Nate wants Nic to develop his post game (and more updates on Batum's summer)

[illmatic99]

But you have to admit he has a higher ceiling then Prince.

Most definitely.

 

[THE HCP]

I'm really excited to see a healthy Nic play next year. To be able to build a chemistry with the starting 5 from the first day of camp! He will be a 2nd team all-defensive at the end of next year in my opinion.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Baloney. Batum's shoulder was jacked up and he was ineffective on offense because of it.

I guess that's why his TS% was only .0605 in the Phoenix series - highest of any Portland starter.

It didn't matter who was guarding Nic which is the primary reason Gentry switched Hill to Miller.

So, after Batum scored 18 points in game 1, Gentry knew Batum was useless on offense and switched Hill onto Miller. What complete and total bullshit. Gentry swictehd Hill onto Miller:

a) to stop Miller who torchaed Nash for 31 in game 1
b) because he knew the Blazers didn't have a single set play for Batum in their playbook

You can use Nic's shoulder as an excuse, but it doesn't hold water with me. Seriously, it's not like Nash is some big physical defender. All Batum had to do, with his length is catch and shoot over Nash. But, the Blazers NEVER even tried to exploit the Batum/Nash mismatch once in five games.

BNM

 

[RoyToy]

If Batum wasn't raw on offense it would have helped. If he had the ability of Prince to create his own shot it'd be different.

Batum is not a guy you can count on to beat his man 1 on 1 regularly right now. Hopefully next years he keeps on improving and shows that he can.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Not it wasn't. My argument was Prince has more ability on offense than Batum does

Define "more ability on offense". I already proved Batum is a better shooter from everywhere than Prince has ever been. My definition of offensive ability includes being able to put the ball in the basket, and Batum does that across the board (high TS%, higher FG%, higher 3FG% and higher FT%) at a much more efficient rate than Prince.

combining that with some of the years he was really good defender.

That would be the first two years of his career, when he had DPOY Ben Wallace backing him up. After Wallace left, Prince no longer looked like an elite level defender. At this point, he's actually a liability on defense.

That alone makes him better than Batum, who you said was better than Prince ever was. Sorry, that statement you made it still false.

You sure like to state your opinion like it's an indisputable fact. Well, guess what, it's not. Prince's best two years on defense were his first two. Those also happen to be his two worst years on offense. About the time he developed into an average to slightly above average offense player, his defense started to slip.

I don't see a single season in Prince's eight year NBA career where he was indisputably better than Nicolas Batum during his second season. Yes, it's a small sample size, but in his second NBA season, Nic Batum was better than Tayshaun during any one single season of his career. Feel free to disagree and call that "false" all you want, but unless you can come up with something other than your opinion to back up your argument, you're just blowing a lot of hot air. So, go ahead, Show me one single season in Tayshaun Prince's career where he was indisputably better on offense and defense than Nicolas Batum was in his second NBA season.

Personally, I think Prince's 3rd season is close enough to Batum's 2nd season to call it a draw. Prince put up bigger raw numbers, because he played a lot more minutes, but Nic's pace adjusted per 36 numbers blow Prince's out of the water, with only one exception (passing). Batum shot the ball WAY better than Prince. He also had higher STL%, BLK% and TRB% numbers than Prince. I just dont' see any single season in Prince's career that is unequivocally better than Batum's second season.

BNM

 

[RoyToy]

Define "more ability on offense". I already proved Batum is a better shooter from everywhere than Prince has ever been. My definition of offensive ability includes being able to put the ball in the basket, and Batum does that across the board (high TS%, higher FG%, higher 3FG% and higher FT%) at a much more efficient rate than Prince.

He can create his own shot and run an offense. Batum has shown no ability to do this. High shooting percentages because there's no one in his face is nice, but that's all it is. Batum was astd on over 80% of all his shot attempts, 89% on jumpers.

I'm using my own two eyes, you're relying on strictly numbers. Watch them play - Prince has more ability.

That would be the first two years of his career, when he had DPOY Ben Wallace backing him up. After Wallace left, Prince no longer looked like an elite level defender. At this point, he's actually a liability on defense.

Doesn't matter where/when/what/how/why. Batum at no point has been as good as Prince has in his best season(2004-2005), and this is with Prince being at best a 3rd option. He could have easily averaged more pts, and that goes with the rest of his career. Again, stop relying on numbers.

Watch them play.

You sure like to state your opinion like it's an indisputable fact. Well, guess what, it's not. Prince's best two years on defense were his first two. Those also happen to be his two worst years on offense. About the time he developed into an average to slightly above average offense player, his defense started to slip.

Using your statistical argument, statistically Prince had his best offensive season in his third year, and his drtg was 104 compared to Batum's 107 last year.

I don't see a single season in Prince's eight year NBA career where he was indisputably better than Nicolas Batum during his second season. Yes, it's a small sample size, but in his second NBA season, Nic Batum was better than Tayshaun during any one single season of his career. Feel free to disagree and call that "false" all you want, but unless you can come up with something other than your opinion to back up your argument, you're just blowing a lot of hot air. So, go ahead, Show me one single season in Tayshaun Prince's career where he was indisputably better on offense and defense than Nicolas Batum was in his second NBA season.

2004-2005

Also, his whole career minus his rookie season and his last two seasons. 2003-2004 is actually as close as it gets, and Prince had a 98 drtg.

Personally, I think Prince's 3rd season is close enough to Batum's 2nd season to call it a draw. Prince put up bigger raw numbers, because he played a lot more minutes, but Nic's pace adjusted per 36 numbers blow Prince's out of the water, with only one exception (passing). Batum shot the ball WAY better than Prince. He also had higher STL%, BLK% and TRB% numbers than Prince. I just dont' see any single season in Prince's career that is unequivocally better than Batum's second season.

And Prince is much more capable of putting up bigger numbers. He put up what he did in his limited role with Billups/Hamilton/Sheed on his team. His numbers his whole career have been lower because of it. If you want to use all your per36 crap shit, I'll use my argument of Prince not getting the opportunities he'd get on other teams.

 

[Nikolokolus]

RoyToy, your dangerously close to overtaking Kingspeed in the pedantic argument department ... who gives a shit about all this fucking minutae between Prince and Batum, they're both very comparable at early points in their careers, Batum has a lot of promise and Portland should be happy to have him. For fucks sake.

 

[Boob-No-More]

He can create his own shot and run an offense. Batum has shown no ability to do this.

Really. The coach of the French national team respectfully disagrees. Who ran their offense, and ran it very well, last summer during the Eurobasket tournament when Tony Parker was out? Batum, that's who. You're confusing ability with opportunity.

I'm using my own two eyes

Translation: "in my opinion".

you're relying on strictly numbers.

No I'm not, although I admit they make my case a lot stronger than yours.

Watch them play - Prince has more ability.

I have. I've watched Prince since his days at Kentucky. He's an excellent role player. Nothing more. Never has been, never will be.

Again, stop relying on numbers.

I'm sure if the numbers favored Prince, you'd be using them too. But they don't. So, you can't. So, you prefer to ignore them.

Watch them play.

I have - a lot. And, it just so happens my opinion differs from yours. That doesn't make you right and me wrong. Especially when I've used my "own two eyes" AND the numbers favor Batum.

Using your statistical argument, statistically Prince had his best offensive season in his third year, and his drtg was 104 compared to Batum's 107 last year.

Yep, and Prince's best offensive years was inferior to Batum's second season. So, better offense for Batum combined with better defense from Prince = draw in my book.

And Prince is much more capable of putting up bigger numbers. He put up what he did in his limited role with Billups/Hamilton/Sheed on his team. His numbers his whole career have been lower because of it.

I can easily make the same argument for Batum. He's an afterthought (at best) in Nate's offense and his individual numbers suffer because of it. At least Prince gets more minutes and gets to handle the ball. He has a lot more influence of his own production than Batum does.

If you want to use all your per36 crap shit, I'll use my argument of Prince not getting the opportunities he'd get on other teams.

Ah, I see, any stat that favors Batum is "crap shit". Nice. I get it now. I guess it's just a coincidence that good players post good stats. We should totally ignore stats and just accept your opinion as gospel. Is that how it works? Prince has had a lot more opportunities than Batum, both when the Pistons were good and especially after they dumped Wallace, Wallace and Billups. So, how has he stepped up during what should be the prime of his career (age 27 - 29). His offense continues to be very average and without Ben Wallace behind him, his defense has suffered greatly.

BNM

 

[tlongII]

I guess that's why his TS% was only .0605 in the Phoenix series - highest of any Portland starter.



So, after Batum scored 18 points in game 1, Gentry knew Batum was useless on offense and switched Hill onto Miller. What complete and total bullshit. Gentry swictehd Hill onto Miller:

a) to stop Miller who torchaed Nash for 31 in game 1
b) because he knew the Blazers didn't have a single set play for Batum in their playbook

You can use Nic's shoulder as an excuse, but it doesn't hold water with me. Seriously, it's not like Nash is some big physical defender. All Batum had to do, with his length is catch and shoot over Nash. But, the Blazers NEVER even tried to exploit the Batum/Nash mismatch once in five games.

BNM

You do realize Batum injured his shoulder in game 2 don't you?

 

[RoyToy]

Really. The coach of the French national team respectfully disagrees. Who ran their offense, and ran it very well, last summer during the Eurobasket tournament when Tony Parker was out? Batum, that's who. You're confusing ability with opportunity.

I'm worried about the NBA, not international basketball. Rudy was a good international basketball player. This is as pointless as using pre-season stats. Patty Mills was good in international basketball as well. Sorry, this argument is terrible on your part.

Translation: "in my opinion"

Damn straight.

No I'm not, although I admit they make my case a lot stronger than yours.

Ha.

I have. I've watched Prince since his days at Kentucky. He's an excellent role player. Nothing more. Never has been, never will be

You sure don't think much of a player Batum himself has said he's trying to be.

I'm sure if the numbers favored Prince, you'd be using them too. But they don't. So, you can't. So, you prefer to ignore them.

I've always said #'s don't tell the whole story. That said, yes, in 2004-2005 the numbers favor Prince compared to Batum last season. Remember, your argument was Batum was better than Prince was in any season, which is still wrong.

I have - a lot. And, it just so happens my opinion differs from yours. That doesn't make you right and me wrong. Especially when I've used my "own two eyes" AND the numbers favor Batum.

Well then you are wrong.

Yep, and Prince's best offensive years was inferior to Batum's second season. So, better offense for Batum combined with better defense from Prince = draw in my book.

Sigh...

I can easily make the same argument for Batum. He's an afterthought (at best) in Nate's offense and his individual numbers suffer because of it. At least Prince gets more minutes and gets to handle the ball. He has a lot more influence of his own production than Batum does.

You're assuming Batum has this ability that you've never seen. At no point has Batum ever shown he can break his man down 1 on 1 and create his own shot. That's why he's assisted on 80% of his shots. Webster in comparison is only 70% on close attempts. Rudy is 63%. Batum? 86%

Ah, I see, any stat that favors Batum is "crap shit". Nice. I get it now. I guess it's just a coincidence that good players post good stats. We should totally ignore stats and just accept your opinion as gospel. Is that how it works? Prince has had a lot more opportunities than Batum, both when the Pistons were good and especially after they dumped Wallace, Wallace and Billups. So, how has he stepped up during what should be the prime of his career (age 27 - 29). His offense continues to be very average and without Ben Wallace behind him, his defense has suffered greatly.

Yeah, the Pistons traded Billups for who? Allen Iverson, that's right. Rip was still there, and Sheed was still there last year, combined with Stuckey. This year they had shot chuckers in Ben Gordon and Villanueva.

Drtg is like PER for me, and I don't think it's close to being a be all end all stat.

The formula is: Defensive Rating = (Opponent's Points Allowed/ Opponent's Possessions) x 100. The result is the expected amount of points that an individual player will allow on defense over 100 possessions. This stat can be significantly influenced by the defense of a player's teammates.[/QUOTE]

 

[BGrantFan]

How dare Batum count out Oden. Hasn't he heard that the entire offense needs to run through Oden?

 

[RoyToy]

McMillan is holding the offense back by going through Roy and Aldridge and not Batum and Oden.

In fact, I've been told here Roy is more trouble than he's worth.

 

[BGrantFan]

Bullshit. Nate's an idiot.

This Boob knows more than Nate! LMAO!

 

[BGrantFan]

RoyToy, your dangerously close to overtaking Kingspeed in the pedantic argument department ... who gives a shit about all this fucking minutae between Prince and Batum, they're both very comparable at early points in their careers, Batum has a lot of promise and Portland should be happy to have him. For fucks sake.

Idog taught this board a new word!

 

[Nikolokolus]

Idog taught this board a new word!

Sorry, I'll stick to monosyllabic stuff from now on so you can keep up.

 

[RoyToy]

RoyToy, your dangerously close to overtaking Kingspeed in the pedantic argument department ... who gives a shit about all this fucking minutae between Prince and Batum, they're both very comparable at early points in their careers, Batum has a lot of promise and Portland should be happy to have him. For fucks sake.

Didn't see this post until now, but I really don't care what you think.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Didn't see this post until now, but I really don't care what you think.

Ditto

 

[BGrantFan]

Sorry, I'll stick to monosyllabic stuff from now on so you can keep up.

Sorry, Idog and I had this exchange a few days ago. My pedantry apologies to mocking your newfound word.

 

[ABM]

Ditto

Psychological nudity.

 

[RoyToy]

Ditto

Sure.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Sorry, Idog and I had this exchange a few days ago. My pedantry apologies to mocking your newfound word.

Not new to this board. "Shallow and pedantic" was tossed around quite liberally several months ago. Idog simply resurrected it. Case in point - here.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Sorry, Idog and I had this exchange a few days ago. My pedantry apologies to mocking your newfound word.

Your predilection for little boys and girls is really none of my business.

 

[Boob-No-More]

This Boob knows more than Nate! LMAO!

Is that a threat?

 

[Ed O]

Drtg is like PER for me, and I don't think it's close to being a be all end all stat.

It's funny how you ignore multiple stats because you don't consider them to be the be-all, end-all stat. At least to me

Ed O.

 

[BGrantFan]

Your predilection for little boys and girls is really none of my business.

Stupid post. Are you accusing me of something?

 

[RoyToy]

Never said I ignored them.

 

[BGrantFan]

Is that a threat?

Is this a post?

 

[Minstrel]

Stupid post. Are you accusing me of something?

My guess is that he's making a joke between the words "pedantry" and "pederasty."

 

[Nikolokolus]

My guess is that he's making a joke between the words "pedantry" and "pederasty."

They're the same thing right? You'll have to excuse my dumb hick ass, these are all new words to me.

 

[BGrantFan]

My guess is that he's making a joke between the words "pedantry" and "pederasty."

So saying that I have pederastic tendencies is fine on this board? How is this not a personal attack? I guess I missed the joke. Pedestrian comes to mind...