NJ Nets Debate Round 2: Matchup #2

[NJNetz]

Hello everyone, welcome to the New Jersey Nets debate. We'll continue the second round, with the following members, "The Legend", and "Master Shake". This debate will begin once the first reply is submitted and will last approximately 48 hours.

Here is a couple of rules to remember:

1. No one other than the people participating in this debate, can post in this thread.

2. Form your own opinion about the topic your discussing, don't steal material.

3. Keep it clean and intelligent.


And the question is:
Out of Marcus Williams, Josh Boone, Antoine Wright, Mile Illic, and Sean Williams, which player will have the best career? What will they likely accomplish? Will they remain a Net their whole career?

 

[Master Shake]

Out of Marcus Williams, Josh Boone, Antoine Wright, Mile Illic, and Sean Williams, I think that Sean Williams will have the best career. To me it is really between him and Marcus Williams. Boone, Wright and Illic are guys with nothing spectacular or great about them, with not much offensive or defensive skills between them.

When I think of Marcus Williams, he reminds me of Deron Williams (No pun intended) Like Deron they are not great athletes, but can play the game at a high level. Marcus is built like a beast. He is 6'3 which is great PG size and can take contact and keep his body control when being fouled. When I remember Marcus at UConn, he has great court vision. When I see him with the Nets, he looks at the half-court set just as good as any vet PG would. He reacts to what he sees before it comes around. He can pass from almost anywhere and with a Mentor like Kidd, he can only get better. He uses almost every kind of pass and is a great decision maker. Marcus is an exceptional ball handler and is a guy who could win you games in the clutch because he shoots the ball at a high percentage and is a 80% FT shooter. However, with this season there where times were he was low in confidence. Where he just couldn't get into the grove and play at the level he is capable of. Marcus is to me a bit of a one-dimensional player. While being a great passer, and he has shown times where he can get to the rim, he will never really create his own shot. When playing behind Jason Kidd, Marcus was limited to how much he played. But he used it some what wisely at times. He is not a great leader yet, but I expect him to improve vastly this year. With Kidd getting older he seems to be that PG of the future for the Nets. Right now he isn't a on court leader, as much as he should be. While he might say to a team mate, settle down get in to it, he is still quite and not yet loud enough or enough of a leader to lead a team, like his compared counter part Deron.


Sean Williams is an athletic freak. With a 7-5 wingspan, he can block shots with ease. He was close to averaging almost 6.5 BPG, one of the highest in college history. Sean has all the physical needs to become a great PF. He has quick hands, long wingspan, can leap as quick as anyone in the game. He has a soft touch around the basket and is a great finisher. One of the best help defenders I have ever seen. He will just come from the weak side and swat it out of bounds. His work ethic is good when challenged, but not a great self-motivator. To me he has the greatest potential out of all the NJ young guns. He is said to be the 3rd best in his draft class, and can become K-Mart 2.0. He could possibly be better then K-Mart. While Martin is a great dunker, his injuries have limited him to not much. Sean Williams is a great athlete with little injury, and can play in the post, block tons of shots and rebound. Williams is what I consider "A great future PF" He is a guy who will not come very often. He can run the floor, block, rebound play with his back to the basket and shot a good percentage. He doesn't go outside his skill range, and is a guy the Nets need. He is what will bring a contender back to NJ since Martin left. Marcus is a PG, who is average, and a guy like Brevin Night is better. There will be PG's like Marcus in the future, and there are better ones out there. Sean is a guy who can come out in the clutch with down low play, and great defense. Him and Oden will go head to head in rookie defense because both can block shots. To me Sean could become one of the best PF's in that draft. He stays out of foul trouble, runs the court and is a great athlete and will thrive with Kidd, who can feed him the ball wherever. However, problems with Sean is his willingness to play. He has and will always be questioned for his willingness to play. His off court behavior and hustle is something that brings him down. He is not a great out of position rebounder because he won't hustle often, but that could all change. He is sometimes easily out worked by guys he should over power no problem, but with a team like Kidd, Carter and Jefferson on his case, he should be able to straighten out and fly right. He is a guy who can make your team so much better and is a beast down low.


Marcus Williams will not accomplish much. He will be an average PG, who I think will not start ever in his career, because of his lack of leadership and one-dimensional game.

Sean Williams will become a double-double player who could become a possible Finals MVP. He is again a great athlete who can change games with his defense and down low moves and strength. He runs the court as good as Amare, and can become a great PF, if he puts the hustle and effort into what he does.


As far as remain a Net their whole Career, I think Sean could, but Marcus will not. I think if this season he doesn't improve or his confidence doesn't go up, he is good as gone. He did nothing in last years playoffs, and was almost invisible when he was one the court. Sean with, some work, could become the next PF the Nets need, because of his overall athleticism, defense and potential. He could do anything around the basket and is in line to be the biggest sleep in this years draft. The answer this question, Marcus will not stay a Net his whole career, and Sean will, depending on his willingness and hustle. If those two things are in line, he could be a great Net, who could help win them championships.

 

[The Legend]

I to think that it is between Sean Willams and Marcus Willams, but I believe that Marcus Willams will have a better carrier and accomplish much more in the NBA.

Marus Willams was expected to be a lottery pick, instead he went #22. Willams was named Most Improved Player of the Big East from his frehman year to sophmore year. That comes to show you that he will improve dramatically. Yet again, he improved in his Junior year. Williams averaged 12.3 points, 8.6 assists, and shot 86% from the free throw line. In a game against Notre Dame, he recorded the first ever triple double for UConn in a Big East game with 18 points, 13 assists and 10 rebounds. A triple double in College says alot about a player, and who better to learn from to make a triple double in the NBA, then Jason Kidd.In the 2006 NCAA tourney, he averaged 20 points, 8.8 assists, while shooting 52% from the field, 56% from three-point range, and 96% from the free throw line. Also, Willams was known as one of the clutch performers.

<div class="quote_poster">Master Shake Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">

When I think of Marcus Williams, he reminds me of Deron Williams (No pun intended) Like Deron they are not great athletes, but can play the game at a high level. Marcus is built like a beast. He is 6'3 which is great PG size and can take contact and keep his body control when being fouled. When I remember Marcus at UConn, he has great court vision. When I see him with the Nets, he looks at the half-court set just as good as any vet PG would. He reacts to what he sees before it comes around. He can pass from almost anywhere and with a Mentor like Kidd, he can only get better. He uses almost every kind of pass and is a great decision maker. Marcus is an exceptional ball handler and is a guy who could win you games in the clutch because he shoots the ball at a high percentage and is a 80% FT shooter. However, with this season there where times were he was low in confidence. Where he just couldn't get into the grove and play at the level he is capable of. Marcus is to me a bit of a one-dimensional player. While being a great passer, and he has shown times where he can get to the rim, he will never really create his own shot. When playing behind Jason Kidd, Marcus was limited to how much he played. But he used it some what wisely at times. He is not a great leader yet, but I expect him to improve vastly this year. With Kidd getting older he seems to be that PG of the future for the Nets. Right now he isn't a on court leader, as much as he should be. While he might say to a team mate, settle down get in to it, he is still quite and not yet loud enough or enough of a leader to lead a team, like his compared counter part Deron.</div>

Yes Willams has a game much like Deron Willams, which is more a reason on why he will suceed in the NBA. Jason Kidd loves Deron Willams and has said that he is going to be his mentor and such throught the USA team. Kidd is already teaching Marcus Willams, so expect Marcus to be an All-Star calliber Point Guard soon enough. Nobody is a great leader in thier Rookie- Year, give him some time and he too will show what he could, just as Deron Willams.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sean Williams is an athletic freak. With a 7-5 wingspan, he can block shots with ease. He was close to averaging almost 6.5 BPG, one of the highest in college history. Sean has all the physical needs to become a great PF. He has quick hands, long wingspan, can leap as quick as anyone in the game. He has a soft touch around the basket and is a great finisher. One of the best help defenders I have ever seen. He will just come from the weak side and swat it out of bounds. His work ethic is good when challenged, but not a great self-motivator. To me he has the greatest potential out of all the NJ young guns. He is said to be the 3rd best in his draft class, and can become K-Mart 2.0. He could possibly be better then K-Mart. While Martin is a great dunker, his injuries have limited him to not much. Sean Williams is a great athlete with little injury, and can play in the post, block tons of shots and rebound. Williams is what I consider "A great future PF" He is a guy who will not come very often. He can run the floor, block, rebound play with his back to the basket and shot a good percentage. He doesn't go outside his skill range, and is a guy the Nets need. He is what will bring a contender back to NJ since Martin left. Marcus is a PG, who is average, and a guy like Brevin Night is better. There will be PG's like Marcus in the future, and there are better ones out there. Sean is a guy who can come out in the clutch with down low play, and great defense. Him and Oden will go head to head in rookie defense because both can block shots. To me Sean could become one of the best PF's in that draft. He stays out of foul trouble, runs the court and is a great athlete and will thrive with Kidd, who can feed him the ball wherever. However, problems with Sean is his willingness to play. He has and will always be questioned for his willingness to play. His off court behavior and hustle is something that brings him down. He is not a great out of position rebounder because he won't hustle often, but that could all change. He is sometimes easily out worked by guys he should over power no problem, but with a team like Kidd, Carter and Jefferson on his case, he should be able to straighten out and fly right. He is a guy who can make your team so much better and is a beast down low.</div>

Firstly, I remeber some article with him about some off the court issue. Which could afftect his play, I forgot what it was, when i find it, I will post it here.

Yes, he is an athletic freak. He can block alot of shots, an excellent PF, right? This kind of reminds of the biggest bust in NBA history, Kwame Brown. I'am not saying Willams will be a bust, I think he will be a great player. But, just saying, Brown to was a athletic freak, could shoot from anywhere. A monster on the glass and so on.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sean Williams will become a double-double player who could become a possible Finals MVP. He is again a great athlete who can change games with his defense and down low moves and strength. He runs the court as good as Amare, and can become a great PF, if he puts the hustle and effort into what he does.</div>

The best Sean Willams will be is a 12/7 big man. A reliable PF down low, not the level of Amare or Finals MVP. A defensive specialist, with alot of blocks under his belt. Marcus Willams could become an All-Star in the east and would be a 16/8 PG, with maybe around 4 rebounds. You seem to forgot he is under Jason Kidd.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As far as remain a Net their whole Career, I think Sean could, but Marcus will not. I think if this season he doesn't improve or his confidence doesn't go up, he is good as gone. He did nothing in last years playoffs, and was almost invisible when he was one the court. Sean with, some work, could become the next PF the Nets need, because of his overall athleticism, defense and potential. He could do anything around the basket and is in line to be the biggest sleep in this years draft. The answer this question, Marcus will not stay a Net his whole career, and Sean will, depending on his willingness and hustle. If those two things are in line, he could be a great Net, who could help win them championships.</div>

I see both of them being a Net for a long time. Unless they deal Marcus Willams of for like Jermaine Oneal. I don't know if each will stay a Net thier whole carrier, but it could be Marcus Willams, because Jason Kidd would have to retire, where he would leave Willams to continue.

 

[Master Shake]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I to think that it is between Sean Williams and Marcus Williams, but I believe that Marcus Williams will have a better carrier and accomplish much more in the NBA.
Marus Williams was expected to be a lottery pick, instead he went #22. Williams was named Most Improved Player of the Big East from his frehman year to sophmore year. That comes to show you that he will improve dramatically. Yet again, he improved in his Junior year. Williams averaged 12.3 points, 8.6 assists, and shot 86% from the free throw line. In a game against Notre Dame, he recorded the first ever triple double for UConn in a Big East game with 18 points, 13 assists and 10 rebounds. A triple double in College says alot about a player, and who better to learn from to make a triple double in the NBA, then Jason Kidd.In the 2006 NCAA tourney, he averaged 20 points, 8.8 assists, while shooting 52% from the field, 56% from three-point range, and 96% from the free throw line. Also, Willams was known as one of the clutch performers. </div>

At first, I thought Marcus was going to be a great PG. Now, I think he'll be a good one, but not great. He has yet to show my why he should of been a lottery pick. He dropped, right? So shouldn't he have been playing with a chip on his shoulder? Showing everyone he should of been taken higher? College stats are nice, but what do they mean? I didn't include them for a reason. While he was a great PG at UConn, he is a less then average defender. He doesn't move his feet quick enough and was extremely reliant on the his front line at UConn with Gay, Boone & Armstrong. He was beat easily but was most of the time bailed out by one of those three. He has major problems with playing at the perimeter and in front of his man. Usually, if you watched any UConn games when he played (I don't care if you did or didn't

) he was beat by smaller and quicker guards. Also he didn't once seem to me like he even put effort into his defense. He doesn't play D like he does play make, which to me makes him un-clutch. I've said Kidd is a mentor for Marcus, but Marcus isn't Kidd, and Kidd isn't Marcus. There is only so much a mentor can do, and Williams as you saw at the end of last season, lost confidence and became transparent in the playoffs.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes Willams has a game much like Deron Willams, which is more a reason on why he will suceed in the NBA. Jason Kidd loves Deron Willams and has said that he is going to be his mentor and such throught the USA team. Kidd is already teaching Marcus Willams, so expect Marcus to be an All-Star calliber Point Guard soon enough. Nobody is a great leader in thier Rookie- Year, give him some time and he too will show what he could, just as Deron Willams.</div>

His game is like Deron, but he isn't Deron. Hasn't shot like Deron, played like Deron & hasn't done anything like Deron. 1 thing I said was similar was athleticism, that is it. Deron as we saw lead his team to the WCF, was consistent and second year out he lead, without Jason Kidd. I bet if Deron had Kidd, he could of been even better. No one is a great leader rookie year? Um, Chris Paul? He came out and just run the Hornets. I think Marcus could become an All-Star, but man that will take a while. To me he just can't transfer his offense to the NBA, he is just not doing what he should be.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Firstly, I remeber some article with him about some off the court issue. Which could afftect his play, I forgot what it was, when i find it, Is it here. </div>

The Boston Globe

It was a drug bust.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, he is an athletic freak. He can block alot of shots, an excellent PF, right? This kind of reminds of the biggest bust in NBA histiry, Kwame Brown. I'am not saying Willams will be a bust, I think he will be a great player. But, just saying, Brown to was a athletic freak, could shoot from anywhere. A monster on the glass and so on. </div>

Kwame came right out of high school, and was not used well by Eddie Jordan. He wasn't ready for the NBA. Sean Williams, has shown he can play in the NBA. His hustle and will are an issue, but that can be fixed. You can say anyone can become a bust. Hell, Oden, could, Durant could. It isn't likely. Bust's just happen, it is hard to for see things like that. Why it happens, no one knows, it just does.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The best Sean Willams will be is a 12/7 big man. A reliable PF down low, not the level of Amare or Finals MVP. A defensive specialist, with alot of blocks under his belt. Marcus Willams could become an All-Star in the east and would be a 16/8 PG, with maybe around 4 rebounds. You seem to forgot he is under Jason Kidd.</div>

12/7 is a good career. He could possibly average 5 blocks, and he does get his share of steals. He could average about 2 steals also. Sean Williams will most likely become an East All-Star before Marcus, because he will be a blocker who can score down low and is just ntt rebounding again because of his hustle. He could easily be a 18/10/5 blocks guy. With a great FT percentage, he is just as good as Marcus, with much better defense, and a PF like that is hard to come by, especially when he could become the next Kenyon Martin, but even better. Marcus is a PG, that can be replaced by Steve Blake. He is a better defender and just as good a passer. The only up-side for Marcus is he ball handling and his few nice passes.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I see both of them being a Net for a long time. Unless they deal Marcus Willams of for like Jermaine Oneal. I don't know if each will stay a Net thier whole carrier, but it could be Marcus Willams, because Jason Kidd would have to retire, where he would leave Willams to continue.</div>

If Jason Kidd were to retire at the end of next year, I wouldn't be so confident in Marcus to lead a team. He is a good player, but his defense and reliance on his front court is a liability. Sean could become a Net for a while because he is a better defender. And what wins you championships? Defense. And who has 4 championships in 9 years? The Spurs. AND what do the Spurs play well? Defense So since Sean Williams plays good defense, he is more valuable then Marcus because while he can score, his defense is still good, so he is more versatile then Marcus, and a better player.

 

[The Legend]

<div class="quote_poster">Master Shake Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">At first, I thought Marcus was going to be a great PG. Now, I think he'll be a good one, but not great. He has yet to show my why he should of been a lottery pick. He dropped, right? So shouldn't he have been playing with a chip on his shoulder? Showing everyone he should of been taken higher? College stats are nice, but what do they mean? I didn't include them for a reason. While he was a great PG at UConn, he is a less then average defender. He doesn't move his feet quick enough and was extremely reliant on the his front line at UConn with Gay, Boone & Armstrong. He was beat easily but was most of the time bailed out by one of those three. He has major problems with playing at the perimeter and in front of his man. Usually, if you watched any UConn games when he played (I don't care if you did or didn't

) he was beat by smaller and quicker guards. Also he didn't once seem to me like he even put effort into his defense. He doesn't play D like he does play make, which to me makes him un-clutch. I've said Kidd is a mentor for Marcus, but Marcus isn't Kidd, and Kidd isn't Marcus. There is only so much a mentor can do, and Williams as you saw at the end of last season, lost confidence and became transparent in the playoffs.</div>

Alright, If you don't think College stats are important, then check the summer league stats. Marcus Willams dropped 41 points on OJ Mayo. He was in the top 10 for best performaces in the Summer League.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The 21-year-old guard enjoyed a fantastic summer league in Orlando and he showed he might be the future of the Nets once that man named Jason Kidd calls it a career. Williams, who picked up some good minutes last year for New Jersey, averaged 16.0 points, 4.2 rebounds, and 6.0 assists in five appearances this summer. </div>

Source

Where was Sean Willams? There were articles saying Sean Willams has alot of work ahead.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Williams' strengths are defense and rebounding, but "he wasn't dominant," according to an Eastern Conference coach who doesn't put much stock in summer league.</div>

There is alot more in This

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">His game is like Deron, but he isn't Deron. Hasn't shot like Deron, played like Deron & hasn't done anything like Deron. 1 thing I said was similar was athleticism, that is it. Deron as we saw lead his team to the WCF, was consistent and second year out he lead, without Jason Kidd. I bet if Deron had Kidd, he could of been even better. No one is a great leader rookie year? Um, Chris Paul? He came out and just run the Hornets. I think Marcus could become an All-Star, but man that will take a while. To me he just can't transfer his offense to the NBA, he is just not doing what he should be. </div>

Just give Marcus Willams some time, he will show you what he can do. Deron didn't do much on his first year either. Chris Paul I agree, but Marcus Willams and Chris Paul are on diffrent levels of play and in different positons. Marcus Willams has to play under Jason Kidd.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kwame came right out of high school, and was not used well by Eddie Jordan. He wasn't ready for the NBA. </div>

Yes, but Kwame could do everything, he was a beast. He also had an offensive aresnal. While all Sean Willams does is play defense. Sean Willams has no offensive skill at all. He is horrible on the offensive side. All he can do is defend. Which is more a Ben Wallace type of player. Not Amare.




<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">12/7 is a good career. He could possibly average 5 blocks, and he does get his share of steals. He could average about 2 steals also. Sean Williams will most likely become an East All-Star before Marcus, because he will be a blocker who can score down low and is just ntt rebounding again because of his hustle. He could easily be a 18/10/5 blocks guy. With a great FT percentage, he is just as good as Marcus, with much better defense, and a PF like that is hard to come by, especially when he could become the next Kenyon Martin, but even better. Marcus is a PG, that can be replaced by Steve Blake. He is a better defender and just as good a passer. The only up-side for Marcus is he ball handling and his few nice passes. </div>

I didn't mean that as his carrier stats, i meant it as the best he can be in one season. On replacing Marcus Willams, he would understand the whole team, the organization and the players. Why would they want to get some one like Steve Blake. It makes no sense. It will be a while for Sean Willams to make the all-star team, with forwards like Garnett, Bosh, LeBron, etc...

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If Jason Kidd were to retire at the end of next year, I wouldn't be so confident in Marcus to lead a team. He is a good player, but his defense and reliance on his front court is a liability. Sean could become a Net for a while because he is a better defender. And what wins you championships? Defense. And who has 4 championships in 9 years? The Spurs. AND what do the Spurs play well? Defense So since Sean Williams plays good defense, he is more valuable then Marcus because while he can score, his defense is still good, so he is more versatile then Marcus, and a better player.</div>

San Antonio is a well organized and well built team. They all play defense and they have 1 defensive specialist. That does not mean the Nets could do the same. Sean Willams alone cannot do sqat.

 

[Master Shake]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Alright, If you don't think College stats are important, then check the summer league stats. Marcus Williams dropped 41 points on OJ Mayo. He was in the top 10 for best performaces in the Summer League.</div>

Summer League? Where Durant and Oden were not major factors. Top 10 from summer league? Was he even number 1. OJ Mayo will be amazing, you can't compare Marcus to Mayo. Mayo dunked on Kobe, does it make him better? No. Marcus I'm saying can do all these things in summer league and college, but why not the NBA?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Source

Where was Sean Williams? There were articles saying Sean Williams has alot of work ahead.</div>

He does, I never said he doesn't, but his potential is greater. If he could of kept his crap in line, he could of been a force and been picked higher. He is like a High School kid almost, but not at phenomenal. However, he can as Vince Carter says, "Become a game changer"


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">There is alot more in This</div>

"I think he's a game-changer," Carter said. "He can definitely block shots."

The good thing for the Nets is Williams recognizes he's not where he needs to be.

"I definitely need to keep playing," Williams said, "and get more experience under my belt."

What is this showing, that an article needs to prove your point. He was kicked out of college, and is still "raw" like they say. He can learn, and he will. He still has way more potential the Marcus. Marcus is a better college player then Sean, yes. However, Sean can do more for a team then Marcus can, because of his defense.




<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Just give Marcus Williams some time, he will show you what he can do.</div>

Is that it, just give him time? Give Sean time too, maybe he'll show you also. Or is it like when we gave Kwame time, or Bynum time. Williams needs to show he can play this year, because Kidd is getting older, and the Nets will need a PG. I have my doubts that Williams will become that great PG that the Nets need.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, but Kwame could do everything, he was a beast. He also had an offensive arsenal. While all Sean Williams does is play defense.</div>

Sean Williams scored about 12 PPG, 6 RPG, 1.5 steals and 5 blocks per. That is a good stat line. Where you not reading what I said. Anyone can become a bust. It just happened to Kwame. You brought up this Kwame, Williams comparison. They are not that a like. I think of Williams as a possible Theo Ratliff at worst. Some scouts like him, say a young Amare or Martin, some don't. Either way, he wasn't drafted first was he? No, so don't compare a guy out of high school drafted first to a kid kicked out of college drafted 17th, it doesn't work.




<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Marcus Williams would understand the whole team, the organization and the players. Why would they want to get some one like Steve Blake. It makes no sense. </div>

I'm saying that a guy like Blake, is better then Marcus right now. Marcus will be better then Blake, but is that what the Nets want. A guy who was so highly rated, a lottery pick, to be a guy just a bit better then Steve Blake? Marcus is not a leader yet, with low confidence. Also, you aren't reading what I type. Man, Marcus is a bad defender, with a one-dimensional passing game, against tough opponents. In the playoffs, where was Marcus, one the bench. Why was he there, because he failed to show up and play like he should. Not what the Nets need.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">San Antonio is a well organized and well built team. They all play defense and they have 1 defensive specialist. That does not mean the Nets could do the same. Sean Williams alone cannot do sqat.</div>


What I mean, is Defense is more valuable then offense at some points. Williams is going to be clutch because he can guard his man, score when called upon, rebound, get steals and play at a high level with some work. Marcus, can pass, isn't the most clutch player, a horrible defender, and not a guy to lead his team to the playoffs.

 

[The Legend]

<div class="quote_poster">Master Shake Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Summer League? Where Durant and Oden were not major factors. Top 10 from summer league? Was he even number 1. OJ Mayo will be amazing, you can't compare Marcus to Mayo. Mayo dunked on Kobe, does it make him better? No. Marcus I'm saying can do all these things in summer league and college, but why not the NBA?</div>

Durant and Oden were not major factors, but you have to take in the ones that were big factors. I did not say he is going to be really good just because he dropped 41 points on OJ Mayo. Im just stating the potential he has and what he can do with his offense. You are not going to get your amount of miuntes to shine if you are a backup PG to Jason Kidd. He was a rookie, I think that Marcus Willams will improve dramtically this season. Like he did in collge from his freshman year to sophmore year. He could be the possible Most Improved Player for the NBA next season. The past MIP's have all become huge stars, Tracy McGrady, Gilbert Arenas, etc...


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">"I think he's a game-changer," Carter said. "He can definitely block shots."

The good thing for the Nets is Williams recognizes he's not where he needs to be.

"I definitely need to keep playing," Williams said, "and get more experience under my belt."</div>

You are going to take the word of Carter? He is the teamate, of course he is going to say incouraging things to the rookie.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What is this showing, that an article needs to prove your point. He was kicked out of college, and is still "raw" like they say. He can learn, and he will. He still has way more potential the Marcus. Marcus is a better college player then Sean, yes. However, Sean can do more for a team then Marcus can, because of his defense.</div>

Yes, kicked out of college, that said. This makes you think. What's to say he won't be kicked out of the NBA? Or, the issues he has, he might not want to keep playing and so on.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm saying that a guy like Blake, is better then Marcus right now. Marcus will be better then Blake, but is that what the Nets want. A guy who was so highly rated, a lottery pick, to be a guy just a bit better then Steve Blake? Marcus is not a leader yet, with low confidence. Also, you aren't reading what I type. Man, Marcus is a bad defender, with a one-dimensional passing game, against tough opponents. In the playoffs, where was Marcus, one the bench. Why was he there, because he failed to show up and play like he should. Not what the Nets need.</div>

Marcus Willams is the best person the Nets can get to take over for Kidd. You said Kidd is not Willams and Willams isn't Kidd. That might be true, but Kidd will put everything into Willams. He will teach him how to be a better defender and so on. Again Marcus Willams has shown that he can improve. With a teacher like Jason Kidd, I expect him to be a really good PG.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What I mean, is Defense is more valuable then offense at some points. Williams is going to be clutch because he can guard his man, score when called upon, rebound, get steals and play at a high level with some work. Marcus, can pass, isn't the most clutch player, a horrible defender, and not a guy to lead his team to the playoffs.</div>

Willams was known as one of the premier clutch performers. Sean Willams can play defense, yes it is valubale, but he can't play offense, which is not enough to lead a team. A defensive specialist cannot lead a team. That is like saying Ben Wallace alone can lead a team. As you like to compare him to Amare and Kenyon. Amare is a beast, he can score anyway. So is Martin. Sean Willams might have a nice stat line. But he is accutually a horrible offensive player.

 

[Master Shake]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Durant and Oden were not major factors, but you have to take in the ones that were big factors. I did not say he is going to be really good just because he dropped 41 points on OJ Mayo. Im just stating the potential he has and what he can do with his offense. You are not going to get your amount of miuntes to shine if you are a backup PG to Jason Kidd. He was a rookie, I think that Marcus Willams will improve dramtically this season. Like he did in collge from his freshman year to sophmore year. He could be the possible Most Improved Player for the NBA next season. The past MIP's have all become huge stars, Tracy McGrady, Gilbert Arenas, etc...</div>

Marcus Williams will not win MIP. There are guys like Bargnani, Roy, his whole draft class could win it before him. His offense is good in summer league and college because of his minutes. He doesn't play the minutes to become the next great Nets PG. Kidd will play tons of minutes till he retires, when that is, no one knows. His whole draft class basically started and become good. He, even though he has played limited minutes, hasn't shown what he could do. If he was so highly regarded in college, why hasn't he come in and used his time. In the playoffs, he froze, lost confidence and Kidd has to play tons more. Is that something you want leading your team?





<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You are going to take the word of Carter? He is the teamate, of course he is going to say incouraging things to the rookie.</div>

Like Kidd is going to Mentor Marcus. Team mates help, you brought up the article, so I showed you something from it about Sean. They he has the support and that he could be a game changer.





<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, kicked out of college, that said. This makes you think. What's to say he won't be kicked out of the NBA? Or, the issues he has, he might not want to keep playing and so on. </div>


He I think will grow. Wait, I know he will. This guy wants to play ball, I can't predict what he will do, but he has the potential to be something great. Kicked out of the NBA. Um, Marcus Williams also had an inccident with stealing computers, but he is not a thug. Sean Williams was kicked off his college ball team, not straight out of college. He will want to play, why do you think he says he needs to improve, he knows his potential and will be a top PF in the league for years to come.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Marcus Willams is the best person the Nets can get to take over for Kidd. You said Kidd is not Willams and Willams isn't Kidd. That might be true, but Kidd will put everything into Willams. He will teach him how to be a better defender and so on. Again Marcus Willams has shown that he can improve. With a teacher like Jason Kidd, I expect him to be a really good PG.</div>

How can you say the best? There are tons of PG better for the Nets then him. Calderon, Knight, Law, Conoly etc... How do you know Kidd will put everything. While I believe Kidd will mentor him, some of it is one Marcus. Who right now, has shown he hasn't got the skill. Kidd had the skill, except stupid Grant Hill had to share the ROY, even though Kidd deserved it. He will be a good PG, but not the one to lead the Nets like Kidd. Kidd lead them because he is an all around great player. Kidd doesn't have time to teach Marcus defense, he has to work on that on his own. He will not be a good defender next year, and again will lack, maybe a slight improvement. He just isn't confident behind Kidd.




<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Willams was known as one of the premier clutch performers. Sean Willams can play defense, yes it is valubale, but he can't play offense, which is not enough to lead a team. A defensive specialist cannot lead a team. That is like saying Ben Wallace alone can lead a team. As you like to compare him to Amare and Kenyon. Amare is a beast, he can score anyway. So is Martin. Sean Willams might have a nice stat line. But he is accutually a horrible offensive player.</div>

How can you say not play offense. He has a great touch around the basket, can grab rebounds and his ever improving play around the basket will help him score 12-20 points later in his career. Sean Williams will score about 10PPG with 6RPG and 4 BPG this year. Ben Wallace was a huge piece for the Pistons, how can you say he wasn't. Sean Williams could become a better defender, with more offensive skill. How is that bad? I never said he will lead a team, but he could come up in the clutch with blocks, defense and put backs. Premier in college, not the NBA. Marcus is not confident enough yet to play good defense, or be clutch. Clutch is making the big defensive stop, which we all know, Marcus cannot do. He is easily beaten by smaller guards, and doesn't show the effort.

 

[The Legend]

<div class="quote_poster">Master Shake Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Marcus Williams will not win MIP. There are guys like Bargnani, Roy, his whole draft class could win it before him. His offense is good in summer league and college because of his minutes. He doesn't play the minutes to become the next great Nets PG. Kidd will play tons of minutes till he retires, when that is, no one knows. His whole draft class basically started and become good. He, even though he has played limited minutes, hasn't shown what he could do. If he was so highly regarded in college, why hasn't he come in and used his time. In the playoffs, he froze, lost confidence and Kidd has to play tons more. Is that something you want leading your team?</div>

Well, there is your answer to why he hasn't shown what he can do. You said it yourself. Basically, his whole draft class started. Thus overshadowing him big time. No backup PG to Jason Kidd is going to shine or have alot of miutes to play with. Yet, you keep putting in this factor of him losing confidence in the playoffs. He is a rookie for god sakes, only Daniel Gibbson and Paul Milsap performed well in the playoffs. Also, Chris Bosh did not do so well in his first playoffs either in his 4th year, huh?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He I think will grow. Wait, I know he will. This guy wants to play ball, I can't predict what he will do, but he has the potential to be something great. Kicked out of the NBA. Um, Marcus Williams also had an inccident with stealing computers, but he is not a thug. Sean Williams was kicked off his college ball team, not straight out of college. He will want to play, why do you think he says he needs to improve, he knows his potential and will be a top PF in the league for years to come.</div>

So you think that Sean Willams will be a top PF? The best he is going to be is a reliable big man down low, maybe the defnensive 2nd team, possibly 1st. That is all.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">How can you say the best? There are tons of PG better for the Nets then him. Calderon, Knight, Law, Conoly etc... How do you know Kidd will put everything. While I believe Kidd will mentor him, some of it is one Marcus. Who right now, has shown he hasn't got the skill. Kidd had the skill, except stupid Grant Hill had to share the ROY, even though Kidd deserved it. He will be a good PG, but not the one to lead the Nets like Kidd. Kidd lead them because he is an all around great player. Kidd doesn't have time to teach Marcus defense, he has to work on that on his own. He will not be a good defender next year, and again will lack, maybe a slight improvement. He just isn't confident behind Kidd.</div>


There is no way the Nets could possibly get those players. Also, why do you think Jeramine Oneal is not in New Jersey yet? It is because Marcus Willams is the project for New Jersey, they know his potential and Kidd has been mentoring Willams.

You keep answering all of your own questions. Kidd is the reason that he has not shined yet. Bt, imagine the confidence boost he will get, when told to take over for one of the best PG's of all time.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sean Williams will score about 10PPG with 6RPG and 4 BPG this year. Ben Wallace was a huge piece for the Pistons, how can you say he wasn't. Sean Williams could become a better defender, with more offensive skill. How is that bad? I never said he will lead a team, but he could come up in the clutch with blocks, defense and put backs.</div>

4 blocks PER game, if he averages that stat line. I would make him a top canidate for ROY. Not even some of the all time blockers averaged 4bpg.

Ben Wallac did not lead the team, either will Sean Willams. Both of them are defenders in a team. If the team is well built they will suceed. If not, they will struggle.

 

[Master Shake]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">

Well, there is your answer to why he hasn't shown what he can do. You said it yourself. Basically, his whole draft class started. Thus overshadowing him big time. No backup PG to Jason Kidd is going to shine or have alot of miutes to play with. Yet, you keep putting in this factor of him losing confidence in the playoffs. He is a rookie for god sakes, only Daniel Gibbson and Paul Milsap performed well in the playoffs. Also, Chris Bosh did not do so well in his first playoffs either in his 4th year, huh?</div>

How can you say Bosh didn't do well. You know how much pressure is on a franchise player first of all. Haven't made the playoffs for more then 8 years, then you come in and are so highly expected to do well. What pressure was on Marcus? None, he just didn't perform. He wasn't a game changer, he couldn't win it or lose it for the Nets. So what if he was a rookie. You keep saying he should of been a lottery pick, but dropped, that he was so good in college, well, were was that during the season? Gibson had LeBron and Milsap is a beast, a guy who will impose his will some day. While Marcus had Kidd, Carter and Jefferson to play with. Rookie or no rookie, that is not an excuse to play like crap in the playoffs, and below average during the season. Hell, Walter Herrmann on the Bobcats, could of been a candidt for ROY. he played for the Bobcats, no stars, no nothing. No collegeg stats. So you want to bring up other rookies, then there is one. Rudy Gay, just had Pau, who was angry. Roy, what did he have, nothing, won rookie of the year. If anything, Marcus should of had a leg up with a guy like Kidd, and a threesome of stars. But he didn't be that great player who want him to be.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">

So you think that Sean Willams will be a top PF? The best he is going to be is a reliable big man down low, maybe the defnensive 2nd team, possibly 1st. That is all. </div>

He will be a 2nd defensive teamer for sure, and first most likely. He can play offense too. What don't you get? He averaged 12 per in a shortened season because of stupidity, and was a solid player.





<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">There is no way the Nets could possibly get those players. Also, why do you think Jeramine Oneal is not in New Jersey yet? It is because Marcus Willams is the project for New Jersey, they know his potential and Kidd has been mentoring Willams.</div>

While he is the project, not trading Williams for O'Neal was a dumb move. O'Neal is proven and can win you game. Hell, I would trade Sean for O'Neal, because O'Neal>Sean & Marcus. You say mentoring, but do you know this? Is it a fact. Did Iverson mentor his back-up PGs. He didn't even go to practice, PRACTICE! Kidd could be mentoring him, but like I said, it is mostly on Marcus.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">

You keep answering all of your own questions. Kidd is the reason that he has not shined yet. Bt, imagine the confidence boost he will get, when told to take over for one of the best PG's of all time. </div>

Confidence boost? How about nervousness. He will be shaking in his high tops. If I were Thorn, I would make sure I have a guy who could start instead of Williams just in case he doesn't fulfill his duties.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">4 blocks PER game, if he averages that stat line. I would make him a top canidate for ROY. Not even some of the all time blockers averaged 4bpg.

Ben Wallac did not lead the team, either will Sean Willams. Both of them are defenders in a team. If the team is well built they will suceed. If not, they will struggle.</div>


Okay, he can easily average that because of his 7-5 wingspan (He is 6'9) His amazing athleticism, and great weak side help. He is both a great individual defender and team defender. However, all you seem to talk about is how bad offensively Sean Williams is, how about we talk about how bad defensively Marcus is. You have yet to comment on that. Sean can score, about 12-15 per. Marcus can't play D for his life. He is slow on his feet, and relies on guys behind him to help him out. He is beat easily by quick guards and can be exposed no problem. Is that the type of player you want running your team?

 

[The Legend]

<div class="quote_poster">Master Shake Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How can you say Bosh didn't do well. You know how much pressure is on a franchise player first of all. Haven't made the playoffs for more then 8 years, then you come in and are so highly expected to do well. What pressure was on Marcus? None, he just didn't perform.</div>

The presure of suceeding under Jason Kidd. Nets fans had there hopes hope high on him and Lawerance Frank even said good things about him and even Jason Kidd was expecting him to do well. He was also a rookie. He had alot of presure on him, he wanted to perform well in the playoffs for his team and all of the people that expected a good performace from him. Ofcourse its not as much presure as it was for Bosh. I was just using him as an example to show all players have pressure at some point. Too bad it didn't work though. Give him time. In the future he will become much more comfortable in the playoffs.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
He wasn't a game changer, he couldn't win it or lose it for the Nets. So what if he was a rookie. You keep saying he should of been a lottery pick, but dropped, that he was so good in college, well, were was that during the season? Gibson had LeBron and Milsap is a beast, a guy who will impose his will some day. While Marcus had Kidd, Carter and Jefferson to play with. </div>


Carter takes around 20 shots a game. Jefferson takes about 13-18. Williams is a shoot first point guard, which can change from Kidd's teachings. Not enough time and shots to be a game changer.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Rookie or no rookie, that is not an excuse to play like crap in the playoffs, and below average during the season. Hell, Walter Herrmann on the Bobcats, could of been a candidt for ROY. he played for the Bobcats, no stars, no nothing. No collegeg stats. So you want to bring up other rookies, then there is one. Rudy Gay, just had Pau, who was angry. Roy, what did he have, nothing, won rookie of the year. If anything, Marcus should of had a leg up with a guy like Kidd, and a threesome of stars. But he didn't be that great player who want him to be.</div>

Um... I would accutually say, you do better if there is basically no one on your team. Brandon Roy had no one else to put up those stats, so he put them up and so on. Someone has to put stats, when thier is no where else to but you. You will put up stats. Like all the Rookies you mentioned had to do thier thing for thier team. Marcus Willams could not, he is the project. His job is to learn the game to be the future of the team. Playing behind one of the greatest point guards in the league will defiantly make him feel less acomplised and a little more nervous. None of those other rookies had to face the same thing.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, he can easily average that because of his 7-5 wingspan (He is 6'9) His amazing athleticism, and great weak side help. He is both a great individual defender and team defender. However, all you seem to talk about is how bad offensively Sean Williams is, how about we talk about how bad defensively Marcus is. You have yet to comment on that. Sean can score, about 12-15 per. Marcus can't play D for his life. He is slow on his feet, and relies on guys behind him to help him out. He is beat easily by quick guards and can be exposed no problem. Is that the type of player you want running your team?</div>

Marcus might have bad defense, but it does not mean he cannot improve on that. While I doubt Sean Willams will be able to improve on his offensive game much more. He is athletic, but he isnt good enough to avergae 4 blocks per game, just think about that for a second dude. That is way to much. That means he has multipe nights of 6+ blocks. Yao Ming's carrier high was 7. Not even the best blockers of all time averaged that many.

 

[Master Shake]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The presure of suceeding under Jason Kidd. Nets fans had there hopes hope high on him and Lawerance Frank even said good things about him and even Jason Kidd was expecting him to do well. He was also a rookie. He had alot of presure on him, he wanted to perform well in the playoffs for his team and all of the people that expected a good performace from him. Ofcourse its not as much presure as it was for Bosh. I was just using him as an example to show all players have pressure at some point. Too bad it didn't work though. Give him time. In the future he will become much more comfortable in the playoffs.</div>

Think of it this way, Jason Kidd mentoring him, yet he hasn't. What I'm saying is sometimes having a mentor is not was it always best for a player. By no means is it not needed, but having a Mentor who plays 40 minutes a game wasn't the best for him, and you can say keep giving him time, but I think that he will not improve to that top PG that you want to see. Sean however, will come in, raw yes, but will contribute right away.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Carter takes around 20 shots a game. Jefferson takes about 13-18. Williams is a shoot first point guard, which can change from Kidd's teachings. Not enough time and shots to be a game changer.</div>

Why do you need to take 20 shots to change a game. A game changer could make a block one 1 end, then score a big basket on the other. It can change a game because of those 2 plays. When Carter said game changer, he meant that he could alter a game with his defense and down low and post moves.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Um... I would accutually say, you do better if there is basically no one on your team. Brandon Roy had no one else to put up those stats, so he put them up and so on. Someone has to put stats, when thier is no where else to but you. You will put up stats. Like all the Rookies you mentioned had to do thier thing for thier team. Marcus Willams could not, he is the project. His job is to learn the game to be the future of the team. Playing behind one of the greatest point guards in the league will defiantly make him feel less acomplised and a little more nervous. None of those other rookies had to face the same thing.</div>

So that is it, all stats. I think a guy like Marcus, who did so well in college, would do well, no matter who was infront of him. This is why I'm saying Sean will have the better career. He was as you said "supposed to be a lottery pick" but he dropped. Right now, I think deservingly so. He should of came out with what he had, and shown that he can score 10+, have at least 5 assists. He didn't do any of that. He came out and was not a factor in most games.




<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Marcus might have bad defense, but it does not mean he cannot improve on that. While I doubt Sean Willams will be able to improve on his offensive game much more. He is athletic, but he isnt good enough to avergae 4 blocks per game, just think about that for a second dude. That is way to much. That means he has multipe nights of 6+ blocks. Yao Ming's carrier high was 7. Not even the best blockers of all time averaged that many.</div>


So what, you saying that it isn't possible for a guy to come in an average 4 blocks? Even in his rookie year, he is a great shot blocker. And you saying he can't improve his offense, well you keep saying, "Oh give Marcus time, he will get better" well, give Sean time then, his defense is already there, and that will still improve, so his offense will come with it. Also 12 PPG in college, is not bad offense for a guy who focuses tons of defense.

 

[The Legend]

<div class="quote_poster">Master Shake Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Think of it this way, Jason Kidd mentoring him, yet he hasn't. What I'm saying is sometimes having a mentor is not was it always best for a player. By no means is it not needed, but having a Mentor who plays 40 minutes a game wasn't the best for him, and you can say keep giving him time, but I think that he will not improve to that top PG that you want to see. Sean however, will come in, raw yes, but will contribute right away</div>


Yes, he will contribute right away. But, not the way you see him contibuting. He will probably next year average 7 points, 3 assits, 6 rebounds, .7 block, .5 steal at best. Even if he can do what you think he can do, he is not going to get enough miuntes to do any of it. He has to play behind, Kristic and Maglore. I see him being on the 2nd defense team in the near future, possibly 1st team.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why do you need to take 20 shots to change a game. A game changer could make a block one 1 end, then score a big basket on the other. It can change a game because of those 2 plays. When Carter said game changer, he meant that he could alter a game with his defense and down low and post moves.</div>


Yes, I can agree with that. So basically he will be a player that is the energy of the bench? Or a guy that speeds things up, switches the momunetum. (Much like Ronny Turiaf). That is not enough to lead a team at any point, even in the near future. Again the best that will get you to is a Ben Wallace type of player.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So that is it, all stats. I think a guy like Marcus, who did so well in college, would do well, no matter who was infront of him. This is why I'm saying Sean will have the better career. He was as you said "supposed to be a lottery pick" but he dropped. Right now, I think deservingly so. He should of came out with what he had, and shown that he can score 10+, have at least 5 assists. He didn't do any of that. He came out and was not a factor in most games.</div>

You are asking rookies to do way to much, you accutually expect this guys to come in and take over or something. None of these players are at the caliber of Brandon Roy, Dwight Howard, Jason Kidd, etc... They are not franchise players, the franchise rookies like Oden and Durant are expected to do something big for thir team. Like Durant is expected to averaged +15ppg because there is nobody else on the team andit is a losing team. A guy like Marcus Willams is in one of the best teams in the east, under one of the best PG's of all time. He can't put up the stats you're asking for in his rookie year. Either will Sean Willams, he is not going to be a franchise player. The best these two will be are borderline all- stars.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So what, you saying that it isn't possible for a guy to come in an average 4 blocks? Even in his rookie year, he is a great shot blocker. .</div>

For Sean Willams, YES! One he is not that good, two he is not going to get tt much playing time. A guy like Oden can do it. I could see it happen from him.