New 9/11 Photos Released

[Denny Crane]

 

[MrJayremmie]

That's pretty surreal.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

Wow.

 

[Shooter]

Absolutely amazing. I'm still shocked that those buildings fell straight down instead of sideways.

I'm sitting in midtown Manhattan as I write this . . .

 

[Colonel Ronan]

It looks scarier from this angle.

Absolutely amazing. I'm still shocked that those buildings fell straight down instead of sideways.

Yeah, it doesn't make any sense...

 

[CelticKing]

So why did they wait this long to release them?

 

[Wheels]

wow. So terrifying for anyone there. I am going to NYC for a while this summer just to visit. I absolutely love that city.

 

[THE HCP]

Unreal. Still blows me away that this happened. My first time to ground zero was about 3 years after it happened and my wife and I were speechless. It was completely quiet there. Very eerie.

 

[Wheels]

Unreal. Still blows me away that this happened. My first time to ground zero was about 3 years after it happened and my wife and I were speechless. It was completely quiet there. Very eerie.

exactly.. it totally blew me away. Everything in that city is full of people talking and noise but for a few blocks its just SILENT. It was in 04 when I went, so probably around the time you did. It was just like a giant graveyard with the eerie silence.

 

[The Professional Fan]

Just reminds me how much I want those mother fucking terrorists to fucking die a horrible and dishonorable death. Fucking bastards.

 

[maxiep]

Absolutely amazing. I'm still shocked that those buildings fell straight down instead of sideways.

I'm sitting in midtown Manhattan as I write this . . .

That's how they were designed.

Those were some tough photos for me to look at as friends of mine were trapped in each tower. Some of that dust was them.

 

[jlprk]

I'm still shocked that those buildings fell straight down instead of sideways.

It's possible, I've seen it several times. Although Przybilla and Oden fell sideways, the Wicked Witch of the West melted vertically into a black pile with her conical hat left on top. Dorothy had just discovered that water was her Kryptonite.

That's how they were designed.

Actually, they were designed not to crumple at all, up to a Boeing 707. But these planes were larger, so the design doesn't explain the vertical fall. What matters is that many other skyscrapers have been well-designed but none have fallen down from earthquakes, many of which have been more powerful than a plane.

 

[NJNetz]

Actually, they were designed not to crumple at all, up to a Boeing 707. But these planes were larger, so the design doesn't explain the vertical fall. What matters is that many other skyscrapers have been well-designed but none have fallen down from earthquakes, many of which have been more powerful than a plane.

And there rises the argument of a controlled demolition.

 

[maxiep]

Actually, they were designed not to crumple at all, up to a Boeing 707. But these planes were larger, so the design doesn't explain the vertical fall. What matters is that many other skyscrapers have been well-designed but none have fallen down from earthquakes, many of which have been more powerful than a plane.

A couple of issues with that analysis.

First, the 707 calculation wasn't done full of airplane fuel. It stood up to the impact of the aircraft. It couldn't stand up to the heat generated by the fire once the insulation was blown off.

Second, the steel weakened due to heat (it didn't have to melt). The floors then pancaked. Each successive floor driven by gravity added more and more weight, accelerating the pancaking process.

And there rises the argument of a controlled demolition.

There was no controlled demolition. That's tinfoil hat bullshit.

 

[tlongII]

A couple of issues with that analysis.

First, the 707 calculation wasn't done full of airplane fuel. It stood up to the impact of the aircraft. It couldn't stand up to the heat generated by the fire once the insulation was blown off.

Second, the steel weakened due to heat (it didn't have to melt). The floors then pancaked. Each successive floor driven by gravity added more and more weight, accelerating the pancaking process.




There was no controlled demolition. That's tinfoil hat bullshit.

Absolutely correct! These conspiracy nuts get on my nerves sometimes...

 

[CelticKing]

A couple of issues with that analysis.

First, the 707 calculation wasn't done full of airplane fuel. It stood up to the impact of the aircraft. It couldn't stand up to the heat generated by the fire once the insulation was blown off.

Second, the steel weakened due to heat (it didn't have to melt). The floors then pancaked. Each successive floor driven by gravity added more and more weight, accelerating the pancaking process.




There was no controlled demolition. That's tinfoil hat bullshit.

But the weight of those floors being affected (melting, whatever) wasn't big enough to take down the whole damn building or was it? I still believe there was something else going on here. Not going to say govt, could have been terrorist, foreign agencies, etc.

 

[Colonel Ronan]

But the weight of those floors being affected (melting, whatever) wasn't big enough to take down the whole damn building or was it? I still believe there was something else going on here. Not going to say govt, could have been terrorist, foreign agencies, etc.

I'll say government then.

 

[barfo]

I'll say government then.

More specifically, it was the BLM.

barfo

 

[maxiep]

But the weight of those floors being affected (melting, whatever) wasn't big enough to take down the whole damn building or was it? I still believe there was something else going on here. Not going to say govt, could have been terrorist, foreign agencies, etc.

:shakes head:

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

I think we can all agree that the real tragedy here is that the photographer's last name is Semendinger.

911 nvr 4get

 

[Denny Crane]

These two pictures, in particular, are solid evidence that fires burning for a long time on a full floor (and above) would have weakened the supports.

 

[MARIS61]

These two pictures, in particular, are solid evidence that fires burning for a long time on a full floor (and above) would have weakened the supports.

And my avatar is solid evidence that I swam the English Channel. Backwards. Twice.

Think hard now. Fire, and heat, rises. Supports = beneath fire.

I grew up in a fire hall, and half my family are/were firemen.

They all say it's impossible, and they went to college to study the properties and characteristics of fire, structures, and everything that could possibly happen when the two mix.

But thanks for playing.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

Conspiracy or not, the neocons got the Pearl Harbor they wanted.

 

[jlprk]

the 707 calculation wasn't done full of airplane fuel. It stood up to the impact of the aircraft. It couldn't stand up to the heat generated by the fire once the insulation was blown off.

The building design was marketed as having been tested to withstand a Boeing 707 strike. If the inevitable fire was left out of the test, the test was criminally negligent or fraudulent. Any company which located an office there based upon the misinformation would sue. The original designers are alive and have been interviewed post-9/11. Yet I don't see anyone suing them over the airplane claim. So I wonder whether your information is true.

Absolutely correct! These conspiracy nuts get on my nerves sometimes...

Conspiracy nuts are worse when they represent a political party, because their fundraising abilities are in the hundreds of millions of dollars. The Republican Party sent out letters saying that the Democrats' health insurance plan would create death panels. Then their proto-Tea Bag heads flooded the nonsense into informational meetings set up by congressmen. Every day, conservative Glen Beck makes up a couple of new conspiracies on his show. How do you feel about such conservative conspiracy theorists? I won't even mention the WMDs that Saddam had according to the official Bush conspiracy theory.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

707, controlled demolition, fires, conspiracy theories.

I think most is of this are just giant smoke screens from really looking at what happened on and before 9/11.

My problem on what with 9/11 is this. In talking with friends who are both professional and amateur pilots the actual impacts into the WTC and Pentagon is what is truly amazing. To be able to hit those targets on what is to be the terrorists first and only attempt with the level of training they received is.... well unbelievable. To receive only limited training in small planes and then be able to control, aim and crash a jetliner flying at max speed into a preselected target is a hell of an accomplishment.

All I'm asking for is to take 100 random people and give them the same training that the 9/11 Commission says the hijackers received and then put them in a professional jet flight simulator and see if they can hit the WTC and Pentagon on their first try. If 80% can do it successfully then I believe the "official version". But if 50% or less can't do it and hit something else then I think we have a real problem.

I have two friends who are commercial pilots, they both said that even if you could fly a Cessna perfectly and had read every manual and book on the workings of a cockpit in a commercial airliner there is no way that you can accomplish what the terrorists did. Sure, they guide a plane and hit a city. But to pick out specific buildings, even if they were some of the largest buildings the world is next to impossible. They believe that the pilots would had to have had training in commercial airliners.

Except here's the problem, the hijackers didn't receive training in airliners in the USA, only small planes. I wonder if there was anywhere else they could have received training in flying commercial jet aircraft closer to their homes? Oops, the only commercial jet training program in the middle east happens to be in Saudi Arabia. Run by the Saudi air force. And, they won't disclose who has received training there.

I'm not saying that the Saudi Arabian government was behind 9/11. They're not that dumb and don't have any real motive but considering that the hijackers where here under Saudi passports and their leader is a Saudi national if it had come to light that the hijackers received their training in Saudi Arabia I think the American public would have rather wanted to see us there vs Iraq no matter if the Saudi government was behind it or not.

Like I said, it would be fascinating to see what the results would be if we reenacted that one part of 9/11.

 

[Denny Crane]

It's really easy in a flight simulator to crash into specific buildings. It was clear that the hijackers were able to hit the upper floors of those two massive buildings.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

It's really easy in a flight simulator to crash into specific buildings. It was clear that the hijackers were able to hit the upper floors of those two massive buildings.

And you think they were able to do this with the only training they received was the small plane training they had in the US?

And Denny I'm not talking Microsoft's or Google's flight sim programs that you run on your computer. I'm talking about the flight sims that Boeing and the airlines use.

 

[maxiep]

The building design was marketed as having been tested to withstand a Boeing 707 strike. If the inevitable fire was left out of the test, the test was criminally negligent or fraudulent. Any company which located an office there based upon the misinformation would sue. The original designers are alive and have been interviewed post-9/11. Yet I don't see anyone suing them over the airplane claim. So I wonder whether your information is true.

You may wonder all you wish. I'll just say I have a fair bit of experience and exposure with commercial leases and any tenant that sued on that basis would have that case thrown out of court. This incident was an act of madmen and not something that could have been predicted. The bottom line is that both buildings stood long enough to be evacuated.

Conspiracy nuts are worse when they represent a political party, because their fundraising abilities are in the hundreds of millions of dollars. The Republican Party sent out letters saying that the Democrats' health insurance plan would create death panels. Then their proto-Tea Bag heads flooded the nonsense into informational meetings set up by congressmen. Every day, conservative Glen Beck makes up a couple of new conspiracies on his show. How do you feel about such conservative conspiracy theorists? I won't even mention the WMDs that Saddam had according to the official Bush conspiracy theory.

Non-sequitor alert.

 

[jlprk]

Let's say I read the brochure of the WTC building. It brags that the building was designed to withstand a Boeing 707 hit. I rent there. I suffer damages on 9/11. Why can't I sue? Because the brochure doesn't stand up in court? Because the collision promise is in the brochure, but not in the lease contract?

But that's a normal lease. This was an event that transcends lease theory. A court would not hold the lease contract to the normal rules. Even if you think it would, there's a chance it wouldn't, so at least one of the tenants would sue, just to find out. You say they would probably lose, but it's worth trying in order to be sure. So even if they will probably lose the lawsuit, why has no one sued over the airplane promise, if the testing did not include fire damage?

Maybe because the testing included fire damage, so that's not the reason the building collapsed?

 

[barfo]

707, controlled demolition, fires, conspiracy theories.

I think most is of this are just giant smoke screens from really looking at what happened on and before 9/11.

My problem on what with 9/11 is this. In talking with friends who are both professional and amateur pilots the actual impacts into the WTC and Pentagon is what is truly amazing. To be able to hit those targets on what is to be the terrorists first and only attempt with the level of training they received is.... well unbelievable. To receive only limited training in small planes and then be able to control, aim and crash a jetliner flying at max speed into a preselected target is a hell of an accomplishment.

All I'm asking for is to take 100 random people and give them the same training that the 9/11 Commission says the hijackers received and then put them in a professional jet flight simulator and see if they can hit the WTC and Pentagon on their first try. If 80% can do it successfully then I believe the "official version". But if 50% or less can't do it and hit something else then I think we have a real problem.

I have two friends who are commercial pilots, they both said that even if you could fly a Cessna perfectly and had read every manual and book on the workings of a cockpit in a commercial airliner there is no way that you can accomplish what the terrorists did. Sure, they guide a plane and hit a city. But to pick out specific buildings, even if they were some of the largest buildings the world is next to impossible. They believe that the pilots would had to have had training in commercial airliners.

Except here's the problem, the hijackers didn't receive training in airliners in the USA, only small planes. I wonder if there was anywhere else they could have received training in flying commercial jet aircraft closer to their homes? Oops, the only commercial jet training program in the middle east happens to be in Saudi Arabia. Run by the Saudi air force. And, they won't disclose who has received training there.

I'm not saying that the Saudi Arabian government was behind 9/11. They're not that dumb and don't have any real motive but considering that the hijackers where here under Saudi passports and their leader is a Saudi national if it had come to light that the hijackers received their training in Saudi Arabia I think the American public would have rather wanted to see us there vs Iraq no matter if the Saudi government was behind it or not.

Like I said, it would be fascinating to see what the results would be if we reenacted that one part of 9/11.

It's an interesting conspiracy theory, but it overlooks the fact that the hijackers apparently trained on airline sims here in the u-s-of-a. For example...

December 29-30, 2000—ATTA and AL-SHEHHI train at a cost of $1500 on the Boeing 727 simulator belonging to Simcenter, Inc., at Opa-Locka Airport outside Miami. Each spends about 90 minutes per day on the simulator, which has controls similar to that of a 767. They seem more interested in simply flying the plane and doing turns than in takeoffs or landings. CT 9/17/01 The simulator has the topography of New York City stored in it. “It’s an absolute possibility that (the terrorists) went out and rented a simulator and practiced running into the World Trade Center. What we used to do when we had a couple of spare minutes in our training session, we’d aim the airplane between the towers, or under the Golden Gate Bridge,” a former commercial pilot said. “San Francisco, London, L.A. and Hong Kong –- they’re all replicated.” The two men knew enough, a trainer said, to steer an airplane into a building. LAT 9/27/01

barfo