No Collins GM 1

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blazerkor said:
I think what you do in that situation is manage CJ a little different... Trent gets minutes at the three and two, CJ gets minutes at the two and more than usual at the one, Dame plays most of the game at the one... probably all but 8-10 minutes and Rio plays the minutes Trent doesn't at the three spot (Rio probably logs too many minutes in the scenario but that's the reality we are living in) and yes if you want to rest CJ or Dame a little more maybe you give Ant two little 2 minute stints. In this rotation Melo plays all of his minutes at the four spot and Gabriel gets significant minutes at the four as well. Obviously Nurk and Whiteside would play all of the minutes at five... absolutely no small ball five for us even if they go really small.
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Yeah but it is still "small ball". True we will have a true center in the line up the whole time. But the other 4 spots will be small. Trent will be guarding Lebron and Melo will be guarding AD during critical parts of the game. That will give us 4 shooters on the court, but they will be playing small ball. We have no choice but to spread the floor and get in a 3 pt shooting contest.
Thus the reason I was kind of hoping to lose the Brooklyn game. Horrible matchup.
 
Mario, Wenyen and Melo are all 6'8....they'll take the minutes...Melo only if we go smallball...Hassan and Nurk will guard McGee and Howard
 
KSF-ERIC said:
There aren’t a number of young 7 footers that have surpassed him either. He hasn’t had consistent minutes for a full season yet. I won’t judge him til after next season.
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Zach was measured at 6'10.25, so he ain't a 7 footer either

as far as young bigs that are better:

Jaren Jackson (2 years younger)
Michael Porter Jr (1 year younger)
Bam Abedayo (same age)
John Collins (same age)
Jarret Allen (7 months younger)
Thomas Bryant (same age)
Deandre Ayton (1 year younger)
Marvin Bagley (2 years younger)
Domantas Sabonis (1 year older)
Myles Turner (20 months older)
Laurie Markkanen (6 months older)

I might be forgetting players and of course, if you go 2-3 years older to guys in only in their mid-20's you have Giannis (only 25), Pascal Siakam, Montrazel Harrell, Anthony Davis, Kristaps Porzingas, Clint Capela, Joel Embiid, Jusuf Nurkic, Nicola Jokic

honestly, at this point, if you made a list of young bigs that are worse than Zach it would be shorter than the list of those better
 
Tince said:
It is crazy. I'm also surprised how many people think losing Collins is addition by subtraction. Despite his lackluster play in the bubble, I don't think him being out makes us better.
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Portland was already hurting for depth. And they face AD. Zach even giving the Blazers a mediocre 20 minutes a game would be a help. If either Nurkic or Whiteside get in foul trouble, Portland is going to have big problems
 
wizenheimer said:
Zach was measured at 6'10.25, so he ain't a 7 footer either

as far as young bigs that are better:

Jaren Jackson (2 years younger)
Michael Porter Jr (1 year younger)
Bam Abedayo (same age)
John Collins (same age)
Jarret Allen (7 months younger)
Thomas Bryant (same age)
Deandre Ayton (1 year younger)
Marvin Bagley (2 years younger)
Domantas Sabonis (1 year older)
Myles Turner (20 months older)
Laurie Markkanen (6 months older)

I might be forgetting players and of course, if you go 2-3 years older to guys in only in their mid-20's you have Giannis (only 25), Pascal Siakam, Montrazel Harrell, Anthony Davis, Kristaps Porzingas, Clint Capela, Joel Embiid, Jusuf Nurkic, Nicola Jokic

honestly, at this point, if you made a list of young bigs that are worse than Zach it would be shorter than the list of those better
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Many of those you list play SF. Zach is a C/PF.

Zack can defend the rim, defend out to the 3pt line,, and shows skills on offense,

I'm not saying he is an allstar prospect or proven rotational player, he is not.

But hes not worth completely giving up on. Are there other superior players we could've taken at #10? Sure, but we can't change that now.

There's 15 roster spots, hes better than other options if healthy this post season and either way hes worth looking at more next season.

Now if you are saying we shouldn't consider him a core starter in the offseason, I'm on board and would be happy with a superior option if such an addition becomes feasible.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Many of those you list play SF. Zach is a C/PF.

Zack can defend the rim, defend out to the 3pt line,, and shows skills on offense,

I'm not saying he is an allstar prospect or proven rotational player, he is not.

But hes not worth completely giving up on. Are there other superior players we could've taken at #10? Sure, but we can't change that now.

There's 15 roster spots, hes better than other options if healthy this post season and either way hes worth looking at more next season.

Now if you are saying we shouldn't consider him a core starter in the offseason, I'm on board and would be happy with a superior option if such an addition becomes feasible.
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I'm not saying "give up on him"...just that penciling him in as the PFOTF, as he has been so often, is a bit loopy...he hasn't earned that distinction. Aminu was better

He's also not that young any more. He'll turn 23 in 3 months. Shit, I remember the Meyers is still young bullshit when he was 25
 
wizenheimer said:
I'm not saying "give up on him"...just that penciling him in as the PFOTF, as he has been so often, is a bit loopy...he hasn't earned that distinction. Aminu was better

He's also not that young any more. He'll turn 23 in 3 months. Shit, I remember the Meyers is still young bullshit when he was 25
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Yeah, the Meyers contract was so stupid for Neil to hand out....
 
Tince said:
It is crazy. I'm also surprised how many people think losing Collins is addition by subtraction. Despite his lackluster play in the bubble, I don't think him being out makes us better.
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Gaberial will do just as well as Collins. I have faith in Gaberial. The bar isn’t that high on matching Collins production
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Many of those you list play SF. Zach is a C/PF.
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Jaren Jackson - PF/C
Bam Abedayo - PF/C
John Collins - PF/C
Jarret Allen - C
Thomas Bryant - C
Deandre Ayton - C
Marvin Bagley - C/PF
Domantas Sabonis - PF/C
Myles Turner - C
Laurie Markkanen - PF/C
Giannis - PF/C
Pascal Siakam - PF
Montrazel Harrell - PF/C
Anthony Davis - PF/C
Kristaps Porzingis - PF/C
Clint Capela - C
Joel Embiid - C
Jusuf Nurkic - C
Nicola Jokic - C

Literally the only one with minutes at SF: Michael Porter Jr - 3% of minutes have come at SF, 87% of minutes at PF and apparently he's even played some C (10%) in small ball line ups.

If we could somehow turn Zach Collins into a Cody Martin + Jalen McDaniels or Malik Monk over the summer, I'd be all for it.
 
I’d go with a seven man rotation - no Mario. Gabriel looks better than Zach albeit on a small sample size and certainly better than Mario. I’d plan to play Gabriel 30 min and see what happens. Nurk, Hassan, Gabriel have to make a concerted effort to stay out of foul trouble.
 
trent on the goat and melo on the brow...I am in a tailspin.
 
wizenheimer said:
I'm not saying "give up on him"...just that penciling him in as the PFOTF, as he has been so often, is a bit loopy...he hasn't earned that distinction. Aminu was better

He's also not that young any more. He'll turn 23 in 3 months. Shit, I remember the Meyers is still young bullshit when he was 25
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I still can’t believe he was a top 10 pick
 
AldoTrapani said:
Gaberial will do just as well as Collins. I have faith in Gaberial. The bar isn’t that high on matching Collins production
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This is the type of take that surprises me. Totally dismisses depth. Even if you don't think Collins has an impact on the game, we don't have a long list of people who can defend 6'10-6'11' mobile bigs.
 
AldoTrapani said:
I still can’t believe he was a top 10 pick
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In the 20 years up to Zach these are the 10th pick in the NBA Draft: Danny Fortson had a double double season but that was his only good healthy season put up worse numbers than Zach besides that, Paul Pierce HOFer and best guy on this list, Jason Terry who was good, Keyon Dooling was worse than Zach to this point and never did anything, Rodney White who sucked his entire but brief NBA career before playing in Europe, Caron Butler who was really good, Jarvis Hayes who was not good, Luke Jackson a local product who was really really bad in the NBA, Andrew Bynum who had a short career but was very good for a bit and had a ton of hype, Mouhamed Sene who played 47 games in the league over four seasons averaging 5 minutes a game and it wasn't because of injuries, Spencer Hawes who was not great but solid, Brook Lopez who we know about pretty good pick, Brandon Jennings who had one great season and was an OK pro, Paul George is an all-NBA two way superstar but took a little time to come up, Jimmer Fredette never made a dent in the NBA, Austin Rivers who is a starter or really good sixth man now but was a non-factor his first four seasons, CJ who is CJ so that was a hit, Elfrid Peyton who has started but isn't a bust but also wasn't a huge hit, Justice Winslow who is a solid NBA player but whose first three seasons didn't show much, Thon Maker not a real contributor but a nice idea and then Zach.

So eight complete misses, 4 all-star or better players some of whom didn't look like it after a couple of seasons, 3 really good starters and the rest are no better or worse than Zach has been if Zach gets no better. When you make statements like you can't believe that Zach was a top ten pick it undercuts the little credibility you have. These are just the number 10 picks the amount of busts 1-9 that we won't even get into is staggering. Do you know anything about the history of this league? Do you know how long it takes big guys who are not superstars but can be very solid starters to develop normally? I mean seriously man this shit you say seems to have zero context.
 
blazerkor said:
In the 20 years up to Zach these are the 10th pick in the NBA Draft: Danny Fortson had a double double season but that was his only good healthy season put up worse numbers than Zach besides that, Paul Pierce HOFer and best guy on this list, Jason Terry who was good, Keyon Dooling was worse than Zach to this point and never did anything, Rodney White who sucked his entire but brief NBA career before playing in Europe, Caron Butler who was really good, Jarvis Hayes who was not good, Luke Jackson a local product who was really really bad in the NBA, Andrew Bynum who had a short career but was very good for a bit and had a ton of hype, Mouhamed Sene who played 47 games in the league over four seasons averaging 5 minutes a game and it wasn't because of injuries, Spencer Hawes who was not great but solid, Brook Lopez who we know about pretty good pick, Brandon Jennings who had one great season and was an OK pro, Paul George is an all-NBA two way superstar but took a little time to come up, Jimmer Fredette never made a dent in the NBA, Austin Rivers who is a starter or really good sixth man now but was a non-factor his first four seasons, CJ who is CJ so that was a hit, Elfrid Peyton who has started but isn't a bust but also wasn't a huge hit, Justice Winslow who is a solid NBA player but whose first three seasons didn't show much, Thon Maker not a real contributor but a nice idea and then Zach.

So eight complete misses, 4 all-star or better players some of whom didn't look like it after a couple of seasons, 3 really good starters and the rest are no better or worse than Zach has been if Zach gets no better. When you make statements like you can't believe that Zach was a top ten pick it undercuts the little credibility you have. These are just the number 10 picks the amount of busts 1-9 that we won't even get into is staggering. Do you know anything about the history of this league? Do you know how long it takes big guys who are not superstars but can be very solid starters to develop normally? I mean seriously man this shit you say seems to have zero context.
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Exactly. This was supposed to be Collins’ first full season as starting PF but he got hurt. Waaayyyy too early to judge Collins. Barkley said Collins is going to be a star, by the way. Barkley is wrong about some things but he knows the PF position.
 
KSF-ERIC said:
Exactly. This was supposed to be Collins’ first full season as starting PF but he got hurt. Waaayyyy too early to judge Collins. Barkley said Collins is going to be a star, by the way. Barkley is wrong about some things but he knows the PF position.
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"Meyers is only in his tenth season! You have to be patient with big men!"

Really good players show it from day 1 - maybe not consistently, but they show something special. Collins is the kind of guy they used to draft in the second round and pay peanuts as a 9th or 10th man. I miss the days when you could dip into the 3rd or 4th round and find legit players (eg Larry Steele or Lloyd Neal) better than the crap getting picked in round 1 today. Yes there are more teams - but there is more to it than that. Players are being drafted to damn young. If Collins had stayed in school for another 2 years, he would have been an UDFA.
 
Meyers is in his 8th season but I understand your point. I think it’s worth being patient with Collins. He didn’t even start in college. Let’s see what he looks like a year from now. If there is even a 2020-21 season.
 
KSF-ERIC said:
Meyers is in his 8th season but I understand your point. I think it’s worth being patient with Collins. He didn’t even start in college. Let’s see what he looks like a year from now. If there is even a 2020-21 season.
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That right there is my big fear: will there be a 20-21 season at all? I can see the league using covid as an excuse to tear up the CBA - resulting in a work stoppage that could kill the NBA as we know it.
 
KSF-ERIC said:
Meyers is in his 8th season but I understand your point. I think it’s worth being patient with Collins. He didn’t even start in college. Let’s see what he looks like a year from now. If there is even a 2020-21 season.
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Are you saying the 2020-2021 season might not happen?
 
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