Nets, the worst team in the east?

[Dumpy]

I agree with a lot that's here, although youth and upside are things that will benefit us in the long term, rather than immediate returns next year. I certainly enjoyed watching the Devin-lead team, although he ended up losing more games than he won, and this was when Vince got healthy.

I mention upside simply because a team with three reserves that could perform anywhere between great and terrible should have a higher expected number of wins than a team with three reserves that are guarranteed to be mediocre. Of course, it is partly up to the coach to identify which of the reserves are "good," and which are "bad" and develop and use them accordingly. I hope that makes sense.

 

[pegs]

Imagine how funny it would be if the Nets somehow ended up being the best team in the East.

And then wake up.

 

[Celtic Fan]

with such a high turnover and so many young players, I don't think anyone can accurately predict how well or poor the Nets will do next year.
This team could fall apart from inexperience up front and get hammered inside or the young guys could hold their own and VC and Harris will prove to be strong enough to carry this team to an 8th seed.

chances are they won't make the playoffs, but won't be an embarassment either.

as for DW saying this team is better than the Hawks... ummm no, sorry not next year (barring injuries of course)

 

[netsking]

The Nets could be the worst team in the east, they have the most question marks going into the season. They will be a lot better than most people think.

Even though i wouldn't want it to be true this may very be true. Other than 2-3 guys on our roster no one else is a proven starter. I do like that we only have one superstar, unlike teams like the Knicks, Bulls and Bobcats where they got good player but no leader. Also in the future Harris can evolve into that guy since he is a good shooter and probably can drive to the hoop and score at will.

 

[Claud]

That's the thing I like about our team right now, noone really knows how good or bad we will be. IMHO we simply cannot be worse than last year and should be much much more fun to watch them play all season long compared to last year ( Ugh ).

We have a very talented and apparently eager to prove everyone wrong as a leader in Vince. Devin Harris should play much better next season as one of the main guys on the team ( Frank will let him play and lead, dont doubt it for a second.) And then comes the fun part...our youngesters. We have Brook who should eventually be our starting C by the end of the season. Ryan Anderson is someone who can play in the post & shoot the lights out for a big man and also play decent D and bang for the boards. CDR is a baller and a winner and he will do his best to help us get the Ws, be it by getting a steal or making a clutch bucket. (lol buckets... get it haha). Then you got 2 amazing prospects with star potential in YI and Swat. They are both freak athletes and should come in much much improved from last year. In the Orlando and Utah summer league, Swat looked more confortable on the court. He didnt look lost like he did on his first year, He was also asking for the ball on the post and was "swishing" them like it was nothing against taller guys(7ft tall!) and you know his defensive awareness will eventually be there hopefully very soon. Yi showed flashes of brilliance in the Olympics but wasnt consistent. That's something he needs to work on if he wants to become a better player. But overall i saw alot of good things from him. He is well adept to guard PFs, can bang for the boards & his offense will be there in Jersey with better distributors on the team.

Bobby is an unknown at this time. From what we know he is a good scorer/shooter and can play decent D ( Dear god please at least better than RJ last year!). He could very well gain form and be a contributor on our team and redeem himself. Then you got Najera/Dooling/Hayes. The one common thing in all three? Positive mentality/Can play defense and shoot the ball. Something we've desperately needed for the past 3-4 years.

What Im saying is that we have a very nice mix of talent/vets that know their roles/potential/enthusiam to be here on the team which can only lead to good things to come. That is why Im really looking foward for the upcoming season and proving all those nay-sayers WRONG!!.

This of course, is just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[netsking]

That's the thing I like about our team right now, noone really knows how good or bad we will be. IMHO we simply cannot be worse than last year and should be much much more fun to watch them play all season long compared to last year ( Ugh ).

We have a very talented and apparently eager to prove everyone wrong as a leader in Vince. Devin Harris should play much better next season as one of the main guys on the team ( Frank will let him play and lead, dont doubt it for a second.) And then comes the fun part...our youngesters. We have Brook who should eventually be our starting C by the end of the season. Ryan Anderson is someone who can play in the post & shoot the lights out for a big man and also play decent D and bang for the boards. CDR is a baller and a winner and he will do his best to help us get the Ws, be it by getting a steal or making a clutch bucket. (lol buckets... get it haha). Then you got 2 amazing prospects with star potential in YI and Swat. They are both freak athletes and should come in much much improved from last year. In the Orlando and Utah summer league, Swat looked more confortable on the court. He didnt look lost like he did on his first year, He was also asking for the ball on the post and was "swishing" them like it was nothing against taller guys(7ft tall!) and you know his defensive awareness will eventually be there hopefully very soon. Yi showed flashes of brilliance in the Olympics but wasnt consistent. That's something he needs to work on if he wants to become a better player. But overall i saw alot of good things from him. He is well adept to guard PFs, can bang for the boards & his offense will be there in Jersey with better distributors on the team.

Bobby is an unknown at this time. From what we know he is a good scorer/shooter and can play decent D ( Dear god please at least better than RJ last year!). He could very well gain form and be a contributor on our team and redeem himself. Then you got Najera/Dooling/Hayes. The one common thing in all three? Positive mentality/Can play defense and shoot the ball. Something we've desperately needed for the past 3-4 years.

What Im saying is that we have a very nice mix of talent/vets that know their roles/potential/enthusiam to be here on the team which can only lead to good things to come. That is why Im really looking foward for the upcoming season and proving all those nay-sayers WRONG!!.

This of course, is just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt.

Well said. For all we know we can have a top 5 in the eastern conference or a bottom feeder looking up. But whichever can be good for us since there are some good players at next years draft.

 

[YehYeh]

That's the thing I like about our team right now, noone really knows how good or bad we will be. ...
What Im saying is that we have a very nice mix of talent/vets that know their roles/potential/enthusiam to be here on the team which can only lead to good things to come. That is why Im really looking foward for the upcoming season and proving all those nay-sayers WRONG!!.

Those out-of-town hacks only read the stats pages where our players don't look good. But stats don't add up to a team with a plan. We have a well-balanced team with few holes. We're going to surprise a lot of folks out there wherever they are.

 

[netsking]

Those out-of-town hacks only read the stats pages where our players don't look good. But stats don't add up to a team with a plan. We have a well-balanced team with few holes. We're going to surprise a lot of folks out there wherever they are.

Ummm i would say we have some huge holes. Think of it this way, who is our starting SF. What about starting center? What about PF? Do we have a backup 2guard with legit 2guard size? We have holes but we have talent. We can fix the holes but you cannot say we have a complete team.

And by the way compare the amount of frontcourt players to backcourt players. Now how many wings do we have. Unbalanced currently but we have talent and it can turn into a good team. We have good trading chips and can balance this team and be competitive.

The most homeristic thing i've heard in a while.

 

[YehYeh]

Not really. What I am saying is that those writers and most fans compare teams player for player. With only two star players and three question marks we look real bad there. But if you notice that all five positions can play D, run and shoot, then that combination becomes very dangerous, because whoever is open can score. No more 2 1/2 offensive players, which is what we've had for the past three years.

 

[pegs]

Ummm i would say we have some huge holes. Think of it this way, who is our starting SF. What about starting center? What about PF? Do we have a backup 2guard with legit 2guard size? We have holes but we have talent. We can fix the holes but you cannot say we have a complete team.

Bobby Simmons is definitely capable of starting. At PF, Yi would do just fine in our offense, and wouldn't kill our defense. And since we don't have anyone better, and he did such a good job last season, we would have Boone at the center. The backup "2guard" with legit "2guard" size could be Hayes or CDR, most likely Hayes, though. Hell, Keyon's better defensively than most "2guards" in the league. And offensively adept, too.

The biggest problem we have is a a lack of a legit backup natural point guard, someone like Anthony Johnson, Brevin Knight, etc.

 

[DynastYWarrioR6]

with such a high turnover and so many young players, I don't think anyone can accurately predict how well or poor the Nets will do next year.
This team could fall apart from inexperience up front and get hammered inside or the young guys could hold their own and VC and Harris will prove to be strong enough to carry this team to an 8th seed.

chances are they won't make the playoffs, but won't be an embarassment either.

as for DW saying this team is better than the Hawks... ummm no, sorry not next year (barring injuries of course)

I don't think having the Nets above the Hawks is necessarily out of the question. I forget what I wrote in my initial post, but I do feel like the Nets have the opportunity to pass the Hawks record-wise next year, granted this is contingent on a WHOLE lot of thing (injuries, your usual one player improvement from previous year, etc.) I just personally think that losing Childress will hurt them more than most people think. You have a disgruntled Josh Smith, and a coach, who so far, hasn't been able to get all these guys together. I think Frank actually has the ability to get this team together and win some games....

At least more than 38 wins...it's not really out of the question.

 

[kdub]

Bobby Simmons is definitely capable of starting. At PF, Yi would do just fine in our offense, and wouldn't kill our defense. And since we don't have anyone better, and he did such a good job last season, we would have Boone at the center. The backup "2guard" with legit "2guard" size could be Hayes or CDR, most likely Hayes, though. Hell, Keyon's better defensively than most "2guards" in the league. And offensively adept, too.

The biggest problem we have is a a lack of a legit backup natural point guard, someone like Anthony Johnson, Brevin Knight, etc.

If Frank can stagger Harris' and Vince's minutes correctly so neither of them are out too long, Vince can be the third "PG". When Harris sits, replace him with a shooter like Jarvis, Simmons, or Ager. Then run a zone defense to help keep the opposing point guard from penetrating. Put a lot of shooters around Vince and running a pick and pop, or posting him up for the kick out should be effective enough while Harris is out.

Or we Frank can just sub in Dooling (that's why we got him right?) for the SG spot and move Vince to the point, at least on offense.

 

[Dumpy]

People are underestimating the importance of a strong, deep bench. It is a long season. The way I see it (in simplistic terms), the Nets have downgraded their former "big three" in exchange for a deeper bench and more consistent defense. I really think they'll be fine. It's not as if they had a better center last year--one could easily argue that they upgraded there.

 

[Celtic Fan]

People are underestimating the importance of a strong, deep bench. It is a long season. The way I see it (in simplistic terms), the Nets have downgraded their former "big three" in exchange for a deeper bench and more consistent defense. I really think they'll be fine. It's not as if they had a better center last year--one could easily argue that they upgraded there.

a deep bench never beats talent in the NBA. Not in the playoffs anyways.

 

[reganomics813]

a deep bench never beats talent in the NBA. Not in the playoffs anyways.

But realistically we're not talking playoffs. During the grind of an 82 game season solid bench depth will help you win games you may not other wise. We're rebuilding from scratch essentially and we're collecting a group of guys who can come together as a team. Yes we're gonna be seeing the wrong end of the talent matchup on most nights but if our teams comes with the effort Frank is trying to instill defensively we could be very competitive where the visitors don't get the easy W, they'll have to earn them. And really at this point that is all we should reasonably ask.

If we can put together a unit like the Bulls and the Warriors first round upset teams did, one with a strong team mentality and pesky defense, and learn from their mistakes to build from it that's all we need from this season. It's all about building a solid foundation at this point.

 

[Celtic Fan]

But realistically we're not talking playoffs. During the grind of an 82 game season solid bench depth will help you win games you may not other wise. We're rebuilding from scratch essentially and we're collecting a group of guys who can come together as a team. Yes we're gonna be seeing the wrong end of the talent matchup on most nights but if our teams comes with the effort Frank is trying to instill defensively we could be very competitive where the visitors don't get the easy W, they'll have to earn them. And really at this point that is all we should reasonably ask.

If we can put together a unit like the Bulls and the Warriors first round upset teams did, one with a strong team mentality and pesky defense, and learn from their mistakes to build from it that's all we need from this season. It's all about building a solid foundation at this point.

very true, and that means the team will most likely be one of the 3 worst teams in the East next year.
but if Frank is patient and keeps the team upbeat and playing hard, it will make a huge difference in a year or two.. and we all know what Cavs.. I mean Nets fans are praying for in 2 years

 

[reganomics813]

very true, and that means the team will most likely be one of the 3 worst teams in the East next year.
but if Frank is patient and keeps the team upbeat and playing hard, it will make a huge difference in a year or two.. and we all know what Cavs.. I mean Nets fans are praying for in 2 years

Being a Celtic fan you're quite familiar with rebuilding and what happens when you build a nice base of young players. One free argent signing or bundling some of that younger talent for a trade can make all the difference in the world.

 

[Celtic Fan]

yeah but if you get one or two with an over inflated sense of value, it can either ruin a salary cap or you lose talent for nothing.

Look at the Bulls fiasco.

It's a tight rope to watch nowadays, young talent is not guaranteed to stay with your team once they develop.
I just Hope Frank doesn't micro-manage the team too much and lets them run a bit and gain experience.
Playing like the Cavs did under Mike Fratello would be worse than being last in the East IMO.

 

[reganomics813]

Now that's the truth, you can't blame a guy for getting what he feels he's worth but Ben and Luol are friggin' delusional.

We just need a team who gives a consistent effort unlike the BS we've been watching the past couple seasons. My biggest fear is that we have too many options for Frank to juggle but really this is a fresh start for the coaching staff as much as it is for the players on the team.

 

[Celtic Fan]

I wonder if it's worth it to keep Vince around though? Think he could be mid-season trade bate for a contender? When this team is ready to contend he'll be about Dun.
load up on some top draft picks or some more cap space?

of course that was the thoughts in Celtic-land last year with Paul, but BLAMMO that changed quick. I don't even care if the C's are crummy again in 3 years, they won a title so trading away Big Al and anyone else was worth it.

 

[NJQuestCat]

I'm new to this board...it seems like the best Nets Message Board online!

LETS GO NETS!!!!!

 

[GMJ]

I'm new to this board...it seems like the best Nets Message Board online!

LETS GO NETS!!!!!

Welcome to the board! Feel free to send me a PM if you have any questions about the site.

 

[NJQuestCat]

Thanks alot man...really appreciate it...

It seems like people on this board are real inviting. good stuff.

 

[soul driver]

always great to see a new poster, especially a Nets fan!
welcome aboard, and it's great to see your passion for our team. always a plus!

 

[reganomics813]

I wonder if it's worth it to keep Vince around though? Think he could be mid-season trade bate for a contender? When this team is ready to contend he'll be about Dun.
load up on some top draft picks or some more cap space?

of course that was the thoughts in Celtic-land last year with Paul, but BLAMMO that changed quick. I don't even care if the C's are crummy again in 3 years, they won a title so trading away Big Al and anyone else was worth it.

I know there is going to be some doubt to whether Vince can carry a team for the next couple seasons and just how much he has in the tank, and lets be honest he's no spring chicken, but when you get right down to it there are only a handful of players as talented as he is in the entire league. Some will point to his off an on play at times during the season but they tend to fail to see just how much responsibility we have saddled him with the past few years. Add in a less than comfortable locker room and as much as we want them to power though and be professionals it does take it's toll. Luckily we have infused ourselves with some hard workers with some fresh legs and a highly competitive attitude and I think we'll all be surprised as to jut how much that will perk up his play.

As far as a trade goes, the way we are currently constructed we need that one player to channel our offense through and the only person capable of doing that is Vince. He is the piece that keeps us from looking entirely like a expansion just team coming into the league and the LeBron dreams alive IMO. Our team has a good number of unproven players and no true PG and without him we would be without question the last place team in the East. I really wouldn't be surprised to see VC here by 2010 but then again things do happen. Is it in the immediate plans? I really don't think so.

 

[DynastYWarrioR6]

I'm new to this board...it seems like the best Nets Message Board online!

LETS GO NETS!!!!!

Welcome to S2! Feel free to post whereever you like and have a great time! If you have any questions, feel free to PM me or any other member of the staff here. Again, enjoy!

*Become a Rockets or Lakers fan while you're at it

 

[YehYeh]

I know there is going to be some doubt to whether Vince can carry a team for the next couple seasons and just how much he has in the tank, and lets be honest he's no spring chicken, but when you get right down to it there are only a handful of players as talented as he is in the entire league.
...
As far as a trade goes, the way we are currently constructed we need that one player to channel our offense through and the only person capable of doing that is Vince.

You're right on target, I think. If we really follow up on the Memphis DDM offense, then VC is the only proven talent on the team who can consistently break down his man, drive, then dish or swish. I hope Devin and Keyon can, but we'll just have to see. The forwards can drive on the baseline, but from there their options are more limited.

All the same, at midseason I would not be surprised to see VC go to a contender for value. This is the main reason why we need another PG. But seemingly every other team is looking for one. Dunno. If VC goes, we will lose.

 

[AhLian]

I know there is going to be some doubt to whether Vince can carry a team for the next couple seasons and just how much he has in the tank, and lets be honest he's no spring chicken, but when you get right down to it there are only a handful of players as talented as he is in the entire league. Some will point to his off an on play at times during the season but they tend to fail to see just how much responsibility we have saddled him with the past few years. Add in a less than comfortable locker room and as much as we want them to power though and be professionals it does take it's toll. Luckily we have infused ourselves with some hard workers with some fresh legs and a highly competitive attitude and I think we'll all be surprised as to jut how much that will perk up his play.

As far as a trade goes, the way we are currently constructed we need that one player to channel our offense through and the only person capable of doing that is Vince. He is the piece that keeps us from looking entirely like a expansion just team coming into the league and the LeBron dreams alive IMO. Our team has a good number of unproven players and no true PG and without him we would be without question the last place team in the East. I really wouldn't be surprised to see VC here by 2010 but then again things do happen. Is it in the immediate plans? I really don't think so.

Why would the Nets use Vince to carry them? We aren't even in a winning mentality right now so we don't need anybody to carry. These next few years is about developing youngsters with Vince as a mentor, not as an attempt to duplicate Kobe.

 

[Celtic Fan]

I know there is going to be some doubt to whether Vince can carry a team for the next couple seasons and just how much he has in the tank, and lets be honest he's no spring chicken, but when you get right down to it there are only a handful of players as talented as he is in the entire league. Some will point to his off an on play at times during the season but they tend to fail to see just how much responsibility we have saddled him with the past few years. Add in a less than comfortable locker room and as much as we want them to power though and be professionals it does take it's toll. Luckily we have infused ourselves with some hard workers with some fresh legs and a highly competitive attitude and I think we'll all be surprised as to jut how much that will perk up his play.

As far as a trade goes, the way we are currently constructed we need that one player to channel our offense through and the only person capable of doing that is Vince. He is the piece that keeps us from looking entirely like a expansion just team coming into the league and the LeBron dreams alive IMO. Our team has a good number of unproven players and no true PG and without him we would be without question the last place team in the East. I really wouldn't be surprised to see VC here by 2010 but then again things do happen. Is it in the immediate plans? I really don't think so.

The real question in my mind is, does Vince want to take on the 'babysitter' role of a rebuilding team? Is he happy getting his shots and not winning? Or will he start to pout and make like most NBA 'stars' and want to 'play for a winner?'
That's what will be interesting about the Nets this year, beyond the development of the young players.

 

[reganomics813]

Why would the Nets use Vince to carry them? We aren't even in a winning mentality right now so we don't need anybody to carry. These next few years is about developing youngsters with Vince as a mentor, not as an attempt to duplicate Kobe.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not talking about Vince going out and trying to score 40 every night i'm talking about the attention he commands on the court. He's the one person on this roster who necessitates a double team and luckily for us he's pretty damn good at making the right decisions out of it. We may not be realistically looking at the playoffs but we do need to build a base to work from and without a guy like Vince on this team the growth of these youngsters will take that much longer because Devin is not the kinda guy who can lead a team a la Chris Paul.

Simply put Vince makes Devin and everyone else on our team that much more dangerous. His scoring, decision making, ability to get to the line and make them, and leadership he brings are things we just can't replace nor get fair value for at this time. If the Wally for VC trade happened we'd be in deep trouble and nowhere near where we want to be by the time 2010 rolls around.

The real question in my mind is, does Vince want to take on the 'babysitter' role of a rebuilding team? Is he happy getting his shots and not winning? Or will he start to pout and make like most NBA 'stars' and want to 'play for a winner?'
That's what will be interesting about the Nets this year, beyond the development of the young players.

Every player gets the itch to play for a contender and VC is no different. Thing is, he also showed up to our Orlando Summer League games and was in the huddle, giving pointers, and cheering our new kids on and frankly that's something we've never seen out of Kidd at any point and time when he was our leader. While it may not tell the whole story, it does give me a whole lot of faith in Vince that he's going to atleast give it a damn good try. He's said nothing but positive stuff about all of our acquisitions and, while the Nets normally tow the company line when it comes to interviews, I genuinely believe his optimism for our young kids and that he's willing to take on the challenge because I think he sees the potential to surprise people as well.

This guy has busted his butt for us since day one and we have shown him the love back by giving him a deal nobody else even considered. Ratner and Frank love him and Rod knows just how important he is to help transition this team so I really don't think we're going to have a repeat of what happened in Toronto. Vince has seen firsthand that whining does not pressure our front office into making a move unless we get something worthwhile back. Unlike the past few seasons this team has a real positive energy to it, especially adding a great peacekeeper in Najera, with essentially every player in that locker room looking to him as the star. I know winning a ring is the ultimate goal of any player but at this stage in his career there really isn't a situation like ours where he'll be the man to this degree and I think that is something that will pacify him during the rough times.