Nassir Little

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wizenheimer said:
standing reach?

nobody rebounds or shoots while standing except maybe Meyers or guys on the foul line
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You're joking right? This whole discussion has been about you thinking that Nas isn't tall enough which last time I checked is measured while someone is standing. So I was just making the point that standing reach is a much better measurement when talking about if a player has the height to be effective in a position. As far as when he's not standing Nas has a 38.5 inch vertical which is pretty damn phenomenal. So combine some of these things, Nas has a wingspan of over seven feet and great lateral quickness meaning he has great tools to be a wing defender horizontally, then he has an 8'9" standing reach and a 38.5 inch vertical (11'11.5" of verticality) meaning he has amazing tools to be a wing defender vertically.
 
wizenheimer said:
wingspan has some value but I think a lot of people really overrate that value. It has more value if the wingspan is coupled with quick hands in passing lanes. And wingspan might compensate, a little, for a speed mismatch. But, IMO, that value just about vanishes when you're 6'5 going against 6'9.
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You dont play basketball with the top of your head though, so if you're trying to quantify size in relation to its impact on basketball, using standing reach is much better than using height.
 
blazerkor said:
You're joking right? This whole discussion has been about you thinking that Nas isn't tall enough which last time I checked is measured while someone is standing. So I was just making the point that standing reach is a much better measurement when talking about if a player has the height to be effective in a position. As far as when he's not standing Nas has a 38.5 inch vertical which is pretty damn phenomenal. So combine some of these things, Nas has a wingspan of over seven feet and great lateral quickness meaning he has great tools to be a wing defender horizontally, then he has an 8'9" standing reach and a 38.5 inch vertical (11'11.5" of verticality) meaning he has amazing tools to be a wing defender vertically.
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Apparently you catch rebounds and contest shots with the top of your head, not with outstretched arms...
 
This is probably a dumb question, but is there a reliable test for how quickly a player can jump? We've all seen big guys who take so long to gather themselves that they lose the ball to smaller, more explosive players.
 
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That was rare for e-blazer to go out on a limb like that. I made him retreat to his usual hidden veil of Buddha-like subtlety.
 
wizenheimer said:
he showed a little promise in 4 or 5 games later in the non-bubble season, but not enough for me to say "yeah, he's going to be a good player"

I wish Portland would have a young perimeter showing some promise who wasn't undersized. Little was only 6'4.5 at the pre-draft and that's just .25 inches taller than Trent
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The Thunders SGA played SF. The Rockets played PJ Tucker at Center. Its not 2005, Trent and Little are plenty big.enough to play forward.

Basketball is played with your hands. It doesnt matter where his head is, as others have posted his wingspan is big.
 
wizenheimer said:
can we at least agree that wingspan means very little on the offensive end?
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I can't agree with that, no. Not only does wingspan (with proper timing) helpful in offensive rebounding and tracking down errant passes or loose balls, just watch players like Ja Morant or prospect Kira Lewis' ability to extend as they attack the basket and get good shots past decent defense. It might not as be evident as it is on defense, but it's an asset.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Little has a longer wingspan than Zach Collins.....for example
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He also has better hands. Swear to god, Zach walks around with gloves made out of lard sometimes.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Little has a longer wingspan than Zach Collins.....for example
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And Paul George apparently (from when he was drafted anyway, I believe he grew).

Nas is at 7'1.25.

PG is at 6'11.
Kawhi is 7'3
Luka is 7'
Covington is 7'2
Harden is 6'11
Giannis was 7'3 when drafted, and obviously grew.
Durant is at 7'5, which is insane.
Lebron listed only at 7'
Harkless at 7'2

Little's height was a bit low, but the winspan more than makes up for it. Nas is strong and has agile feet. He has all the tools to be a great defender. Just needs the right coaching/training to make the most of his physical skills.

Actually looking through some of the combine stats, Nas compares really favorably to Kawhi physically, outside of Leonard's ridiculous hand size.

https://stats.nba.com/draft/combine-anthro
 
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illmatic99 said:
And Paul George apparently (from when he was drafted anyway, I believe he grew).

Nas is at 7'1.25.

PG is at 6'11.
Kawhi is 7'3
Luka is 7'
Covington is 7'2
Harden is 6'11
Giannis was 7'3 when drafted, and obviously grew.
Durant is at 7'5, which is insane.
Lebron listed only at 7'
Harkless at 7'2

Little's height was a bit low, but the winspan more than makes up for it. Nas is strong and has agile feet. He has all the tools to be a great defender. Just needs the right coaching/training to make the most of his physical skills.

Actually looking through some of the combine stats, Nas compares really favorably to Kawhi physically, outside of Leonard's ridiculous hand size.

https://stats.nba.com/draft/combine-anthro
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Thanks for posting. Yes it always seemed to me NAS had plenty of size to play PF
 
The key for a possibly undersized PF is having enough rebounding and defense in the frontcourt. It appears NAS provides that.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
They are basically the same position in modern basketball. Most players on that list can play both.

NAS is a forward. He can play SF and PF. He wouldn't play SG as he doesn't have those skills.
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ok then....the grass is getting real tall in this thread. PF morphs into C as much as it morphs into SF. So, not only will NAS defend AD and Giannis and Adebayo and Porzingis, he'll occasionally go against Jokic and Embiid.

that would be the situation if he's a starter

WesleyMatthews said:
The key for a possibly undersized PF is having enough rebounding and defense in the frontcourt. It appears NAS provides that.
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?...how can you tell though?

he had a 9.9% rebounding rate this season. That was lower than Tolliver and Hezonja had an 11% rate. Portland was severely outrebounded when those two were on the floor, especially when Tolliver was PF. Portland had a 45.2% rebound rate when Tolliver was PF. How bad is that? Well, Washington had the worst rebound rate in the league and they were at 47.8%
 
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wizenheimer said:
so then, you've dialed in the defensive side of things and the vast majority of defense is not played by extended fingers, it's played with positioning, anticipation, reaction, and footwork. And yes, some of it is simply due to mass.

I haven't seen enough of Little to know what kind of a player he's going to be. He's done next to nothing so far. All I was saying is with a 6'2 PG and a 6'2 SG (with a poor wingspan), the thought of a SF under 6'5 isn't too exciting.
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None of that has to do with height, either, correct?
 
wizenheimer said:
ok then....the grass is getting real tall in this thread. PF morphs into C as much as it morphs into SF. So, not only will NAS defend AD and Giannis and Adebayo and Porzingis, he'll occasionally go against Jokic and Embiid.

that would be the situation if he's a starter
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NAS is a second year player hoping to get backup minutes next year. He would take Hezonja and Tolliver minutes. He would be fine against opposing backup PF; if he is a legit rotational player. He could also play some at SF. He would never play at SG.

Obviously he would not matchup against opposing starting centers. That is Nurk or Collins or whoever else the 3rd big is.

Maybe there is a particular matchup or two such as Davis that NAS wouldn't play much PF. The Blazers could set a different rotation for those rare games if that is the case.

However there are many more matchups like Miami or Boston where you need a smaller quicker defender such as NAS as opposed to two tall PF/C on the court at once. I swear half this board is still set on positions as though its the 1980s
 
RR7 said:
None of that has to do with height, either, correct?
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that's true

but again, my concern wasn't as much Little at SF, as it was the potential trio of Dame, CJ, and Little at the three perimeter positions. Even hedging a total 1.25" in Portland's favor, that's averaging 6'3 for those 3 perimeter positions. I don't care what Little's wingspan is, that is really small
 
As I said NAS plays either forward spot. Is Trent or Ariza or Hood or traded Middleton playing SF? Then he plays PF.

Is Collins or Melo or traded LMA playing PF? Then NAS plays SF.

Its about making a 5 man unit that has the right balance of D, rebounding, shooting, playmaking at once for the particular situation.
 
wizenheimer said:
that's true

but again, my concern wasn't as much Little at SF, as it was the potential trio of Dame, CJ, and Little at the three perimeter positions. Even hedging a total 1.25" in Portland's favor, that's averaging 6'3 for those 3 perimeter positions. I don't care what Little's wingspan is, that is really small
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We can go round and round about how the position isn't played with the top of your head, but I don't see it going anywhere.
Jaylen Brown is only .75" taller, smaller wingspan, similar weight. He plays a lot of SF. Justise Winslow is the same height. PLays a lot of SF. Jae Crowder plays a lot of 3 and 4. Same height. Less wingspan, similar weight. I mean shit, Draymond is only an inch taller. No way he should be a PF/C
 
RR7 said:
We can go round and round about how the position isn't played with the top of your head, but I don't see it going anywhere.
Jaylen Brown is only .75" taller, smaller wingspan, similar weight. He plays a lot of SF. Justise Winslow is the same height. PLays a lot of SF. Jae Crowder plays a lot of 3 and 4. Same height. Less wingspan, similar weight. I mean shit, Draymond is only an inch taller. No way he should be a PF/C
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one more time: the concern I expressed about Little as the starting SF that got everybody riled was the context of Dame/CJ/Little as three starters. That's really small overall

Green is short for a PF, but he's a DPOY-level defender and excellent at running an offense; and he's usually on the floor with only one player smaller than 6'6.

Boston plays a relatively small lineup, but Kemba is Dame's size while everybody else is generally in the 6'6-6'9 range. Smart is a utility player who doesn't have top-of-head height, as you put it, but he's really strong and a great defender

in both those examples, we're talking about a bunch of 2-way players making those lineups work well (and several excellent ball-handlers and facilitators which Portland doesn't have). But at this point, we have no clue if Little can be a two-way player and we already know Dame and CJ aren't. That's what I'm questioning about Little as the starter, but you'd be right in saying that's not so much about Little as it is about the roster construction

Crowder may be a good comp for Little though
 
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