Politics New study: Trump's Electoral College win was no fluke — and is likely to happen again

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e_blazer said:
Young? I’ll be 67 in a couple of months. Maybe that’s younger than you, but I have a fair amount of miles on the ol’chassis.

Ignorant? Well we all would have to admit that we all are on some issues if we could lay pride aside. I think my general knowledge of current events is pretty good, but please feel free to share your wisdom with me anytime you want. (Not that you seem to be bashful about doing so anyway.)

I don’t give a rodent’s rump about anything Trump said in the last election. I’m simply pointing out that coming up with a positive economic message for that section of the country couldn’t hurt the Democratic candidate’s chances.
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Hard to believe.

And no, you were addressing your remark directly at me.
 
Lanny said:
Hard to believe.

And no, you were addressing your remark directly at me.
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Good grief, Lanny. I guess we need some sort of a flow chart to this conversation because you seem to be working pretty hard to be offended by it.

1. Julius posted a statement that the Dems would win in the Midwest if they actually campaigned there.

2. I responded to his post saying that it depends on the message they put forth there as to how effective it would be. Regional differences in employment, education, and political makeup mean that Midwest Dems aren't as likely to be as gung-ho on climate change proposals that could take even more jobs away from their areas as people on the coasts are. They're also more conservative on economic and social issues than folks on the coasts are.

3. Julius said that the "middle of the country has to understand that many of those jobs are never coming back and "promising" their return is pointless." I responded that that message would be likely to result in Trump winning again.

4. Julius said, "So basically what you're saying is, lie to and con the voters."

5. I posted my response saying that, no, what I was saying is that the Democrats need to come up with a message and platform that can actually help boost the economy of the Midwest. I gave a few ideas off the top of my head as to what that could include.

6. You jumped in, quoting my last response to Julius stating, "It's not offering a hope to people when you either offer a lie or something vitually (sic) impossible." I took that to mean that you were actually replying to what I'd written about the Dems coming up with an economic plan for the Midwest, since you quoted me after all. So I responded with the comment about you apparently writing off the Midwest's economy. You later edited your post to list a bunch of things that Trump has failed to carry out, which had zero to do with my post, but makes more clear now that you meant your comment to apply to Trump's broken promises.

7. You got pissed off.

8. I got pissed off back at you.

9. We both think Trump's an a-hole, so what the heck are we squabbling about? We undoubtedly disagree on many things, but not on that.
 
e_blazer said:
Good grief, Lanny. I guess we need some sort of a flow chart to this conversation because you seem to be working pretty hard to be offended by it.

1. Julius posted a statement that the Dems would win in the Midwest if they actually campaigned there.

2. I responded to his post saying that it depends on the message they put forth there as to how effective it would be. Regional differences in employment, education, and political makeup mean that Midwest Dems aren't as likely to be as gung-ho on climate change proposals that could take even more jobs away from their areas as people on the coasts are. They're also more conservative on economic and social issues than folks on the coasts are.

3. Julius said that the "middle of the country has to understand that many of those jobs are never coming back and "promising" their return is pointless." I responded that that message would be likely to result in Trump winning again.

4. Julius said, "So basically what you're saying is, lie to and con the voters."

5. I posted my response saying that, no, what I was saying is that the Democrats need to come up with a message and platform that can actually help boost the economy of the Midwest. I gave a few ideas off the top of my head as to what that could include.

6. You jumped in, quoting my last response to Julius stating, "It's not offering a hope to people when you either offer a lie or something vitually (sic) impossible." I took that to mean that you were actually replying to what I'd written about the Dems coming up with an economic plan for the Midwest, since you quoted me after all. So I responded with the comment about you apparently writing off the Midwest's economy. You later edited your post to list a bunch of things that Trump has failed to carry out, which had zero to do with my post, but makes more clear now that you meant your comment to apply to Trump's broken promises.

7. You got pissed off.

8. I got pissed off back at you.

9. We both think Trump's an a-hole, so what the heck are we squabbling about? We undoubtedly disagree on many things, but not on that.
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I'm going to drop this because it's no longer productive.
However, your post was addressed to me and it was in error. That's all I have to say on the matter. Now, I need to turn my attention to something productive which may very well include you. I'm not one to hold a grudge.
 
Lanny said:
I'm going to drop this because it's no longer productive.
However, your post was addressed to me and it was in error. That's all I have to say on the matter. Now, I need to turn my attention to something productive which may very well include you. I'm not one to hold a grudge.
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There's literally nothing to be dropped. This was a disagreement about less than nothing. My response to you was in error because your reply to me was ambiguous and not really relevant to the conversation I was having with Julius.

In other words, about par for the OT section.
 
julius said:
True. but the middle of the country has to understand that many of those jobs are never coming back and "promising" their return is pointless.
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Nope!
They do not need to understand. Everyone that wants a job now has one. Enough jobs came back to make it happen.
 
e_blazer said:
3. Julius said that the "middle of the country has to understand that many of those jobs are never coming back and "promising" their return is pointless." I responded that that message would be likely to result in Trump winning again.

4. Julius said, "So basically what you're saying is, lie to and con the voters."

5. I posted my response saying that, no, what I was saying is that the Democrats need to come up with a message and platform that can actually help boost the economy of the Midwest. I gave a few ideas off the top of my head as to what that could include.
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I think this part of the conversation was misunderstandings.

I don't think Julius was saying that Midwesterners need to understand they'll never ever have jobs again. I think he was saying that they need to understand the old-timey manufacturing jobs that were once plentiful aren't coming back.

That isn't at odds with what you were proposing, actually.

barfo
 
riverman said:
My biggest fear is that Biden gets the nomination against him...too much Hillary baggage there and Obamacare rebellion ….too much stumbling on Joe's part to draw the crossover vote.
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Biden is a guaranteed loss. Dem establishment HAS to stop abandoning their progressive voters for what are essentially moderate Republicans (Biden, Harris, Hillary, etc.). When I see the utterly ridiculous things the Democratic establishment mouthpieces are saying I almost think there’s a conspiracy to get Donald Trump re-elected. It’s that bad. I even know a ton of conservative-leaning people (imagine that) that would be willing to skip right over all the centrists and vote for Bernie or Tulsi or Yang over Trump. The centrist fake progressive Democrats won’t get those crossover votes. They just won’t.
 
the DNC nomination is Warren's to lose. And she'll fuck it up somehow.
 
jonnyboy said:
Biden is a guaranteed loss. Dem establishment HAS to stop abandoning their progressive voters for what are essentially moderate Republicans (Biden, Harris, Hillary, etc.). When I see the utterly ridiculous things the Democratic establishment mouthpieces are saying I almost think there’s a conspiracy to get Donald Trump re-elected. It’s that bad. I even know a ton of conservative-leaning people (imagine that) that would be willing to skip right over all the centrists and vote for Bernie or Tulsi or Yang over Trump. The centrist fake progressive Democrats won’t get those crossover votes. They just won’t.
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Yet Biden is the favorite among Democrats, Independents and Republicans for the Democratic nomination. Kind of looks like a steam roller. Not my first choice but he appears to be the people's choice.
 
jonnyboy said:
Biden is a guaranteed loss. Dem establishment HAS to stop abandoning their progressive voters for what are essentially moderate Republicans (Biden, Harris, Hillary, etc.). When I see the utterly ridiculous things the Democratic establishment mouthpieces are saying I almost think there’s a conspiracy to get Donald Trump re-elected. It’s that bad. I even know a ton of conservative-leaning people (imagine that) that would be willing to skip right over all the centrists and vote for Bernie or Tulsi or Yang over Trump. The centrist fake progressive Democrats won’t get those crossover votes. They just won’t.
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I am not convinced your experience is typical of the broader electorate. Bernie Tulsi Yang aren't even that popular among Democrats.

barfo
 
Lanny said:
Yet Biden is the favorite among Democrats, Independents and Republicans for the Democratic nomination. Kind of looks like a steam roller. Not my first choice but he appears to be the people's choice.
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The only republicans who want Biden to get the nomination are the hardcore Trump fanatics, and that’s because they know Biden doesn’t have enough marbles left to survive a one on one debate. The man can’t even formulate 20 seconds of coherent speech. He’s Hillary Clinton without the debate skills. Remember 2016?
 
jonnyboy said:
The only republicans who want Biden to get the nomination are the hardcore Trump fanatics, and that’s because they know Biden doesn’t have enough marbles left to survive a one on one debate. The man can’t even formulate 20 seconds of coherent speech. He’s Hillary Clinton without the debate skills. Remember 2016?
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this is bizarro world. are you talking about Biden or Trump not formulating 20 seconds of speech? You might have your candidate mixed up.
 
barfo said:
I am not convinced your experience is typical of the broader electorate. Bernie Tulsi Yang aren't even that popular among Democrats.

barfo
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I am not convinced the mainstream reporting is representative of the broader electorate.

See: 2016 election
 
calvin natt said:
this is bizarro world. are you talking about Biden or Trump not formulating 20 seconds of speech? You might have your candidate mixed up.
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Bro, I’m sorry. I know how much you hate Trump, I get it.
Please clear your head of rage and don’t underestimate him, for the sake of the election. He can win a debate against some of these people. It’s just a fact. It might not be eloquent or on topic, but he can win using his troll tactics alone.
This is not me sucking Trumps dick, this is me telling you and other dems not to waltz in expecting a win again. Dems need to quit doubling down on this shit where they just think everything is going to be a slam dunk. It’s not. I don’t want Trump either. My criticisms of the Democrats aren’t because I love Trump, its because i actually think there are a few decent candidates, but I’m watching the dems walk down the same path as they did in 2016 by propping up morons like Joe Biden.
 
jonnyboy said:
I am not convinced the mainstream reporting is representative of the broader electorate.

See: 2016 election
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I am convinced that you not being convinced has any real relevance. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Nobody wants to be shamed. :pumpitup:
 
jonnyboy said:
I am not convinced the mainstream reporting is representative of the broader electorate.

See: 2016 election
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Well, I guess we'll see when we get to the primaries, but if the primaries were today, the polls would have to be WILDLY incorrect for you to be correct.
The polls were a bit off in 2016 but not so much that Jill Stein won the election. That's the level of inaccuracy that you are implying.

barfo
 
jonnyboy said:
Bro, I’m sorry. I know how much you hate Trump, I get it.
Please clear your head of rage and don’t underestimate him, for the sake of the election. He can win a debate against some of these people. It’s just a fact. It might not be eloquent or on topic, but he can win using his troll tactics alone.
This is not me sucking Trumps dick, this is me telling you and other dems not to waltz in expecting a win again. Dems need to quit doubling down on this shit where they just think everything is going to be a slam dunk. It’s not. I don’t want Trump either. My criticisms of the Democrats aren’t because I love Trump, its because i actually think there are a few decent candidates, but I’m watching the dems walk down the same path as they did in 2016 by propping up morons like Joe Biden.
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There are a few that aren't and they will rise to the surface, and be factors down the stretch for the nomination.
Many people will be looking for some sanity and middle ground for non partisanship efforts. Some will play this whole thing very SLY.
 
CupWizier said:
It appears he is a liddle' off in his thinking.
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Please quit using me and other forum members as your personal punching bag with the president’s face on it. Nobody here is as horrible as you think they are. Most people at least try to present thoughtful posts and you respond exclusively with smug condescension and emojis.

You are literally the Donald Trump of this forum and it’s the most ironic spectacle I’ve ever witnessed.
 
jonnyboy said:
Bro, I’m sorry. I know how much you hate Trump, I get it.
Please clear your head of rage and don’t underestimate him, for the sake of the election. He can win a debate against some of these people. It’s just a fact. It might not be eloquent or on topic, but he can win using his troll tactics alone.
This is not me sucking Trumps dick, this is me telling you and other dems not to waltz in expecting a win again. Dems need to quit doubling down on this shit where they just think everything is going to be a slam dunk. It’s not. I don’t want Trump either. My criticisms of the Democrats aren’t because I love Trump, its because i actually think there are a few decent candidates, but I’m watching the dems walk down the same path as they did in 2016 by propping up morons like Joe Biden.
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I dont think its an easy win for Dems, and never have said as much. I have actually said repeatedly that the Dems SUCK at all of this, and think Trump can win again....which is truly, truly amazing to me. It is not about "trump winning", its about the democrats losing elections. It would not take much to win. I think they need an influx of younger people - denture Pelosi isnt helping matters.
 
In Tulsi news, she just came out in favor of impeachment.

Slower than Pelosi is pretty damn slow.

barfo
 
jonnyboy said:
Please quit using me and other forum members as your personal punching bag with the president’s face on it. Nobody here is as horrible as you think they are. Most people at least try to present thoughtful posts and you respond exclusively with smug condescension and emojis.

You are literally the Donald Trump of this forum and it’s the most ironic spectacle I’ve ever witnessed.
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says the guy who about a week ago claimed he was going to leave the OT section. You crack me up kid as you are all over the place with nonsense and not worth wasting my time debating you.
 
calvin natt said:
I dont think its an easy win for Dems, and never have said as much. I have actually said repeatedly that the Dems SUCK at all of this, and think Trump can win again....which is truly, truly amazing to me. It is not about "trump winning", its about the democrats losing elections. It would not take much to win. I think they need an influx of younger people - denture Pelosi isnt helping matters.
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Nor is Biden. Young people want a progressive. They don’t want to be swamped with student loans and medical bills and never be able to own a home. That is all the status quo is offering right now and many of these Dem candidates are status quo politicians trying to ride the Bernie wave into the White House where they can get down to business as usual.
 
CupWizier said:
says the guy who about a week ago claimed he was going to leave the OT section. You crack me up kid as you are all over the place with nonsense and not worth wasting my time debating you.
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Way to stay on topic Donnie.

When did I explicitly state I was leaving the OT forum? Quote please?

Don’t worry, I don’t expect a response.
 
jonnyboy said:
Nor is Biden. Young people want a progressive. They don’t want to be swamped with student loans and medical bills and never be able to own a home. That is all the status quo is offering right now and many of these Dem candidates are status quo politicians trying to ride the Bernie wave into the White House where they can get down to business as usual.
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Not dismissing your concerns about the status quo, but the Bernie wave appears to be too small to ride at this point, may have to paddle out and wait for the next wave.

barfo
 
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