Nets Nixed Carter Trade to Cleveland

[Netted]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reganomics813 @ Jun 27 2008, 07:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>While you can point to VC's age and say he only has so much left in the tank, that's true with any player at this point in their careers, VC is playing smarter than his competition on a near nightly basis and he now has a chance to help build an ensemble team that could help him sustain it that much longer.

VC chose to stay in NJ, and now he's gonna earn that paycheck. The RJ move was the financial move and this was the basketball move, or non-move if you will.</div>
I don't see it being any harder for VC now than it was last year. We actually have depth now and guys that can shoot!!! Last year it was just Carter and Jefferson. Then Devin came and added a little scoring punch and then for some reason everyone felt they didn't need to play defense anymore.

Now we'll have Lopez who can score in the post, CDR who can slash, Anderson who can shoot, Yi who can shoot, Simmons can score a little. Hopefully Krstic fully recovers now and brings some inside and outside game. Lots of options now.

Guys like Mikki and House did really well here because they could hit open jumpers. If they can gel together and play some team defense we can make the playoffs.

 

[Basileus777]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jun 27 2008, 11:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reganomics813 @ Jun 27 2008, 07:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>While you can point to VC's age and say he only has so much left in the tank, that's true with any player at this point in their careers, VC is playing smarter than his competition on a near nightly basis and he now has a chance to help build an ensemble team that could help him sustain it that much longer.

VC chose to stay in NJ, and now he's gonna earn that paycheck. The RJ move was the financial move and this was the basketball move, or non-move if you will.</div>
I don't see it being any harder for VC now than it was last year. We actually have depth now and guys that can shoot!!! Last year it was just Carter and Jefferson. Then Devin came and added a little scoring punch and then for some reason everyone felt they didn't need to play defense anymore.

Now we'll have Lopez who can score in the post, CDR who can slash, Anderson who can shoot, Yi who can shoot, Simmons can score a little. Hopefully Krstic fully recovers now and brings some inside and outside game. Lots of options now.

Guys like Mikki and House did really well here because they could hit open jumpers. If they can gel together and play some team defense we can make the playoffs.
</div>

Those guys are rookies or 2nd year players. Rookies, even those with a lot of potential, are rarely players you can consistently rely on. Teams are going to double Vince and dare everyone else to beat them. Those 20 ppg RJ gave us are going to be very hard to replace.

 

[danxcr]

thank god rod nixed this trade... cuz i would of cried everytime i saw the nets lose

 

[Netted]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Basileus777 @ Jun 28 2008, 12:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Those guys are rookies or 2nd year players. Rookies, even those with a lot of potential, are rarely players you can consistently rely on. Teams are going to double Vince and dare everyone else to beat them. Those 20 ppg RJ gave us are going to be very hard to replace.</div>
Nets went to the Finals with 3 rookies providing some decent support. Not that we're going to the Finals. There will be a decent mix of vets and youthful enthusiasm when all is said and done.

 

[purplehaze89]

Once the right package comes along where the Nets get future assets (ie. draft picks) and an expiring contract, Vince is as good as gone. He isn't going to demand a king's ransom like J-Kidd but come trade deadline, I guarantee you he is out. Who knows, the Cavs may sweeten the deal later this summer (ie. Wally + 1st rounder + 2nd rounder + pavlovic etc) if their pursuit of B-Diddy doesn't pan out. Carter is exactly what that team needs, a secondary scorer to take pressure off Lebron. They would dominate the East with their inside outside attack. Both LBJ and Carter are post up players.

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jun 28 2008, 12:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Basileus777 @ Jun 28 2008, 12:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Those guys are rookies or 2nd year players. Rookies, even those with a lot of potential, are rarely players you can consistently rely on. Teams are going to double Vince and dare everyone else to beat them. Those 20 ppg RJ gave us are going to be very hard to replace.</div>
Nets went to the Finals with 3 rookies providing some decent support. Not that we're going to the Finals. There will be a decent mix of vets and youthful enthusiasm when all is said and done.
</div>

Sixers got to the playoffs and pushed Detroit to 6 games with a rookie starting, another coming off the bench playing an important part.

Hawks pushed the Champion Celtics to 7 games starting a rookie at center.

Boston had a rookie and a 2nd year player that they relied on off the bench.

New Orleans relied on a rookie and a 2nd year player off the bench.

Detroit relied on Stucky to get them into the ECF.

Houston relied on 2 rookies, one of them starting, to win 21 games and get them into the playoffs.

Not even all of these guys were lottery picks, yet teams were able to rely on them. I wouldn't put it past these rookies to be able to contribute something to this team. Even a 2nd year player - you never know how quickly a player is going to progress.

 

[FOMW]

This team will have a much easier time scoring than the team last year. The additions of Lopez, Yi, Anderson, and CDR alone indicate that. Then factor in a full season and training camp for Devin and the removal of completely one-dimensional guys like Collins and Diop and you won't have many 75 point games. Vince will have an easier time scoring or creating for the team this year than perhaps at any other time since he's been here for the simple reason that there are actually shooters (and undoubtedly will be at least one more) who can capitalize and/or discourage complete collapses.

The problem will be defending, but that's been a problem for the Nets for all of the last two years and parts of the 2 before. I'm not sure how much worse we could be defensively than we were for most of last year, and that definitely includes the team pre Kidd trade.

We've added some different kinds of players to the mix and have certainly gotten longer at most positions. Anderson and Yi are reportedly high BB IQ guys, and I suppose Lopez is supposed to be reasonably intelligent on the court as well. So hopefully this means we have some players that will excel at team defensive concepts. Sean will hopefully show some real growth on both ends, in which case he will see more court time to exploit his fabulous shot blocking. Boone is a very smart player whose defense really improved over the course of the season and who should get a LITTLE more respect from officials as a 3rd year player. And VC played fantastic defense post-trade, and Devin thinks defense is his best asset. CDR has a very good defensive reputation from college.

If we can add a really good wing defender and a defensive-minded backup point (to keep Marcus honest, if he's still here), I do think the Nets can be competitive in a lot of games. The youth will energize the bench and keep the morale high, so long as we don't start 3 and 17. A quick start is vitally important just to stabilize fragile confidence and get these guys believing that it's really worth it to play hard every quarter of every game. If they do that, I think the team will be a lot of fun to watch, even if the playoffs are a pipe dream at this point.

 

[Astral]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FOMW @ Jun 28 2008, 01:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This team will have a much easier time scoring than the team last year. The additions of Lopez, Yi, Anderson, and CDR alone indicate that. Then factor in a full season and training camp for Devin and the removal of completely one-dimensional guys like Collins and Diop and you won't have many 75 point games. Vince will have an easier time scoring or creating for the team this year than perhaps at any other time since he's been here for the simple reason that there are actually shooters (and undoubtedly will be at least one more) who can capitalize and/or discourage complete collapses.

The problem will be defending, but that's been a problem for the Nets for all of the last two years and parts of the 2 before. I'm not sure how much worse we could be defensively than we were for most of last year, and that definitely includes the team pre Kidd trade.

We've added some different kinds of players to the mix and have certainly gotten longer at most positions. Anderson and Yi are reportedly high BB IQ guys, and I suppose Lopez is supposed to be reasonably intelligent on the court as well. So hopefully this means we have some players that will excel at team defensive concepts. Sean will hopefully show some real growth on both ends, in which case he will see more court time to exploit his fabulous shot blocking. Boone is a very smart player whose defense really improved over the course of the season and who should get a LITTLE more respect from officials as a 3rd year player. And VC played fantastic defense post-trade, and Devin thinks defense is his best asset. CDR has a very good defensive reputation from college.

If we can add a really good wing defender and a defensive-minded backup point (to keep Marcus honest, if he's still here), I do think the Nets can be competitive in a lot of games. The youth will energize the bench and keep the morale high, so long as we don't start 3 and 17. A quick start is vitally important just to stabilize fragile confidence and get these guys believing that it's really worth it to play hard every quarter of every game. If they do that, I think the team will be a lot of fun to watch, even if the playoffs are a pipe dream at this point.</div>Every year we say "we will have an easier time scoring". It hasn't exactly happened, at least it hasn't helped the team.

I also disagree about your assessment of our shooting ability. We have NO pure shooters. Here's out roster:
Devin Harris - not a perimeter threat when defenses collapse in the post
Vince Carter - scorer, ball handler
Yi Jianlian - our best mid-range shooter. Not consistent enough. Great form, great elevation.
Nenad Krstic - one of our best shooters... if he comes back fully healed.. mentally and physically.
Josh Boone - putbacks?
Sean Williams - Flashes of brilliance
Stromile Swift - it's the contract year. wouldn't be surprised if Swift started raining threes.
Trenton Hassell - "if the basket is not within my reach don't ask me to shoot"
Marcus Williams - "I have a ball? In my hands?! ...must....shoot.." 38%FG
Maurice Ager - not a shooter
Bobby Simmons - .....
Chris Douglas Roberts - slasher, scorer... but not a shooter
Brook Lopez - can hit an occasional mid-range jumper but inconsistent
Ryan Anderson - a great shooter, but he has so much depth in front of him, and he's a rookie who is raw defensively. Can't see him getting much PT.

 

[Basileus777]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 28 2008, 12:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jun 28 2008, 12:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Basileus777 @ Jun 28 2008, 12:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Those guys are rookies or 2nd year players. Rookies, even those with a lot of potential, are rarely players you can consistently rely on. Teams are going to double Vince and dare everyone else to beat them. Those 20 ppg RJ gave us are going to be very hard to replace.</div>
Nets went to the Finals with 3 rookies providing some decent support. Not that we're going to the Finals. There will be a decent mix of vets and youthful enthusiasm when all is said and done.
</div>

Sixers got to the playoffs and pushed Detroit to 6 games with a rookie starting, another coming off the bench playing an important part.

Hawks pushed the Champion Celtics to 7 games starting a rookie at center.

Boston had a rookie and a 2nd year player that they relied on off the bench.

New Orleans relied on a rookie and a 2nd year player off the bench.

Detroit relied on Stucky to get them into the ECF.

Houston relied on 2 rookies, one of them starting, to win 21 games and get them into the playoffs.

Not even all of these guys were lottery picks, yet teams were able to rely on them. I wouldn't put it past these rookies to be able to contribute something to this team. Even a 2nd year player - you never know how quickly a player is going to progress.
</div>

We aren't just relying on rookies/young players to provide a spark off the bench. Carter, Harris, and maybe Boone are the only proven players on our roster. There is a lot of holes on our roster right now. We have a bunch of unknowns in our frontcourt. Our backcourt is paper thin and unless we acquire someone else, we are likely to be starting the likes of Bobby Simmons or Trenton Hassell.

 

[FOMW]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ Jun 28 2008, 01:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Every year we say "we will have an easier time scoring". It hasn't exactly happened, at least it hasn't helped the team.</div>

I haven't ever said that, so don't hold that one against me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I also disagree about your assessment of our shooting ability. We have NO pure shooters</div>


Disagree. Anderson is a pure shooter by all accounts. I don't know firsthand, of course, because all I can do is watch hilights and read stats. But those who have seen him play rave about his dead eye shooting, especially from long range, and his quick release. Your concerns about the depth in front of him are misplaced. Offensively he will play the 3 for the Nets, even if he guards the opposing 4 in some lineups. He will serve the same role in our offense that Boki did, only he will (presumably) actually hit a decent percentage of open shots.

Yi supposedly does not show great 3-point range yet but is said to be automatic from 20 on pick and pops. Krstic, pre injury and somewhat toward the end of last year, is also a fine pick and pop shooter.

That gives us three well-above average shooters in the front court. And that's not to mention Devin, who has far better mechanics on his shot than Kidd and will likely be a better (or less streaky) shooter next year than Kidd.

I don't know if you noticed, but Marcus Williams 3 point shot really came along last year. He was still plagued by poor shot selection, but his stroke is (and always was) very nice. If he's here, I expect him to make further strides with shot selection and that will make him a very decent shooter.

CDR might not be a great pure shooter, but he's light years ahead of Antoine Wright, and it's Wrights role that he'll be filling, so there's more improvement there.

The other guy to mention is Simmons. I haven't watch him much, so I'm not acquainted with all the ways in which his game has supposedly deteriorated due to injuries the last few years. But he is a 39% 3-point shooter for his career, including two seasons not long ago shooting over 42%. I'll take that from my spot-shooting SF any day of the week.

Ager's best asset is supposedly his sweet stroke (this according to Dave D last year). Who knows if he will ever find a way to do it effectively in games (which would actually require him to PLAY in games), but that is primarily the skill upon which he was drafted into the league.

So there has been a major upgrade to the Nets shooting since the 07-08 season started. And I don't presume that they are finished in that area. I expect them to add at least one more shooter to the roster via FA or trade, probably a combo guard.

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Basileus777 @ Jun 28 2008, 02:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 28 2008, 12:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jun 28 2008, 12:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Basileus777 @ Jun 28 2008, 12:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Those guys are rookies or 2nd year players. Rookies, even those with a lot of potential, are rarely players you can consistently rely on. Teams are going to double Vince and dare everyone else to beat them. Those 20 ppg RJ gave us are going to be very hard to replace.</div>
Nets went to the Finals with 3 rookies providing some decent support. Not that we're going to the Finals. There will be a decent mix of vets and youthful enthusiasm when all is said and done.
</div>

Sixers got to the playoffs and pushed Detroit to 6 games with a rookie starting, another coming off the bench playing an important part.

Hawks pushed the Champion Celtics to 7 games starting a rookie at center.

Boston had a rookie and a 2nd year player that they relied on off the bench.

New Orleans relied on a rookie and a 2nd year player off the bench.

Detroit relied on Stucky to get them into the ECF.

Houston relied on 2 rookies, one of them starting, to win 21 games and get them into the playoffs.

Not even all of these guys were lottery picks, yet teams were able to rely on them. I wouldn't put it past these rookies to be able to contribute something to this team. Even a 2nd year player - you never know how quickly a player is going to progress.
</div>

We aren't just relying on rookies/young players to provide a spark off the bench. Carter, Harris, and maybe Boone are the only proven players on our roster. There is a lot of holes on our roster right now. We have a bunch of unknowns in our frontcourt. Our backcourt is paper thin and unless we acquire someone else, we are likely to be starting the likes of Bobby Simmons or Trenton Hassell.
</div>

We could have a starting lineup with players who are all experienced. And we most likely will. So yes, we are just relying on rookies and young players to come off the bench for us.

 

[reganomics813]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ Jun 28 2008, 01:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Every year we say "we will have an easier time scoring". It hasn't exactly happened, at least it hasn't helped the team.

I also disagree about your assessment of our shooting ability. We have NO pure shooters. Here's out roster:
Devin Harris - not a perimeter threat when defenses collapse in the post
Vince Carter - scorer, ball handler
Yi Jianlian - our best mid-range shooter. Not consistent enough. Great form, great elevation.
Nenad Krstic - one of our best shooters... if he comes back fully healed.. mentally and physically.
Josh Boone - putbacks?
Sean Williams - Flashes of brilliance
Stromile Swift - it's the contract year. wouldn't be surprised if Swift started raining threes.
Trenton Hassell - "if the basket is not within my reach don't ask me to shoot"
Marcus Williams - "I have a ball? In my hands?! ...must....shoot.." 38%FG
Maurice Ager - not a shooter
Bobby Simmons - .....
Chris Douglas Roberts - slasher, scorer... but not a shooter
Brook Lopez - can hit an occasional mid-range jumper but inconsistent
Ryan Anderson - a great shooter, but he has so much depth in front of him, and he's a rookie who is raw defensively. Can't see him getting much PT.</div>

We're building assets and i'm sick of ignorant posters, not your Astral, spewing two lines posts about how we have no shooting without looking at the roster. I agree with the most part about your assessments but I do have a couple comments. Maybe Bobby Simmons does nothing for us, that's a real possibility with his constant state of injury, but if he does play he's a another option that can spot up in the corner and he does play a poor man's RJ game. Anderson, aside from being a rookie, has the same exact package Boki does and can probably get some minutes at the 3, Frank will fall in love with him, count on it. Yi and Brook are big big upgrades from Diop offensively and having two guys who can spot up from midrange gives us the ability to keep that inside outside dynamic on the floor unlike last season where we would have to play Sean and Boone, Boone and Diop, Swift and Diop if Nenad was in foul trouble or injured. If we keep Nenad we have 3 bigs who can spread the floor. If not we still have 2, and that's 1 more than we had last season.

Having "pure shooters" is ridiculous at this point because we need to establish and identity and a team game where we can find out what kind of shooter we're looking for in the first place. The Sixers this past season traded away Korver and actually improved as everyone on that team found an identity and made some real noise with even less outside options than we have now. This is the time where they assess what position they need that shooter at, how will he affect their team dynamic and make the other guys even better. Pure shooters are whip cream on the sundae, not the ice cream. Look at New Orleans, they established a persona while Peja was out. This season they bring back Peja and add Mo Pete and they're devastating.

If we were in the West I would say we need to stack up facing Phoenix and Golden State but really our main concern now needs to be getting to the foul line, especially in the East where low scoring is rampant. Our two main initiators (VC, Devin) are also our two best slashers and that is alot of pressure to put on them. CDR should help out big time and if our bigs are aggressive attacking the hoop a la Boone and Sean we'll get there but the biggest loss we're taking in the RJ deal is the ability to stop the clock and cut into the lead from an aggressive move to the basket.

We are also weak defensively but we have enough active bodies where we can say, go out and play hard or you sit, just trying on the defensive end will be huge upgrades to the revolving door defense we saw from Kidd and RJ the past couple seasons. We can be a scrappy team and Frank will reward those who put forth the effort. Lets just hope it's the new guys who give us those added shooting dimensions. If not we'll look for one at the deadline or next summer.