MVP Race- According To The Mouth Breathers....

[KeepOnRollin]

I would have voted for LeBron and expected Harden to win instead. Now I expect Westbrook to eek it out though due to the last stamp he put on in the DEN game.

 

[THE HCP]

I like and respect triple-doubles, but I'm also interested in double digit turnovers: Russ has 5 this season.

J. Harden: 5
K. Leonard: 0

If I'm voting, I'm voting for Leonard.

This logic doesn't fly FAMS. Leonard doesn't have the ball in his hands NEARLY as much as Russ. Forever the dominant PGs have led the league or been near the top. Iverson, Kidd and Nash always had high numbers of TOs. When your job is to control the offense and set up other people, turnovers happen.

 

[THE HCP]

Why do you care so much? Seriously? Seems really weird. You've been making multiple posts on this for days. Why?

BNM

Because The HCP is the Russell Westbrook of this forum. Most hated, but most dominate person here. You love to hate us without quality reasons.

 

[THE HCP]

Honestly I just hate when people let their emotions block common sense is all. That happens a lot around here.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Honestly I just hate when people let their emotions block common sense is all. That happens a lot around here.

Imagine that, fans getting emotional and behaving irrationally. What is the world coming to?

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Because The HCP is the Russell Westbrook of this forum. Most hated, but most dominate person here. You love to hate us without quality reasons.

You nailed that one. Like Russ, you're a high volume, inefficient chucker. One look at your post:like ratio reminds me a lot of Westbrook's shooting percentages and turnover rate.

BNM

 

[tlongII]

Because The HCP is the Russell Westbrook of this forum. Most hated, but most dominate person here. You love to hate us without quality reasons.

The correct use of the word is "dominant", not "dominate".

 

[H.C.]

This logic doesn't fly FAMS. Leonard doesn't have the ball in his hands NEARLY as much as Russ. Forever the dominant PGs have led the league or been near the top. Iverson, Kidd and Nash always had high numbers of TOs. When your job is to control the offense and set up other people, turnovers happen.

Please don't compare Kidd/Nash to Westbrook.
Those two never averaged even close to 6 turnovers a game. Kidd's worst was 4 his second season, while Nash was 3.8.
AI was always knocked for turnovers and defense, I would know he was my fav player growing up.
Stop acting like Westbrick shouldn't have the same knock because he averaged a triple double this year.

LeBron James is the real MVP of the league. He'll just have to settle for a finals MVP. Something Westbrick has zero chance at. And if you were to replace LBJ with Westbrick, he still wouldn't have a chance at finals MVP.

 

[Boob-No-More]

The correct use of the word is "dominant", not "dominate".

Give him a break Mr. Grammar Nazi. It was a typo. He clearly meant to type dominated and left off the "d".

BNM

 

[THE HCP]

You nailed that one. Like Russ, you're a high volume, inefficient chucker. One look at your post:like ratio reminds me a lot of Westbrook's shooting percentages and turnover rate.

BNM

Now you should know that we didn't have LIKES until just recently. So you my friend are not only STILL a virgin, but you are incorrect.

 

[BlazerWookee]

When Lillard was playing trash for stretches of games Lillard fan boys would say:

"Teams zero in on him that's why!"

"Trash," lol.


Transparent phony.

 

[tlongII]

Give him a break Mr. Grammar Nazi. It was a typo. He clearly meant to type dominated and left off the "d".

BNM

I see what you did there. Bravo.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Now you should know that we didn't have LIKES until just recently.

Yep, and yet several of us who have been posting here just as long as you have, have a lot more likes with a lot fewer posts. Face it, you're a high volume, low quality poster. It's OK. For someone like you, it's best to throw as much shit as possible at the wall in the hope that something sticks.

So you my friend are not only STILL a virgin, but you are incorrect.

Your wife disagrees on both counts.

BNM

P.S. Sorry Mrs. HCP. That's two Mrs. HCP jokes in one day. I unusually don't participate in that nonsense, but you have to admit he deserved it.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

This logic doesn't fly FAMS. Leonard doesn't have the ball in his hands NEARLY as much as Russ. Forever the dominant PGs have led the league or been near the top. Iverson, Kidd and Nash always had high numbers of TOs. When your job is to control the offense and set up other people, turnovers happen.

I'm pretty sure that anything that says these guys are awesome counts as logic, to you. But, if "turnovers happen", and yet these guys are still amazing, then surely their assist/turnover is among league leaders, right?

Among qualifiers...

Harden: 50th in the league
Westbrick: 54th in the league

 

[Denny Crane]

He has TWICE as many triple doubles this season alone than Kobe had his ENTIRE career! Think about that for a second.
He has 41 this season with 4 games to go and arguable the "GREATEST PLAYER IN HISTORY" His airless has 29 in his entire career. Think about the significance of that please.

F*ck K*me

 

[Denny Crane]

WB does go pass happy when he is nearing 10 assists, he will pass up open shots for himself or open driving lanes to try and get the assists. Sure you can say i'm wrong on that he is assist hunting and he is doing it for other reasons but you can't deny the rebounding numbers are inflated. Kanter/Adams box out to get him rebounds, not only do they box out and not attempt to get the rebound if WB is in the vicinity. WB also doesn't even contest the shots of the person he is guarding, he positions himself to immediately leave his man to get the rebound by not putting his arms up to even attempt to make the shot harder, He almost never contests a 3p shot. If the argument that WB deserves the MVP because he is averaging a TD then you can't overlook what he is doing to get his rebounds. The reason I threw Ricky Davis in their is his infamous triple double by missing a layup to get his own rebound and get his triple double.
With how close this MVP race is between 4 candidates you'v got to be nit picky and what WB is doing is not as impressive to me as Kawhi or Harden when factoring in team success as well which is important to me when looking at who will win the MVP.
As for what Bill Russell did to get the MVP that season it was 14.4p 24 rebounds and 5 assists and god knows how many blocks per game. There were 3 players that year who averaged 20 rebounds that year as well.

This speaks to Big O's averaging a triple double. He grabbed 10+ rebounds at a time when guys averaged 20+ and had games of 40+. Teams had PFs that were 6'7", and centers who were 6'7" (Unseld) and 6'9" (Cowens). A much faster pace back then, too. His stats didn't translate into victories, and nobody heard of or cared about triple doubles.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Forever the dominant PGs have led the league or been near the top. Iverson, Kidd and Nash always had high numbers of TOs. When your job is to control the offense and set up other people, turnovers happen.

Near the top of the league, yes. Completely shattering the all time TOV record like Barry Bonds jacked up on steroids shattering the HR record, not so much. I mean look at these numbers:

James Harden - 2016-17 = 455 TOV (and counting)
Russell Westbrook - 2015-16 = 435 TOV (and counting)
Artis Gilmore - 1977-78 = 366 TOV (previous NBA record until Westbrook and Harden came along and CRUSHED it).
Allen Iverson - 2004-05 = 344 TOV (career high)
Jason Kidd - 1995-96 = 328 TOV (career high and only season with > 300 TOVs)
Steve Nash - 2007-08 = 295 TOV (career high, never had => 300 TOVs in a season in his 18-year NBA career).

Yes, Westbrook (and Harden) are putting up video game like numbers, both good and bad. But all the media (and the HCP) want to talk about are triple doubles. They find it convenient to ignore record TOV, record USG% and poor shooting percentages.

But that's OK. Let Westbrook and Harden have the regular season accolades, because neither one of them are winning squat in the post season. In fact, if not for the fact that they will play each other in the first round, I'd be willing to bet neither of them would make it past the first round. Good TEAMS with adequate time to prepare will beat stat padding ballhogs and gimmick offenses every time.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

This speaks to Big O's averaging a triple double. He grabbed 10+ rebounds at a time when guys averaged 20+ and had games of 40+. Teams had PFs that were 6'7", and centers who were 6'7" (Unseld) and 6'9" (Cowens). A much faster pace back then, too. His stats didn't translate into victories, and nobody heard of or cared about triple doubles.

Neither Wes Unseld nor Dave Cowens were in the NBA in 1961-62 the year Oscar Robertson averaged a triple double. Cowens was 13 at the time. So, I doubt if he was stealing very many rebounds from Oscar.

One thing people forget is that there were only 8 teams back then. So, while there weren't a lot of 7-footers, over half the teams in the league had a starting center that was a future Hall of Famer. With only 8 teams the pool of talented big men wasn't nearly as diluted as it is now. Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain were 6'10" and 7'1" and both athletic freaks. That's 25% of the starting centers in the league right there. There aren't two better starting centers in the NBA right now, let alone 7.5 better (25% of 30).

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

He has 41 this season with 4 games to go and arguable the "GREATEST PLAYER IN HISTORY" His airless has 29 in his entire career. Think about the significance of that please.

Back when Michael Jordan played, greatness wasn't measured in triple doubles. It was measured in rings.

Think about this:

Michael: 6
Russ: 0

And before you say winning championships doesn't matter, it's all about your teammates. Russ had Kevin Durant, four time scoring champion and former league MVP as a teammate for 8 seasons, and still couldn't win a ring. And guess what, it wasn't KD that was holding Russ back. It was the other way around. Westbrook also had Kevin Durant AND James Harden as teammates for 3 seasons. Again zero rings. When it comes to the "teammates argument", Westbrook had better teammates than Jordan ever did, and still couldn't win shit.

BNM

 

[Denny Crane]

Neither Wes Unseld nor Dave Cowens were in the NBA in 1961-62 the year Oscar Robertson averaged a triple double. Cowens was 13 at the time. So, I doubt if he was stealing very many rebounds from Oscar.

One thing people forget is that there were only 8 teams back then. So, while there weren't a lot of 7-footers, over half the teams in the league had a starting center that was a future Hall of Famer. With only 8 teams the pool of talented big men wasn't nearly as diluted as it is now. Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain were 6'10" and 7'1" and both athletic freaks. That's 25% of the starting centers in the league right there. There aren't two better starting centers in the NBA right now, let alone 7.5 better (25% of 30).

BNM

Unseld and Cowens still were small at the position, a trend that didn't change until much later.

Robertson's starting C was 6'8" Wayne Embry - smaller and lighter than Ed Davis, Ezili, Vonleh, Leonard, and Nurkic; a 20lb heavier Evan Turner. PF Bob Boozer was 6'8" / 215 lbs - about the size of our SFs. The Knicks' starting PF was 6'5" and geabbed 13+ rebounds, good for 6th best.

The players were smaller. You cited 2 exceptions who played like adults against children.

Robertson was paid so little, he worked as a construction worker in the offseason. As did all the players. Being an athletic freak does wonders against construction workers and insurance salesmen.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Unseld and Cowens still were small at the position, a trend that didn't change until much later.

Robertson's starting C was 6'8" Wayne Embry - smaller and lighter than Ed Davis, Ezili, Vonleh, Leonard, and Nurkic; a 20lb heavier Evan Turner. PF Bob Boozer was 6'8" / 215 lbs - about the size of our SGs. The Knicks' starting PF was 6'5" and geabbed 13+ rebounds, good for 6th best.

The players were smaller. You cited 2 exceptions who played like adults against children.

The trend for smaller centers starter LATER, after the league started expanding. Again read what I wrote, Chamberlain and Russell represented 25% of the starting centers in the NBA in the 1961-62 season, and both were in their primes. They finished first and second in MVP voting that year. Name two centers that will even be in the conversation for MVP this year. You can call them "exceptions" all you want, but the fact is when Oscar averaged a triple double, 25% of the leagues centers then were way better than 25% of the staring centers today.

And rebounding isn't just about height. Dennis Rodman and Ben Wallace were two of the greatest rebounders ever and they were only 6'8". Rodman and Barkley (listed at 6'6", actual height 6' 4.5") played at a time when the league was dominated by 7' centers, yet both managed to league the league in rebounding.

BNM

 

[rasheedfan2005]

1. damina lillard
2. nurkic
3. all those fake ass wannabe mother fuckers

 

[H.C.]

I'd probably vote for LeBron James. Even if Irving is an All-Star and Love is a former All-Star, that team sucks whenever James doesn't play. He's having another phenomenal statistical year and, get this, he plays really good defense. Westbrook and Harden are both painfully deficient at defense.

Do you think the Cavs would be a .500 team without LBJ?
Personally I think they'd struggle to win 30 games.

 

[Denny Crane]

The trend for smaller centers starter LATER, after the league started expanding. Again read what I wrote, Chamberlain and Russell represented 25% of the starting centers in the NBA in the 1961-62 season, and both were in their primes. You can call them "exceptions" all you want, but the fact is when Oscar averaged a triple double, 25% of the leagues centers then were way better than 25% of the staring centers today.

And rebounding isn't just about height. Dennis Rodman and Ben Wallace were two of the greatest rebounders ever and they were only 6'8".

BNM

To put the rebounding difference of the times in perspective, there were 8 teams and 14 players grabbed 10+ boards. Almost 2 10 RPG guys per team (6 teams had 2 while 2 teams had a second guy with 9.5). The equivalent in today's terms would mean ~50 guys grabbing 10/game. This season, there 12, or not even enough for one per half the teams.

Every player of all heights and positions grabbed more rebounds per game back then, and significantly.

Robertson's 10 per game were much easier to come by than Westbrook's. Since RPG are one of the three in triple double, it's a big deal.

In 1988-89, Jordan averaged 32.5/8/8 as a full time SG, part time PG. Full time at PG, he probably gets average a triple double. Playing PG, he had a career worst for TO.

Magic averaged 18.6 / 9.6 / 9.5 and led the league in steals. He had more TO than Jordan, and had as many as 4.6 per game in his worst season.


Like Jordan, Westbrook is leading the league in scoring. I don't care if he grabs every rebound from his teammates (he doesn't), he's 6'3" and has to grab the rebounds over opponents. He also gets 1.7 SPG and has a DRtg of 104. He certainly fills up the scoresheet.

He's supposed to be such a disruptive individual that OKC losing KD should mean missing the playoffs. Yet they're currently sitting with 10th best record. He has no teammate of CJ's caliber, nor anyone you'd say made a big two on OKC.

Harden is amazing at offense, but one of the worst defenders in league history. Yet his teams consistently have very good to excellent records, no matter the talent around him. For his poor defense alone, I wouldn't pick him as MVP.

The real MVP is probably on GSW or the Cavs. Nobody but LeBron really sticks out in the stats.

I see Westbrook getting the MVP, no matter how anyone can rationalize against it.

 

[Boob-No-More]

To put the rebounding difference of the times in perspective, there were 8 teams and 14 players grabbed 10+ boards. Almost 2 10 RPG guys per team (6 teams had 2 while 2 teams had a second guy with 9.5). The equivalent in today's terms would mean ~50 guys grabbing 10/game. This season, there 12, or not even enough for one per half the teams.

Every player of all heights and positions grabbed more rebounds per game back then, and significantly.

Robertson's 10 per game were much easier to come by than Westbrook's. Since RPG are one of the three in triple double, it's a big deal.

In 1988-89, Jordan averaged 32.5/8/8 as a full time SG, part time PG. Full time at PG, he probably gets average a triple double. Playing PG, he had a career worst for TO.

Magic averaged 18.6 / 9.6 / 9.5 and led the league in steals. He had more TO than Jordan, and had as many as 4.6 per game in his worst season.


Like Jordan, Westbrook is leading the league in scoring. I don't care if he grabs every rebound from his teammates (he doesn't), he's 6'3" and has to grab the rebounds over opponents. He also gets 1.7 SPG and has a DRtg of 104. He certainly fills up the scoresheet.

He's supposed to be such a disruptive individual that OKC losing KD should mean missing the playoffs. Yet they're currently sitting with 10th best record. He has no teammate of CJ's caliber, nor anyone you'd say made a big two on OKC.

Harden is amazing at offense, but one of the worst defenders in league history. Yet his teams consistently have very good to excellent records, no matter the talent around him. For his poor defense alone, I wouldn't pick him as MVP.

The real MVP is probably on GSW or the Cavs. Nobody but LeBron really sticks out in the stats.

I see Westbrook getting the MVP, no matter how anyone can rationalize against it.

It's been well documented that Westbrook is completely abandoning his man on defense to hunt uncontested rebounds. It's also been well documented that his teammates are simply clearing out opponents so Russ can grab more boards. It's also documented that OKC has gone from the best rebounding team in the history of the NBA last year, to barely above league average this year, in spite of Westbrook's "historic" rebounding prowess.

He's first in the league in uncontested rebounds at 7.9. That means over 75% of his rebounds are uncontested. Of those 7.0 are uncontested rebounds on shots from 13+ feet. How can that be? Easy, Westbrook is dead last in the league at contesting 3-point FGs. DeAndre Jordan has contested more 3FGs that Russell Westbrook. He's leaving his man wide open on the perimeter to hunt rebounds:

"His opp. +6.9% over expected FG% is dead last in the NBA among guards. The only other players over 4.5% are Sean Kilpatrick, Kyle Korver, and Emmanuel Mudiay."

Westbrook only gets 10+ REG/G because he's a shameless stat whore who leaves his man open on the perimeter to hunt rebounds while his teammates defer to him. Taj Gibson was recently criticized for "stealing" rebounds from Westbrook. Gibson assumed it was his job to grab rebounds, which it's always been his entire career. In OKC his TRB% has dropped to a nearly Bargnani-like 11.4%, by far the lowest of his career as his primary job is no longer to grab rebounds, it's to create rebounding opportunities for his stat padding PG.

But yeah, Westbrook will win the MVP. Gaudy numbers, more than anything else, impress MVP voters. They don't care how Westbrook gets the numbers, they just see the numbers and cast their votes.

And that's fine, let Westbrook have his MVP. It's possible for a stat whore to win the MVP, but he won't win a championship - EVER. He couldn't win one with Durant and Harden as teammates. He's certainly not winning one without them.

BNM