Nelson Cruz going wild for the O's

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Looks like the masking agents are still working fine for him.
 
Getting tired of MLB "analysts" singing the praises of Cruz, Melky, Braun and for the stupid fans that support them. Dude is probably still juicing, oops I'm sorry, they didn't know that what they were using was illegal.
 
The most he ever hit in a season was 33 in 2009 with Texas. This year he's on pace for 57
 
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There was a post back around March-April about the current state of Steroid/HGH/PED use in today's current MLB........

I made a statment: "With the public news exposure, increased testing, it would take a fool to use steroids today". I believe I was more than a bit NAIVE. Now the season has been in play.....I can't believe Nelson Cruz is clean. How the hell can he be?

I'd like to know what masking agents are or can be used today, that show a negative use of roids. Obviously it appears, the use is still there, maybe not as rampant, yet I wouldn't be surprised if 20 percent of players are still cheating. 20% may be a low or high number.

BUT-its hard to believe numbers like Cruz is putting up are flukes....he couldn't hit this many HR's on PEDs, so how the hell is he doing it without? I say he is dirty. I'd just like to know what these guys are using to create a false negative testing?

TOTE: where are you, we need your pharmaceutical expertise you "Mad Scientist".....!
 
Anyone know how to search historical data for playersvwith 20+ HR deltas over any 2 seasons. When games played are normalized, guess we could look at HR/AB ratios, I think we'll find that while less than common, its not unprecedented. However, we have all been conditioned to believe that PED use is linked to power performance.

As for testing....always many steps behind current state of the art. There is a reasonable probability that new agents are in use today. If I was a user that was never implicated, I wouldn't stop using to raise suspicion, rather I'd double down with something not screened and taper off over a long period of time.

As for steroids, keep in mind that once the muscle mass is built up, as long as he does maintenance work out he can actually improve performance without taking anymore drugs. Arnold maintained his form for decades after a focus stint of roids when young.

You old farts have to stop thinking that PEDs are like Viagra, the effects don't just wear/rub off over a short period of time.
 
totus44 said:
Anyone know how to search historical data for playersvwith 20+ HR deltas over any 2 seasons. When games played are normalized, guess we could look at HR/AB ratios, I think we'll find that while less than common, its not unprecedented. However, we have all been conditioned to believe that PED use is linked to power performance.

As for testing....always many steps behind current state of the art. There is a reasonable probability that new agents are in use today. If I was a user that was never implicated, I wouldn't stop using to raise suspicion, rather I'd double down with something not screened and taper off over a long period of time.

As for steroids, keep in mind that once the muscle mass is built up, as long as he does maintenance work out he can actually improve performance without taking anymore drugs. Arnold maintained his form for decades after a focus stint of roids when young.

You old farts have to stop thinking that PEDs are like Viagra, the effects don't just wear/rub off over a short period of time.
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Thank You, the insight is helpful.....informative...!

I wouldn't know about Viagra quit yet, :lol:

How many more years do you believe will transpire, before MLB testing catches up with the state of the art use, and masking of substances? Or will it ever, seems like once something is created and released, in this case, testing for masking substances; (in most technologies when a new state of the art product is released, that is the moment its deemed outdated or as some say-obsolete tech).

Then again, like cocaine, amphetamine use of the 80s, even Sudafed, the constant pursuit to maintain "an edge" over the competition, seems to only evolve to other substances, still deemed foreign, or new, to testing protocols.
 
Testing really can't keep up, ever. And in fact we are on the threshold of genetic engineering where no test could ever be devised. Stem cell and gene therapy targets for combating failing eyesight, muscle wasting, osteoporosis, etc. could all be misused by athletes looking for an edge. And with the current state of healthcare, there are a lot of doctors looking to make a buck under the table these days.
 
totus44 said:
Testing really can't keep up, ever. And in fact we are on the threshold of genetic engineering where no test could ever be devised. Stem cell and gene therapy targets for combating failing eyesight, muscle wasting, osteoporosis, etc. could all be misused by athletes looking for an edge. And with the current state of healthcare, there are a lot of doctors looking to make a buck under the table these days.
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Wow....great stuff Tom.....as usual.

You own this subject matter compadre...!
 
Lets see if I could help with your request Tom.........................

With a minimum of 140 games played.............

Brady Anderson 1995 = 143 games 16 home runs
Brady Anderson 1996 = 149 games 50 home runs

Sammy Sosa 1997 = 162 games 36 home runs
Sammy Sosa 1998 = 159 games 66 home runs

Kevin Mitchell 1988 = 148 games 19 home runs
Kevin Mitchell 1989 = 154 games 47 home runs

Kirby Puckett 1985 = 161 games 4 home runs
Kirby Puckett 1986 = 161 games 31 home runs

Luis Gonzales 2000 = 162 games 31 home runs
Luis Gonzales 2001 = 162 games 57 home runs

Adrian Beltre 2003 = 158 games 23 home runs
Adrain Beltre 2004 = 156 games 48 home runs

Shawn Green 2000 = 162 games 24 home runs
Shawn Green 2001 = 161 games 49 home runs

There have been many players with increases of 20 or more from one season to the next. Guys like Gehrig, Ruth, Maris, Banks, Kiner, Bonds, Mathews, and Cepeda, But the above group are IMO where you said, "WAIT!, what the hell is going on"?
 
...that sort of technology won't be available to just anyone and as long as there is any possibility of a paper trail or someone getting greedy (and there will be) buyers and suppliers will be caught just as they were with BALCO, BIOGENESIS, etc...in the meantime, testing will still catch some who are determined to short cut the system, and is more of a deterrent than ever with much stiffer penalties. But like I just mentioned, testing is by no means the only way of catching cheaters.
 
totus44 said:
Anyone know how to search historical data for playersvwith 20+ HR deltas over any 2 seasons. When games played are normalized, guess we could look at HR/AB ratios, I think we'll find that while less than common, its not unprecedented. However, we have all been conditioned to believe that PED use is linked to power performance.

As for testing....always many steps behind current state of the art. There is a reasonable probability that new agents are in use today. If I was a user that was never implicated, I wouldn't stop using to raise suspicion, rather I'd double down with something not screened and taper off over a long period of time.

As for steroids, keep in mind that once the muscle mass is built up, as long as he does maintenance work out he can actually improve performance without taking anymore drugs. Arnold maintained his form for decades after a focus stint of roids when young.

You old farts have to stop thinking that PEDs are like Viagra, the effects don't just wear/rub off over a short period of time.
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... the "old farts" realize that all of the steroids players take are PEDS...but all of the PEDS players take are not necessarily steroids.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...that sort of technology won't be available to just anyone and as long as there is any possibility of a paper trail or someone getting greedy (and there will be) buyers and suppliers will be caught just as they were with BALCO, BIOGENESIS, etc...in the meantime, testing will still catch some who are determined to short cut the system, and is more of a deterrent than ever with much stiffer penalties. But like I just mentioned, testing is by no means the only way of catching cheaters.
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Good point Ron...!
 
Guys, the technology is here. Stem cell techniques have been done on Kobe, Tiger and ARod....post-op. The gene therapies exist and under investigation. Doctors are wired into clinics, research institutes, etc because of changes in funding priorities as per a side effect of the AHCA. There are thousands of young hot shot docs with hundreds of thousands in debt and no pathway out of the red. Balco and Biogenesis taught us how to best hide these activities, as did Lance. Its not really that difficult, the Columbians have been really good at it for decades.

The stuff coming next won't have the paper trail guys. As long as there is big money in sports that follows performance, someone will find a way.
 
totus44 said:
Guys, the technology is here. Stem cell techniques have been done on Kobe, Tiger and ARod....post-op. The gene therapies exist and under investigation. Doctors are wired into clinics, research institutes, etc because of changes in funding priorities as per a side effect of the AHCA. There are thousands of young hot shot docs with hundreds of thousands in debt and no pathway out of the red. Balco and Biogenesis taught us how to best hide these activities, as did Lance. Its not really that difficult, the Columbians have been really good at it for decades.

The stuff coming next won't have the paper trail guys. As long as there is big money in sports that follows performance, someone will find a way.
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And as long as there are owners willing to give out long term multi-million dollar contracts players will find a way to cash in on them.
 
totus44 said:
Guys, the technology is here. Stem cell techniques have been done on Kobe, Tiger and ARod....post-op. The gene therapies exist and under investigation. Doctors are wired into clinics, research institutes, etc because of changes in funding priorities as per a side effect of the AHCA. There are thousands of young hot shot docs with hundreds of thousands in debt and no pathway out of the red. Balco and Biogenesis taught us how to best hide these activities, as did Lance. Its not really that difficult, the Columbians have been really good at it for decades.

The stuff coming next won't have the paper trail guys. As long as there is big money in sports that follows performance, someone will find a way.
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...no one said it would not be used...but as long as there's "greed" someone will get pinched because eventually the buyer/seller will feel they got shorted/ripped off...and as long as there's communication between the buyer and seller there will be a paper trail...(text messages/phone records count too)
...and there's no comparison between supervised post-op stem cell therapy and the hulk like mutations of Bonds and Sosa et al...and the last time I checked, ARod, Kobe, and Tiger are still inactive even though their stem cell treatment was approved by their sport ahead of time, and/or legally administered by a licensed doctor in a controlled atmosphere, not in a back room of a strip mall by some clown with a shady past...sorry, I just don't see the conspiracy theory here.


...this technology is still in it's infancy and is highly advance and secretive, and fresh out of Med school Docs are not going to be able to apply this technology on a whim...and we're not talking about a pill, or a cream, or a simple injection in the ass.
...and these research companies will not willingly and illegally allow their secrets to fall into the hands of some quacks when they can legally make so much more through the millions of medical patients?...yes, there may be a few who try, and some may even fall through the cracks, but again, as long as there's big money in sports and as long people try to break the law and/or cheat, they will still get sloppy and get caught.



...sorry, but again, I just don't see an army of stem cell induced cyborg-like ball players on the horizon.
 
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yankeesince59 said:
...no one said it would not be used...but as long as there's "greed" someone will get pinched because eventually the buyer/seller will feel they got shorted/ripped off...and as long as there's communication between the buyer and seller there will be a paper trail...(text messages/phone records count too)
...and there's no comparison between supervised post-op stem cell therapy and the hulk like mutations of Bonds and Sosa et al...and the last time I checked, ARod, Kobe, and Tiger are still inactive even though their stem cell treatment was approved by their sport ahead of time, and/or legally administered by a licensed doctor in a controlled atmosphere, not in a back room of a strip mall by some clown with a shady past...sorry, I just don't see the conspiracy theory here.


...this technology is still in it's infancy and is highly advance and secretive, and fresh out of Med school Docs are not going to be able to apply this technology on a whim...and we're not talking about a pill, or a cream, or a simple injection in the ass.
...and these research companies will not willingly and illegally allow their secrets to fall into the hands of some quacks when they can legally make so much more through the millions of medical patients?...yes, there may be a few who try, and some may even fall through the cracks, but again, as long as there's big money in sports and as long people try to break the law and/or cheat, they will still get sloppy and get caught.



...sorry, but again, I just don't see an army of stem cell induced cyborg-like ball players on the horizon.
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Valid points, one I can't dispute.

I keep getting this picture in my head, of Young New Licensed Doctor's, Sports Med, PT's even, looking to establish their new medical practice. With a new potential client/patient, ie, a looming professional athlete as a new client is all it takes to make or break a new practice.....placing a young doctor on the Gravy Train...."money doesn't talk it swears"...no doubt.

"you want what?, not a problem..."
 
deleted stuttering duplication
 
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Mattingly23NY said:
Valid points, one I can't dispute.

I keep getting this picture in my head, of Young New Licensed Doctor's, Sports Med, PT's even, looking to establish their new medical practice. With a new potential client/patient, ie, a looming professional athlete as a new client is all it takes to make or break a new practice.....placing a young doctor on the Gravy Train...."money doesn't talk it swears"...no doubt.

"you want what?, not a problem..."
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You're stuttering again Rob.
 
Rick2583 said:
You're stuttering again Rob.
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Thanks Rick, I'm going to take my PC with me to see a shrink, see if he/she can fix us both from this bad hhha haaa haabbb habbbiiitttt......!

I'm sure they can fix one of us, PC or me, just not sure which one....!
 
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