Nate on Miller playing vs LA... questionable if not doubtful

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Nate wouldn't play games like that. He wants to win and would put the best players out there to accomplish this. I know things aren't really going our way right now, but there is no need to always have a scapegoat. Just sick back and enjoy.
 
Nate is the boss. If Miller told Nate to "F himself" in front of the rest of the team then there should be some reprocussions.
 
Does anyone remember the details of Nate and Gary Payton's "dispute" that resulted in GP sitting for several games soon after Nate became coach of the Sonics? I remember reading reports of their problems way back when.
 
Does anyone remember the details of Nate and Gary Payton's "dispute" that resulted in GP sitting for several games soon after Nate became coach of the Sonics? I remember reading reports of their problems way back when.

For the same reasons. Nate was an idiot then, Payton knew it and called him on it, and Nate's been an idiot now and Miller's calling him on it. Management needs to be called on their sh** by the veterans when it's messing with the whole team.
 
What a small world. After Blazer draftee Wally Walker fired George Karl and his gaudy .700+ record, Walker replaced him with his golfing friend Paul Westphal. Payton wanted someone new and so his mentor teammate McMillan replace Westphal after 2 years. After Westphal's Sergioan loose coaching, Payton had a hard time playing in the Natian style. With future Blazer Shawn Kemp gone, Payton tyrranized over his younger teammates, so Walker traded him for Ray Allen.

Several years before that, Nate once took me on. I pissed him off, he started to argue and verbally dress me down, but I did a verbal 360, humored him, and lightened him up. He's a very firm man. I've told it on the ESPN board maybe 4 times over the years. Ask Maris, he's sick of reading the dumb little story.
 
Miller to Charlotte for either Felton or Augustine?
 
Telfair sucked, and Jack was mediocre, but Jack has gone on and done well enough that the Raptors are now considering trading Calderon and keeping him as their starting point.

JJ plays at the same PER (actually lower), and at the same winscore/minute he did in Portland now. JJ did not change - it is just Toronto's perception of Calderon that changed. They have seen that even if a PG does not create as well offensively as he does - but plays some defense and is a leader on the court and off it - they will be better. JJ was berated by many on this forum and Nate was too for playing him - but now, all of a sudden, Toronto playing him and getting about the same (maybe a little less) production out of him is a mark on Nate? Please - JJ's best individual season as a player was under Nate. Calderon is low-turnover version of Sergio - great offensively, not good defensively.

Sergio still doesn't play a lick of defense, but has shown that when allowed to play more uptempo can be very effective on the offen sive end of the court.

Duh. So now Nate was mistaken to not change his system for Sergio's benefit? Sergio is who he is, but even in Sacramento - he is playing less minutes per game than he did here, and he is thriving because he is the 3rg PG in the depth chart and if he is in - he is allowed to run the show. No disrespect to Sergio - but his TOV% is still atrocious, and he gets less minutes in Sacramento than he did here. His entire "improvement" comes from one thing - his 3 point shot is falling this year at a respectable clip and he so far seems to be doing much better shooting from close range. Is it because he fixed his shot? Is it because he is the 3rd PG on the depth chart and plays against garbage defenders? Who knows - but if he was able to shoot at the same clip in Portland, his PER and "breakthrough" would have been exactly the same. I would wait a little longer to see if his shot continues to fall before I call his rebirth a success - and as we have seen, that is the only thing he does better in Sacramento than he did here. He still loses the ball at an alarming rate...

As for Miller, I watched him play plenty of times over the years and his game is legit ... his desirability and lack of suitors had more to do with teams without cap space, and his age.

Legit at what? At putting great numbers but never being on a team that won 50 games or more? Being at 50% win percent over the last 3 years? Of never getting out of the first round in 7 playoffs appearances? Of having his teams win 1.2 games on average per playoff appearance?

I'm just saying that Nate's misuse has caused me to rethink his handling of his point guards in the past, not to say that I think he's categorically mishandled them.

Bah. Steve Blake had his best year under Nate, so did Jarret Jack and so did Sebastian Telfair. Give me a break. Miller is producing the same win% he did in Portland under Nate, as he did in Philly. The problem is not Nate and his handling of Miller - it's your perception of Miller. The Zach Randolph of point-guards.
 
Miller hurt his back when he smashed into a camera guy during the Clippers game. A part of why he didnt play during the 4th qtr of the Memphis game and why he didnt practice yesterday (before the blow out with Nate) was because his back was bothering him.
 
Andalusian: I just said I think it's possible some players have gone on (in some cases) and come closer to reaching their potential (even if that is somewhat limited) than they did while under Nate -- as in going from atrocious to mediocre, or mediocre to pretty good (as in the case of Jack for example)

I've never asserted that Miller is an all-NBA or all-star caliber player, but he's long been a very effective creator and finisher throughout his career, but in this particular system that Nate runs his shooting percentages have tanked, his assist numbers are down, he's a starter in name only, and it's looking more and more like he hasn't exactly been given a fair shake here.

You really seem to be confused here. I'm not saying that any of those guys were the answer or should have started or that I'd even want them back, I'm just saying I'm not so sure Nate's offense allows point guards who cycle through here to flourish ... and Steve Blake having a "career year" as a spot up shooter really isn't the same as him having a career year as a point guard.
 
Several years before that, Nate once took me on. I pissed him off, he started to argue and verbally dress me down, but I did a verbal 360, humored him, and lightened him up. He's a very firm man. I've told it on the ESPN board maybe 4 times over the years. Ask Maris, he's sick of reading the dumb little story.
Screw Maris. ;) I've never heard your dumb little story. Spill it, I'm bored.

:cheers:
 
Andalusian: I just said I think it's possible some players have gone on (in some cases) and come closer to reaching their potential (even if that is somewhat limited) than they did while under Nate -- as in going from atrocious to mediocre, or mediocre to pretty good (as in the case of Jack for example)

Fair enough.

I've never asserted that Miller is an all-NBA or all-star caliber player, but he's long been a very effective creator and finisher throughout his career, but in this particular system that Nate runs his shooting percentages have tanked, his assist numbers are down, he's a starter in name only, and it's looking more and more like he hasn't exactly been given a fair shake here.

His AST% is around the 30% where it has been for the last 4 years, his TOV% is around 15% where it has been for most of his career, his TS% is .514, he is .531 for his career, so the difference is not that bad.

He is pretty much the same player he has been for quite some time now.

You really seem to be confused here. I'm not saying that any of those guys were the answer or should have started or that I'd even want them back, I'm just saying I'm not so sure Nate's offense allows point guards who cycle through here to flourish ... and Steve Blake having a "career year" as a spot up shooter really isn't the same as him having a career year as a point guard.

Nate's system is built around his best player. Brandon Roy. For Roy to be effective as he is, he needs the ball in his hands, and he likes the half-court sets. When Nate tried to appease Miller by putting him in the 2nd unit to run to his tastes and take charge of it, Miller sulked. No matter what Nate does - it is not good. If he is not starting - it is a slap on Miller, and if he starts and gets to plays to the strengths of his super-star, it is a slap on Miller.

Really - we all knew that fast break point-guards are not good playing next to Roy, and quite frankly, half court sets - where Oden will be as efficient as he can be on offense in the future - are again not suited for fast break PGs. Nothing new here. We have seen it with Sergio before. Miller is a square peg, and given that Nate manages to get the same win% out of him while playing him in a system that does not suit him - is quite an achievement.

Good coaches adjust the style to the best players and fit the role players around them. Nate tried to do it by giving Miller his own unit to run, but Miller did not like it. He is trying to get Miller to play with Roy - but if Roy is not the dominant ball handler, you marginalize the wrong player.

So - what to do?

There is a reason Miller was an after-thought in the recruiting process, he is not a good fit offensively, and he is not the solution to Portland's biggest problem last year - perimeter defense against quick guards.

Too many Chiefs, not enough Indians, here. The team needs to revolve around Roy on offense, Oden on defense. Miller is not a good solution on either side of the floor. It is as simple as that. You can go on bitching that Nate needs to accommodate Miller, but the fact is that he tried to - and Miller either did not want to be the guy that takes the 2nd unit and make it flourish, or could not. It is, what it is. Miller is not a good fit, and he is an overrated player, offensively, when you look at the body of his work in the NBA. Simple as that.
 
Miller hurt his back when he smashed into a camera guy during the Clippers game. A part of why he didnt play during the 4th qtr of the Memphis game and why he didnt practice yesterday (before the blow out with Nate) was because his back was bothering him.

Seriously? So he basically dominated for 3 quarters then his back went out? I really hope that is the reason, because I've been questioning the decision to play Bayless in the 4th ever since the start of the 4th that game.
 
Adam Morrison and Jordan Farmar

for

Andre Miller

Morrison and Farmar expire at the end of the year.....keep Farmar if you think he can help at PG and ditch AMMO for something better for next season

If anything I think this trade makes less sense for the Lakers since they are already so far over the cap.

(this works in trade checker)
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top