing dumb.

I'm being realistic. You're jumping to conclusions and saying people are being dumb because they don't jump to the same conclusions.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I don't know what Dr. RoyToy can say about Oden's future injuries, but even without D.O. in front of my name I can tell you that Oden's got one leg significantly longer than the other, has had hip surgery as an adolecent, three significant knee surgeries, he's 7' tall, 300+ lbs. and walks with a "funny" gait. So the question isn't really how many injuries he'll have in the future, but how likely is it that there will be more significant injuries if he keeps playing NBA basketball. I'd say that chance is quite high given his physiology and the pattern of injury that he has displayed so far.

 

[blazerboy30]

I don't know what Dr. RoyToy can say about Oden's future injuries, but even without D.O. in front of my name I can tell you that Oden's got one leg significantly longer than the other, has had hip surgery as an adolecent, three significant knee surgeries, he's 7' tall, 300+ lbs. and walks with a "funny" gait. So the question isn't really how many injuries he'll have in the future, but how likely is it that there will be more significant injuries if he keeps playing NBA basketball. I'd say that chance is quite high given his physiology and the pattern of injury that he has displayed so far.

So how much should we have offered him for a new contract? Did Cho make the right decision to not extend him? Should we not offer a QO?

 

[RoyToy]

No, you didn't. You made an assumption and then convinced yourself it was a fact. Just because Oden had two previous injuries doesn't mean he would have future injuries. Nobody absolutely knew what would happen, and if you think you knew, then you're out of touch with reality.



Ok Dr. RoyToy. What else can you tell us about Oden's injuries and how many more he will have by the time he is 28?



I'm being realistic. You're jumping to conclusions and saying people are being dumb because they don't jump to the same conclusions.

First of all, we're talking about Roy and Oden, with both coming into the season with their previous season being ended by injury(Roy shouldn't have returned).

Now, add in the fact that Roy's surgery reportedly left him with no meniscus in either knee and that Oden wasn't even on any kind of time table to return(after an initial recovery time of 4 months) and yes, I think it's safe to say there's a big fucking problem with relying on them to return and carry this team. Roy having no meniscus is a huge fucking red flag that he'll have future problems and the fact that Oden didn't even come close to meeting the 4 month time table for his return and that when he would return was a huge question mark tells me the chances he stays healthy is a coin flip at best.

Roy with no meniscus in either knee? Oden way off schedule, return date unknown? HMMMMMM.

There were plenty of red flags that were ignored. To say there was no way the team could have seen this coming makes me laugh. That's one of the funniest things I've ever heard.

 

[e_blazer]

There were plenty of red flags that were ignored. To say there was no way the team could have seen this coming makes me laugh. That's one of the funniest things I've ever heard.

I think you way overstate the case about what was known and when, but let's acknowledge that you're correct that there were red flags. The real question is what could Cho have done about those red flags once he got the GM job? Everybody in the NBA knew about Oden's injury history and about Brandon's lack of meniscus. Do you really think that the market would have been high for either one absent proof that they could perform? Do you think that Cho could have gotten a franchise level player in return for either one? And trading guys with the potential of either of these players for journey-level guys would have achieved exactly what? Cho inherited what has turned out to be an injury-plagued roster. It's going to take time to sort it out.

 

[oldmangrouch]

None of the above. I don't know what happened and neither do you or RoyToy. Should the Blazers FO be directed to yourself or RoyToy for further questions regarding the future injuries of their players?

Don't be disingenious. Your constant mantra that nothing is wrong and nobody is ever responsible is very tiresome.

 

[blazerboy30]

First of all, we're talking about Roy and Oden, with both coming into the season with their previous season being ended by injury(Roy shouldn't have returned).

Now, add in the fact that Roy's surgery reportedly left him with no meniscus in either knee and that Oden wasn't even on any kind of time table to return(after an initial recovery time of 4 months) and yes, I think it's safe to say there's a big fucking problem with relying on them to return and carry this team. Roy having no meniscus is a huge fucking red flag that he'll have future problems and the fact that Oden didn't even come close to meeting the 4 month time table for his return and that when he would return was a huge question mark tells me the chances he stays healthy is a coin flip at best.

Roy with no meniscus in either knee? Oden way off schedule, return date unknown? HMMMMMM.

There were plenty of red flags that were ignored. To say there was no way the team could have seen this coming makes me laugh. That's one of the funniest things I've ever heard.

Really? You must have a very boring, depressing life.

Anyway, it isn't about being able to say for sure, even though you claim it is so obvious. It is about probabilities, and I certainly don't have any idea about the probability of Oden being healthy by the time he is 24.

 

[RoyToy]

I think you way overstate the case about what was known and when, but let's acknowledge that you're correct that there were red flags. The real question is what could Cho have done about those red flags once he got the GM job? Everybody in the NBA knew about Oden's injury history and about Brandon's lack of meniscus. Do you really think that the market would have been high for either one absent proof that they could perform? Do you think that Cho could have gotten a franchise level player in return for either one? And trading guys with the potential of either of these players for journey-level guys would have achieved exactly what? Cho inherited what has turned out to be an injury-plagued roster. It's going to take time to sort it out.

I don't think I'm overstating it at all. If you have no meniscus in your knees it doesn't take a genius to figure out you're going to have problems. Oden? Ha. Before he went down the team didn't even know when he would return. Stop acting like the red flags weren't right in front of Cho's face. They were there. The fact that Cho traded away Bayless just reassures my opinion that he was at least counting on Roy to be fine.

What Cho could or couldn't have got isn't the point. Idk what was available. What I do know is Cho sat on his ass for 3 months doing nothing before the season started running cool evaluations when he should have been looking to make moves then.

 

[RoyToy]

Really? You must have a very boring, depressing life.

LOL!

Anyway, it isn't about being able to say for sure, even though you claim it is so obvious. It is about probabilities, and I certainly don't have any idea about the probability of Oden being healthy by the time he is 24.

Keep ignoring the obvious red flag, just like the Blazers.

Get a clue.

 

[Nikolokolus]

So how much should we have offered him for a new contract? Did Cho make the right decision to not extend him? Should we not offer a QO?

I have a feeling that what the Blazers were willing to offer and what Oden and his camp would be willing to accept weren't all that close together so there's no point in guessing what they 'should' have offered. As for the extension Cho was smart not to offer it and bid against himself and the QO probably ins't a horrible gamble to take on him.

 

[RoyToy]

Greg Oden - 4 month recovery time - not met

Return for the start of the season - nope

Return date - unknown

How could Greg have suffered another MF injury! There were absolutely no signs that this would happen....AGAIN!

 

[oldmangrouch]

It's one thing to argue that Cho knew the Blazers were on thin ice, but that his hands were tied. That scenario is entirely possible.

It is something else to argue that Cho, or the FO in general, were ignorant of the problems.

 

[hasoos]

It doesn't matter for Cho. He is damned for anything but success at this point. Some people would damn him for making another trade. Some people would damn him for not making another trade. Some people would damn him for trading a veteran player now. Some people would damn him for getting to end of season and letting contracts expire. Basically, he will be condemned by the fans for anything but success. Welcome to being an NBA GM.

 

[blazerboy30]

Don't be disingenious. Your constant mantra that nothing is wrong and nobody is ever responsible is very tiresome.

You're a silly guy. Link to some posts where I claim "nothing is wrong" or "nobody is ever responsible", or GTFO.

 

[oldmangrouch]

You're a silly guy. Link to some posts where I claim "nothing is wrong" or "nobody is ever responsible", or GTFO.

Better yet, why don't you show a link where somebody was critical of a player, coach, team Dr, or anybody else associated with the team, and you actually *agreed* with them, rather than being nasty about it.

The blunt truth is, the majority of your posts are shots at other posters.....posters who don't toe the party line.

BTW, I notice you never did answer the question: what changed with Roy's knee between the end of last season and the beginning of this season?

 

[blazerboy30]

Better yet, why don't you show a link where somebody was critical of a player, coach, team Dr, or anybody else associated with the team, and you actually *agreed* with them, rather than being nasty about it.

Better yet... you made a claim, you're responsible for backing it up.

The blunt truth is, the majority of your posts are shots at other posters.....posters who don't toe the party line.

Yet, you can't provide links. Well, I'm convinced! I don't care if you "toe the party line", I just expect people to be able to back up their claims. That isn't too much to ask.

BTW, I notice you never did answer the question: what changed with Roy's knee between the end of last season and the beginning of this season?

You mean other than the surgery he had???

 

[e_blazer]

I don't think I'm overstating it at all. If you have no meniscus in your knees it doesn't take a genius to figure out you're going to have problems. Oden? Ha. Before he went down the team didn't even know when he would return. Stop acting like the red flags weren't right in front of Cho's face. They were there. The fact that Cho traded away Bayless just reassures my opinion that he was at least counting on Roy to be fine.

What Cho could or couldn't have got isn't the point. Idk what was available. What I do know is Cho sat on his ass for 3 months doing nothing before the season started running cool evaluations when he should have been looking to make moves then.

Roy hasn't had meniscus in one knee for his entire career. While it's no surprise that his knees aren't going to let him have a long career, nobody, Roy included, knew that he was going to have the quick deterioration that's caused him major problems he's had this season. As for Oden, while he wasn't responding as quickly as expected, nobody knew he needed microfracture and would be out for the season until the end of November. You seem to have some sort of odd need to blame somebody for this situation, but copping out and saying you don't know what was available to Cho, yet blaming him for not doing something when you don't even know if there was something worthwhile to be done is, IMHO, absurd.

 

[blazerboy30]

Roy hasn't had meniscus in one knee for his entire career. While it's no surprise that his knees aren't going to let him have a long career, nobody, Roy included, knew that he was going to have the quick deterioration that's caused him major problems he's had this season. As for Oden, while he wasn't responding as quickly as expected, nobody knew he needed microfracture and would be out for the season until the end of November. You seem to have some sort of odd need to blame somebody for this situation, but copping out and saying you don't know what was available to Cho, yet blaming him for not doing something when you don't even know if there was something worthwhile to be done is, IMHO, absurd.

Good post. You said it better than I did.

 

[tester551]

My bet is they notified Marks that he will be cut in favor of C. Johnson. They have a few more days before this will need to happen though... Hang on for the "Wild Ride".