Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on the..

[KingSpeed]

....floor."

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/01/outlaw_outplays_pistons.html

 

[Darkwebs]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

"Every shot I shoot I think it's going in, bad or good."

That quote from Travis scares me. I hope he tries to improve his shot selection. I dislike how he sometimes jacks up 20 ft jumper when it might behoove the team more if he attacked the rim or passed it to a teammate with a better shot.

 

[mgb]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

Here's a great pic of TO's winning shot and that looks like a great shot to me!

 

[¹²³]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

Interesting.

"I knew who I wanted to go with, but I wanted to involve the coaches, and we all agreed: Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on the floor," McMillan said.

Who are the coaches?

 

[Mediocre Man]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

He made the shot so it's hard to argue, but it scares the shit out of me that they think that.

 

[Hank The Dwarf]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

He made the shot so it's hard to argue, but it scares the shit out of me that they think that.

Who else do you go to in that situation?

Roy and Outlaw are the only players on this team that can get off their own shot any time they want. It is the right call.

 

[ABM]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

He made the shot so it's hard to argue, but it scares the shit out of me that they think that.

I hear ya, but I'm wondering who else I would rather have had taking that last shot last night? Especially upon seeing that picture. MY GOSH! He's a third of a body up over both defenders...like he's in the sky all alone up there! Almost Jordanesque. Wow.

But, yeah, it seems to be a "No! No! No! YES!!!!!" type of situation with Travis.....I mean, almost ALL the time.

 

[blue32]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

I don't know, someone in the game thread put it; cant live with him, cant live without him...

It's true...however, if he can stop being so inconsistent then the blazers will be that much better...

 

[Pinwheel1]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

He made the shot so it's hard to argue, but it scares the shit out of me that they think that.

It shouldn't be that it scares the shit out of you that they think it...........it should scare the shit out of you that it is true.

It's not that he is the second best player on the team, but few players have the ability to get a decent shot off
at any time. I used Gerald Wallace as an example in a different thread, he is a better player than Travis, but at the end of the Charlotte/Boston game they were going to Felton and Augustin in that type of situation. You have to be able to drive to the basket and pull up for a jumper in that scenario.

Even back in the "glory days" Porter IMO opinion was better at it than Clyde. (But Clyde was certainly pretty good at it too) But usually it is your PG, SG and SF who are the option. Who else for Portland right now can do that? Bayless eventually??

 

[Mediocre Man]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

It shouldn't be that it scares the shit out of you that they think it...........it should scare the shit out of you that it is true.

It's not that he is the second best player on the team, but few players have the ability to get a decent shot off
at any time. I used Gerald Wallace as an example in a different thread, he is a better player than Travis, but at the end of the Charlotte/Boston game they were going to Felton and Augustin in that type of situation. You have to be able to drive to the basket and pull up for a jumper in that scenario.

Even back in the "glory days" Porter IMO opinion was better at it than Clyde. (But Clyde was certainly pretty good at it too) But usually it is your PG, SG and SF who are the option. Who else for Portland right now can do that? Bayless eventually??

Maybe that's it. I think Aldridge can do it too. He has done it in other games. The "Bitch" comment to the cockroach himself comes to mind.

 

[julius]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

So we needed another thread to say basically the same thing?

 

[Pinwheel1]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

Maybe that's it. I think Aldridge can do it too. He has done it in other games. The "Bitch" comment to the cockroach himself comes to mind.

He can do it but not as well. Generally what happens when a C or PF gets the ball in a situation like that he gets double and triple teamed and passes the ball to someone else who takes the shot. Usually to a player that the defensive team prefers to shoot. Travis taking a 8 foot shot IMO is a better option.

 

[RR7]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

So we needed another thread to say basically the same thing?

Yes, and I'm sure KingSpeed will make 4 more before the day is done.


Got his "Clutch" glasses on.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

So we needed another thread to say basically the same thing?

By the way that shamwow guy scares the shit out me. Just a freaky looking and sounding dude

 

[1 Eye Jack]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

Who else do you go to in that situation?

Roy and Outlaw are the only players on this team that can get off their own shot any time they want. It is the right call.

I would prefer Rudy have the ball at the end of the game if it's not Roy. Although Travis has hit some big shots and can almost always get his shot off. Bad coaching by Curry last night. First he should have had Prince on Travis and Prince should have taken that last shot.

 

[STOMP]

Who else do you go to in that situation?

Roy and Outlaw are the only players on this team that can get off their own shot any time they want. It is the right call.

I think Bayless can get his own shot at will though it's probably a little early to be handing him the reigns right now. I wouldn't be surprised to see him pass up TO as a last shot go to option as he's got the quickness/strength/hops to separate for a good look and obviously has a much better handle. Options are nice!

STOMP

 

[Blaze01]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

I think if POR is going to rely on Outlaw taking fadeaway shots over double teams to win games...then they are not making the playoffs.....


I mean it is great that Travis made the game winning shot last night and that he was 6-10 from the field...but it doesn't erase his poor shot selection or his piss poor defense....the guy is a black hole on offense and clueless on defense...after 6 years in the NBA.....If Pritchard is smart, it will be Travis who is dealt to clear room and more playing time for Batum and Webster.....

 

[Foulzilla]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

I would prefer Rudy have the ball at the end of the game if it's not Roy. Although Travis has hit some big shots and can almost always get his shot off. Bad coaching by Curry last night. First he should have had Prince on Travis and Prince should have taken that last shot.

I don't agree. At least this year. Rudy might be a good option in the future, but so far he's not shown enough consistency for me to want him handling the ball on the final shot (I would however be perfectly happy with him being set up with a relatively open 3 as the final shot, as thats the one area I do feel confident in him).

While Rudy clearly has the skills to be an effective slasher, he's got the small problem that he's a rookie and thus is pretty much guaranteed to not get a call (particularly on a last play of the game time of shot). I hate that it's this way, but it is. Outlaw at least has a bit of a reputation and time spent in the league so has a chance at getting a foul called on that type of play.

Really, I think Outlaw was probably the right number to call in this situation. I'd prefer Aldridge taking a shot generally, but it's a lot harder for him to create a good one for himself, so Outlaw is the ideal choice when Roy is out.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

That quote from Travis scares me. I hope he tries to improve his shot selection. I dislike how he sometimes jacks up 20 ft jumper when it might behoove the team more if he attacked the rim or passed it to a teammate with a better shot.

That quote from Travis shows me why he is the best clutch shooter on the team outside of Roy.

He's a shooter. A shooter should not have a conscience.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

Again, it's moot b/c we won, but let's take a look.

Travis had his number called by Nate. was basically guaranteed to shoot the shot if he wanted (as evidence by driving into a double-team to shoot it). Still, no worries. That was what the coach drew up.

One thing that wasn't in Nate's quotes, the picture or what is on here is that he took the shot with 9 seconds left or so (clock stopped with 8.2, iirc). Someone decided, (whether Nate or Travis, idk) to give a team with Allen Iverson and Prince going 13-20 or whatever the ball down one with 8 seconds left. The 'Brian's a hater' folks only get to give the Benefit Of The Doubt to one person...either that Nate really didn't draw up a play to Travis to give them the ball with 8 seconds left, or Travis didn't really try to think on his own and start the play WAY early. Because, for all the "Travis is clutch" love, Allen Iverson is much more accomplished and more "clutch" than Travis, and IDK that giving him the ball with 8 seconds left and a timeout down one is a good recipe going forward.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

That quote from Travis shows me why he is the best clutch shooter on the team outside of Roy.

He's a shooter. A shooter should not have a conscience.

I agree. Travis was developed by the Blazers not to have a conscience, because that was his best chance for success as an NBA player. He can iso and create a shot whenever he feels like it, and makes a lot of tough shots.

#25 it is!

 

[mook]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

Again, it's moot b/c we won, but let's take a look.

Travis had his number called by Nate. was basically guaranteed to shoot the shot if he wanted (as evidence by driving into a double-team to shoot it). Still, no worries. That was what the coach drew up.

One thing that wasn't in Nate's quotes, the picture or what is on here is that he took the shot with 9 seconds left or so (clock stopped with 8.2, iirc). Someone decided, (whether Nate or Travis, idk) to give a team with Allen Iverson and Prince going 13-20 or whatever the ball down one with 8 seconds left. The 'Brian's a hater' folks only get to give the Benefit Of The Doubt to one person...either that Nate really didn't draw up a play to Travis to give them the ball with 8 seconds left, or Travis didn't really try to think on his own and start the play WAY early. Because, for all the "Travis is clutch" love, Allen Iverson is much more accomplished and more "clutch" than Travis, and IDK that giving him the ball with 8 seconds left and a timeout down one is a good recipe going forward.

Actually if you are down by 1 point and it's the end of the game with 9 seconds left, you don't want Travis to run the clock down. You want to take the best shot you can as quickly as possible, so if you miss you at least have time for an offensive rebound or you can foul.

The last play of the game made total sense to me. Outlaw's singular skill is that he can pretty much create a 42% shot any time he wants to, from wherever he wants to, and he'll make it around that 42% shot in the first quarter or with 2 seconds left in the game. 42% doesn't sound great, but it's actually not bad in the clutch, because a lot of guys (even on our own team) choke and shoot a lot worse with the pressure of the game on them.

It was a smart play call, and Outlaw took the shot early like he should have. (Now, I think he probably could've got a slightly easier shot for himself without driving into a doubleteam first, but hey, he made it.)

 

[PapaG]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

Again, it's moot b/c we won, but let's take a look.

Travis had his number called by Nate. was basically guaranteed to shoot the shot if he wanted (as evidence by driving into a double-team to shoot it). Still, no worries. That was what the coach drew up.

One thing that wasn't in Nate's quotes, the picture or what is on here is that he took the shot with 9 seconds left or so (clock stopped with 8.2, iirc). Someone decided, (whether Nate or Travis, idk) to give a team with Allen Iverson and Prince going 13-20 or whatever the ball down one with 8 seconds left. The 'Brian's a hater' folks only get to give the Benefit Of The Doubt to one person...either that Nate really didn't draw up a play to Travis to give them the ball with 8 seconds left, or Travis didn't really try to think on his own and start the play WAY early. Because, for all the "Travis is clutch" love, Allen Iverson is much more accomplished and more "clutch" than Travis, and IDK that giving him the ball with 8 seconds left and a timeout down one is a good recipe going forward.

Um, the team was down by one point. If it is tied, I totally agree that you wait until the buzzer, but taking the shot with time left to either get an offensive rebound or to foul a Detroit player is exactly the right call. I'm actually a bit surprised that you wrote the above. Always leave yourself mutliple opportunities at the end of a game if you are losing. It's Coaching 101.

Perhaps you should go a bit easier on your "Basketball IQ" criticisms of Outlaw. He made the right play and you are saying he should have shot later.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

I think Aldridge can do it too.

I was thinking Aldridge as well. With the kind of night he was having, a strong move to the basket should get a foul or a good chance at a basket.

I haven't seen the reply, but I'm guessing Detroit was thinking the same thing because where was Prince? Shouldn't he have been guarding Outlaw? Was prince guarding Aldridge?

Anyways, with a decoy in the game (Roy or Aldridge), Outlaw is a good go to guy for a needed basket. If the other team knows Outalw is going to take the shot . .. Outlaw is not the best choice.

And if I may just state the obvious . . . after watching Prince last night, I would love to see him in a Blazer uni.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

Um, the team was down by one point. If it is tied, I totally agree that you wait until the buzzer, but taking the shot with time left to either get an offensive rebound or to foul a Detroit player is exactly the right call. I'm actually a bit surprised that you wrote the above. Always leave yourself mutliple opportunities at the end of a game if you are losing. It's Coaching 101.

Perhaps you should go a bit easier on your "Basketball IQ" criticisms of Outlaw. He made the right play and you are saying he should have shot later.

Absolutely. I was going to be pissed if they waited until the last few seconds.

 

[MrJayremmie]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

Actually if you are down by 1 point and it's the end of the game with 9 seconds left, you don't want Travis to run the clock down. You want to take the best shot you can as quickly as possible, so if you miss you at least have time for an offensive rebound or you can foul.

I was going to say this. Travis did the right thing.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

Um, the team was down by one point. If it is tied, I totally agree that you wait until the buzzer, but taking the shot with time left to either get an offensive rebound or to foul a Detroit player is exactly the right call. I'm actually a bit surprised that you wrote the above. Always leave yourself mutliple opportunities at the end of a game if you are losing. It's Coaching 101.

Perhaps you should go a bit easier on your "Basketball IQ" criticisms of Outlaw. He made the right play and you are saying he should have shot later.

First, this post wasn't a "Basketball IQ" criticism of Outlaw. I could fill a forum with those posts, but that wasn't the intent of my last one. I wanted to know if that was Nate's call, or Travis's call to shoot with 9 seconds left. I'm totally willing to give one of them the BOD. Maybe Nate told Travis to, and he did it (good for him). Maybe Nate said milk the clock down, and Travis didn't. Whatever.

The point is this: I agree that you give yourself multiple chances. 10 seconds is much too long in my book. And if we were going for the "multiple chances", where was the offensive rebounding? I'll have to go back and freeze-frame when I get home, but I could not see a single Blazer in the picture in position to get the board if Travis missed. There are multiple potential reasons for this: one is that Nate told them Travis was taking a shot as soon as he could get one and they didn't think he'd miss it. (Unlikely, since as someone pointed out Travis is generally 42% on his jumpers). Or they heard that and didn't get position for the rebound, out of laziness, DET effectiveness, whatever (this position strengthened by the fact that we were -12 in rebounds up until that point). It's possible that no one was expecting a shot with 10 seconds left that left 8.2 to go when it went through, so they weren't in position. I have no idea, which is why I posed the question. Instead of discussion about it (to PapaG's point, I TOTALLY CONCUR that he should have shot later, I'll stand by that) I get people saying "Travis did the right thing", "It's Coaching 101", "It was a smart play call, and Outlaw took the shot early like he should have."

I see that I won't get real discussion about Nate or Travis, since I'm supposedly biased against both and many in here are biased for them, so it just becomes emotional.

So for the instructors of Coaching 101, what's the limit? I think 10 seconds is too much. Obviously many of you don't. So what's the threshold? If he could have taken it with 15 seconds left do you tell him to? 20? Leave an entire 24? What's your number for being able to get a "multiple chance"? Can we talk about this without it deteriorating into name-calling and stuff?.

EDIT: And if you're a member of the "shoot as quickly as possible" club, can you give reasons why you'd want to give AI and Prince a chance with that much time left? I'm not an NBA coach, but I would think that I want the last shot in that scenario. Make or miss, I don't want to put the game in the hands of their offense against my defense, since we've seen multiple losses in the last 18 months when we do that and a few more "lucky break" misses by shooters who normally make them (and AI's shot would be a decent example of that).

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

So for the instructors of Coaching 101, what's the limit? I think 10 seconds is too much. Obviously many of you don't. So what's the threshold? If he could have taken it with 15 seconds left do you tell him to? 20? Leave an entire 24? What's your number for being able to get a "multiple chance"?

There is no threshold. When you're trailing, you are simply not playing for last shot or concerned at all with how much chance the other team will have. You take the first good shot you can get. If the first shot hits, you depend on being able to play defense for one (probably shortened) possession to preserve the lead. In the more likely scenario that the shot misses, you want as much time left on the clock to get the ball back (whether by rebound, steal or foul) and get another good shot attempt.

The paramount issue, when behind, is giving yourself the best chance to erase the deficit before time expires, not trying to limit the other team's chance to score after you've erased the deficit. It's nice if they don't get a chance, but you can't try to design that because it will come at the expense of the top priority...maximizing your chances of scoring and erasing the deficit.

The earliest point that Outlaw believed he had a shot that he had a good chance of hitting was when he should have shot. If, by some defensive breakdown, he could have gotten a layup the moment it was inbounded, he should have taken it. Even if that left plenty of time for Detroit.

 

[Ed O]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

EDIT: And if you're a member of the "shoot as quickly as possible" club, can you give reasons why you'd want to give AI and Prince a chance with that much time left? I'm not an NBA coach, but I would think that I want the last shot in that scenario. Make or miss, I don't want to put the game in the hands of their offense against my defense, since we've seen multiple losses in the last 18 months when we do that and a few more "lucky break" misses by shooters who normally make them (and AI's shot would be a decent example of that).

Get the lead first. Worry about losing the game later.

It's really that simple to me.

Ed O.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Re: Nate: "We all agreed. Travis is the best to have the ball if Brandon is not on t

"EDIT: And if you're a member of the "shoot as quickly as possible" club, can you give reasons why you'd want to give AI and Prince a chance with that much time left? I'm not an NBA coach, but I would think that I want the last shot in that scenario. Make or miss, I don't want to put the game in the hands of their offense against my defense, since we've seen multiple losses in the last 18 months when we do that and a few more "lucky break" misses by shooters who normally make them (and AI's shot would be a decent example of that)"

If you take the first "good shot" and make it, they will do the same. You still will probably have time for another possession. (2 seconds is an enternity)
However if you miss the shot and they rebound, then you foul and you still have plenty of time to tie with a three. Why wait too long and take a chance for someone coming over and tripple teaming you and never getting a shot off? Shooting quick has better odds.