Neil's plan?

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Orion Bailey said:
Trying to be as impartial as I can, I think this statement was directed at yourself? Warm ups and getting into rhythm are completely different. By your standards then everyone should produce in their first 5 minutes or be benched?

It is you that isn't making any sense. Sorry....
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Haven't any of you guys taken a science class? I have to spoon feed you guys like baby birds.

Come up with a hypothesis, find a way to test it, then analyze the result. The excuse for Noah Vonleh producing so little per 36 minutes is that he didn't have enough time to "get into rhythm." If that is the case, that NBA players in general require so much time to "get into the rhythm", then we'd see evidence of that. 1st quarter scores would be lower than other quarters, because everyone is starting the game from point 0, as far as this "theory of rhythm" goes. But that is not the case.

So it's not the case for NBA players in general. If Noah needs to be on the court for 5 minutes or whatever, producing almost nothing before he can get into rhythm, then it's a sign that HE has a problem.

Another stat you can look at, is how he compares to other bench players score per 36. They'd be facing the same theorhetical "rhythm" problem that Vonleh faces.

He's so far down there, it might be easier for you to see a list of guys that he is above in that statistic, because the list is so short.

Andre Roberson, Joakim Noah, Tyson Chandler, Kevin Garnett, Trey Lyles, Lamar Patterson, Nick Collison, Alonzo Gee, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, Kyle Singler,Omer Asik, Tayshaun Prince.


So there you go. Even if I grant you the rhythm argument, you still lose, because he still sucks relative to other bench players. Look at these guys, they are all known for being no offense defensive specialists. And Vonleh is not even that.
 
Another thing, he's FG% is very low. Most guys that are not talented enough on offense to be one of the primary options, are opportunistic scorers, and thus, have high FG%, but Vonleh's eFG% is 44%.

You can talk about how much talent or potential he has, but his output, right now, is abysmal.
 
Sinobas said:
Haven't any of you guys taken a science class? I have to spoon feed you guys like baby birds.

Come up with a hypothesis, find a way to test it, then analyze the result. The excuse for Noah Vonleh producing so little per 36 minutes is that he didn't have enough time to "get into rhythm." If that is the case, that NBA players in general require so much time to "get into the rhythm", then we'd see evidence of that. 1st quarter scores would be lower than other quarters, because everyone is starting the game from point 0, as far as this "theory of rhythm" goes. But that is not the case.
This doesnt even make sense....


So it's not the case for NBA players in general. If Noah needs to be on the court for 5 minutes or whatever, producing almost nothing before he can get into rhythm, then it's a sign that HE has a problem.

Another stat you can look at, is how he compares to other bench players score per 36. They'd be facing the same theorhetical "rhythm" problem that Vonleh faces.

He's so far down there, it might be easier for you to see a list of guys that he is above in that statistic, because the list is so short.

Andre Roberson, Joakim Noah, Tyson Chandler, Kevin Garnett, Trey Lyles, Lamar Patterson, Nick Collison, Alonzo Gee, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, Kyle Singler,Omer Asik, Tayshaun Prince.


So there you go. Even if I grant you the rhythm argument, you still lose, because he still sucks relative to other bench players. Look at these guys, they are all known for being no offense defensive specialists. And Vonleh is not even that.
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Your fault is that you are assuming all players get into rhythm at the same time.
Many players take 5 minutes to get into rhythm. The fact you cant see that negates your whole statement about spoon feeding whatever... ;)
Not all players are the same. I would think that's a no brainer?
 
Also.... who scored the first points last night??? Pretty sure it was this dud.. ;)
 
BonesJones said:
Where'd Sinobas go? I guess I ran him outta here and took control of this thread.
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I was trying to find a clip on youtube where Bob Knight was poking fun of the word "rhythm" in relation to basketball. But I couldn't find it.

But anyway, maybe the reason you're a backup, is that if it takes you so long to get into the game it makes you a liability. Jose Aldo needed time to find his "rhythm", and this happened!
 
Orion Bailey said:
Your fault is that you are assuming all players get into rhythm at the same time.
Many players take 5 minutes to get into rhythm. The fact you cant see that negates your whole statement about spoon feeding whatever... ;)
Not all players are the same. I would think that's a no brainer?
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Those players are a liability then, unless they are bringing something good right away.

But I still don't buy it, because not every player needs to be the same in order for that "rhythm" affect to show up in the overall team scoring data by quarter.

And why would a coach bring a guy off the bench who takes 5 minutes to be productive? Most bench guys play 6-7 minute stretches. Coach, just leave me in for 5 minutes, and I swear I you won't regret it once I warm up and finish the last 2 strong.
 
Sinobas said:
Those players are a liability then, unless they are bringing something good right away.

But I still don't buy it, because not every player needs to be the same in order for that "rhythm" affect to show up in the overall team scoring data by quarter.

And why would a coach bring a guy off the bench who takes 5 minutes to be productive? Most bench guys play 6-7 minute stretches. Coach, just leave me in for 5 minutes, and I swear I you won't regret it once I warm up and finish the last 2 strong.
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And that's why some players are better as starters and some do well off the bench.
 
Sinobas said:
Those players are a liability then, unless they are bringing something good right away.

But I still don't buy it, because not every player needs to be the same in order for that "rhythm" affect to show up in the overall team scoring data by quarter.

And why would a coach bring a guy off the bench who takes 5 minutes to be productive? Most bench guys play 6-7 minute stretches. Coach, just leave me in for 5 minutes, and I swear I you won't regret it once I warm up and finish the last 2 strong.
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And that's why some players are better as starters and some do well off the bench.
 
jlprk said:
Hawes was widely considered a fuckup until his one adequate year for the awful 76ers. Other than one year's stats, he was a clown. And he was nothing great for Philadelphia.
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Interesting that you believe that enough as proof why we shouldn't have signed him. Especially since his 1 good season in Philly was actually a half season in Cleveland when he put up his best stats. His 4 seasons in Philly he average 10 and 7 in 25mpg. His 3 seasons in SAC he averaged 8.8 and 5.5 in 23mpg. By comparison our own beloved Lopez in his 4 seasons prior to coming here was very similar. Look I get that Spencer Hawes was not the Holy Grail free agent everyone delusionally thinks we have a chance at and therefore think the GM is punishable by termination, but lets at least keep our feet on the ground here and realize Portland is not a place that Free Agents want to come. The funny thing abou the whole thing is the people complaining about the targets would still want Olshey fired for targetting and failing at landing Durrant this summer.
 
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Schilly said:
By comparison our own beloved Lopez in his 4 seasons prior to coming here was very similar...
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And that's just it - Hawes was no better than Lopez, yet we were going to give Hawes a contract similar to the one that NYK just gave Lopez. Lopez was great because of what we paid for his production. Double the price and he's no longer an asset he's an anchor.
 
jlprk said:
Hawes was widely considered a fuckup until his one adequate year for the awful 76ers. Other than one year's stats, he was a clown. And he was nothing great for Philadelphia.



Only Olshey said that, to justify his pursuit. The only other team who made Hawes an offer was the Clippers. Even if you find one other team which mildly expressed interest, the fact remains that the whole league saw Hawes as a Donald Trump-like blowhard, who in the media was always begging for someone to argue with him about politics, but couldn't put out on the court. The black equivalent would get banished from the league by all the Canzanos.
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So Olshey suckered the Clippers into overpaying for Hawes? Then he caused OKC to sign Kanter to a crippling contract?

Brilliant.
 
Sinobas said:
Haven't any of you guys taken a science class? I have to spoon feed you guys like baby birds.

Come up with a hypothesis, find a way to test it, then analyze the result. The excuse for Noah Vonleh producing so little per 36 minutes is that he didn't have enough time to "get into rhythm." If that is the case, that NBA players in general require so much time to "get into the rhythm", then we'd see evidence of that. 1st quarter scores would be lower than other quarters, because everyone is starting the game from point 0, as far as this "theory of rhythm" goes. But that is not the case.

So it's not the case for NBA players in general. If Noah needs to be on the court for 5 minutes or whatever, producing almost nothing before he can get into rhythm, then it's a sign that HE has a problem.

Another stat you can look at, is how he compares to other bench players score per 36. They'd be facing the same theorhetical "rhythm" problem that Vonleh faces.

He's so far down there, it might be easier for you to see a list of guys that he is above in that statistic, because the list is so short.

Andre Roberson, Joakim Noah, Tyson Chandler, Kevin Garnett, Trey Lyles, Lamar Patterson, Nick Collison, Alonzo Gee, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, Kyle Singler,Omer Asik, Tayshaun Prince.


So there you go. Even if I grant you the rhythm argument, you still lose, because he still sucks relative to other bench players. Look at these guys, they are all known for being no offense defensive specialists. And Vonleh is not even that.
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Not saying its the reason he can't preform, just saying he'll likely get better as the game wears on, especially since he doesnt have a feel for the level of play let. Since he doesn't have a feel for the level of play yet, he needs more minutes to build some sort of rythym. The more minutes he gets per game, the more he'll get comfortable with his game as a whole. Im personally going through the same thing.

At the start of the game there's no rythym established. You're operating on the premise that you need a rythym to make a shot, which is not the case. But more often do you see someone come out shooting poorly than lighting it up.

And that list doesnt prove anything. I'm not arguing that he's playing well at all, I'm just saying that the more minutes he plays in a game, the more comfortable he'll get. The more comfortable he gets, the better feel he'll have for the NBA game. It's basic logic. There's a reason Dame usually doesnt go off till the second half.
 
BonesJones said:
Not saying its the reason he can't preform, just saying he'll likely get better as the game wears on, especially since he doesnt have a feel for the level of play let. Since he doesn't have a feel for the level of play yet, he needs more minutes to build some sort of rythym. The more minutes he gets per game, the more he'll get comfortable with his game as a whole. Im personally going through the same thing.

At the start of the game there's no rythym established. You're operating on the premise that you need a rythym to make a shot, which is not the case. But more often do you see someone come out shooting poorly than lighting it up.

And that list doesnt prove anything. I'm not arguing that he's playing well at all, I'm just saying that the more minutes he plays in a game, the more comfortable he'll get. The more comfortable he gets, the better feel he'll have for the NBA game. It's basic logic. There's a reason Dame usually doesn't go off till the second half.
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This is very common among younger players. CJ had to get a rhythm going to and he couldn't do it until he saw consistent minutes.
 
BonesJones said:
You beat me intellectually when it comes to this? Haha

PLEASE tell me what was the highest level of ball you ever played. Be honest.

You sound like Skip Bayless, acting like you know how the mental part of the game works even though you have no intellect on the subject, as you have no experience. But somehow you still act like you have more intellect than those who have actually stepped on the court.

To make up for your lack of intellect, you talk louder and say trollish things like the post above, which reminds me of the type of thing Skip Bayless would spit out of his shit-spewing mouth.
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if you want to insult the guy...insult the post ..no personal insults ...the mods are slippin'
 
riverman said:
if you want to insult the guy...insult the post ..no personal insults ...the mods are slippin'
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Is it really that grainy? I didn't see an issue with that. He said he sounded like a guy with no intellect. He didn't say he is unintelligent. Coulda been much worse... just sayin. :)
Afterall, Sinobas insinuated that we have bird brains, in a round about way. lol
 
oldmangrouch said:
So the fact that CJ, Crabbe, and Plums haven't sucked is also meaningless? You can't have it both ways.
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Mason Plumlee - 25 years old, 4 years of college, 3835 minutes played in the NBA, 182 games.

CJ McCollum - 24 years old, 4 years of college, 2468 minutes played in the NBA, 129 games.

Allen Crabbe - 23 years old, 3 years of college, 1518 minutes played in the NBA, 96 games.

Noah Vonleh - 20 years old, 1 year of college, 696 minutes played in the NBA, 55 games.

One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just isn't the same.
 
I'm in awe that people are struggling to understand Neils plan.He's building a team that this is the bottom out year. He will add a top 5 pick, then try to attract a Free agent this summer. Next year the team even without that top 5 pick will have gotten better because it's youg and will be be likely just outside the playoffs, add one more top 14 guy, then 2017 its all about the playoffs as Dame, CJ, Plumlee, and even Aminu and Davis start entering their prime ages.
 
I was never on the Vonleh wagon, but i try not to judge players under 22.

As i told you guys before - think of Vonleh as if he was David West in his college years.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Mason Plumlee - 25 years old, 4 years of college, 3835 minutes played in the NBA, 182 games.

CJ McCollum - 24 years old, 4 years of college, 2468 minutes played in the NBA, 129 games.

Allen Crabbe - 23 years old, 3 years of college, 1518 minutes played in the NBA, 96 games.

Noah Vonleh - 20 years old, 1 year of college, 696 minutes played in the NBA, 55 games.

One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just isn't the same.
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As I've said before, I would buy that argument if Vonleh was inconsistent...if he was mixing mistakes with spectacular plays. Instead of inconsistent, he is just consistently not very good. Big difference.
 
oldmangrouch said:
As I've said before, I would buy that argument if Vonleh was inconsistent...if he was mixing mistakes with spectacular plays. Instead of inconsistent, he is just consistently not very good. Big difference.
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I think we can all agree he probably needed to stay in college another year or two and he tends to disappear in the starting unit but he averaged 18 per game in summer league the skills are there let him get used to the speed of the NBA and reevaluate after the season is all im sayin. I think he is gunna start to become more and more effective as the season goes along and he gets more acclimated to the NBA and his new teammates.
 
oldmangrouch said:
As I've said before, I would buy that argument if Vonleh was inconsistent...if he was mixing mistakes with spectacular plays. Instead of inconsistent, he is just consistently not very good. Big difference.
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How many actual touches is he getting? He's basically just a body out there. Do you remember what Crabbe looked like last season? If a player isn't confident, and they defer, then they will look like total crap. It took Crabbe three years to actually develop into anything useful, AND he was a three year college player.
 
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