No Comments on the "Dream Act" Passing the House last night?

[Natebishop3]

It's a free country. That means yes.

In true capitalist fashion, I say we make people pay to gain citizenship. Ten grand sounds about right.

We accept payments.

 

[MARIS61]

You should find out.

barfo

There are specific limits for each country. They are set based mostly on economic factors as any massive immigration surge can destroy a country financially unprepared for it. I believe it and everything else you could possibly want to know about immigration to the US is readily avaiable at this official website:

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis

It's actually the easiest thing in the world. Anyone too lazy or stupid to follow the steps required would be a drain on our society, not an asset.

And anyone who comes here illegally is far worse. They should be deported and banned from America for life.

 

[MARIS61]

There is a lot of property for sale these days, and no law against non-citizens owning it.

I've written nothing inconsistent with my first post.

Unfortunately not. That is one reason America is so poor compared to decades ago.

We've sold the only thing we had of real worth.

Japan now owns over half of the private property in Oregon. And they're not the only country that owns us.

Very little of America is actually ours anymore.

 

[MARIS61]

Your whole premise is ridiculous. We are a nation of laws and when people break the law, they should not be rewarded. "International crime against humanity"? If a bunch of squatter started living in your house and eating your food, using your showers for free, and watching television, you'd want them the fuck out.

You're simply enforcing the federal law, namely, people who entered the country illegally...should not be here. Why even have customs enforcement? Let everyone through the flood gates.

What do youi expect?

Denny Crane is a lawyer, and therefore has absolutely no respect for the law.

It is his practice, literally, to find ways around it.

He wipes his ass with the Constitution.

 

[barfo]

There are specific limits for each country. They are set based mostly on economic factors as any massive immigration surge can destroy a country financially unprepared for it. I believe it and everything else you could possibly want to know about immigration to the US is readily avaiable at this official website:

WTF? That is not an "official website". That's the website of a company which profits off of immigration.

It's actually the easiest thing in the world.

No, actually, it is far from the easiest thing in the world. For most people, it's quite literally impossible.

barfo

 

[barfo]

Japan now owns over half of the private property in Oregon.

Link? I seriously doubt that statistic.

Are you talking acreage or economic value? Either way I think it is false.

barfo

 

[barfo]

Denny Crane is a lawyer, and therefore has absolutely no respect for the law.

It is his practice, literally, to find ways around it.

He wipes his ass with the Constitution.

This I agree with.

barfo

 

[MARIS61]

It's a free country. That means yes.

It's not a free country. That's ridiculous.

We no longer have rights in this country. We have "privileges".

Cameras everywhere, DHS bugs on your personal PC, UA's to have the privilege of employment, forced sexual abuse for the privilege of travel, fees for the privilege to walk in the woods on "public land". Government jobs doled out on basis of race, minimum age limits for NBA players, "special rights" for everyone who lives here legally or illegally EXCEPT for a legal, non-handicapped, non-veteran, caucasian male citizen.

This country is the antithesis of free.

 

[MARIS61]

No, actually, it is far from the easiest thing in the world. For most people, it's quite literally impossible.
barfo

You really have a low opinion of Mexicans.

You must think they're absolute morons, and as lazy as they are dishonest.

I know many legal immigrants to this country. Regular folks. Not rich. Not geniuses.

They have never complained about how "hard" it was to immigrate legally to the US.

Obviously, for them anyway, it wasn't "impossible". The bar is not set very high at all.

In fact, the quotas set for immigration are filled each year by people who had no problem simply because they weren't criminals, insane, or destitute.

WTF? That is not an "official website". That's the website of a company which profits off of immigration.
barfo

Sorry, wrong link. I've edited the post now.

 

[barfo]

You really have a low opinion of Mexicans.

You must think they're absolute morons, and as lazy as they are dishonest.

I know many legal immigrants to this country. Regular folks. Not rich. Not geniuses.

They have never complained about how "hard" it was to immigrate legally to the US.

Obviously, for them anyway, it wasn't "impossible". The bar is not set very high at all.

In fact, the quotas set for immigration are filled each year by people who had no problem simply because they weren't criminals, insane, or destitute.

Yeah, right. Tell me, how many Mexicans are allowed to legally immigrate to the US per year? And excluding farm workers, how many?

barfo

 

[MARIS61]

Yeah, right. Tell me, how many Mexicans are allowed to legally immigrate to the US per year? And excluding farm workers, how many?

barfo

The correct amount to still leave proportionate amounts for people from all other countries of the world, without putting our country in danger.

Maybe you don't really know anything about Mexico because nobody has given you a link, but it's got 110 million people, and a large minority of them are really bad, murderous types. The rest are mostly cowards. So about 104 million of them want to move here. Because they're too gutless and unpatriotic to try to fix their own country so it's liveable. It's easier to reap the benefits that Americans worked to achieve. Even if they have to break the law to do ti.


110 million people. That's the population of 29 Oregons.

They can't ALL come here.

So we have a set number each year, and we let in the most deserving people who have enough respect for our country to follow our procedure to obtain citizenship. It's a great system, but it needs to be backed up with rifles at the borders, and internment camps for those caught in our country illegally.

 

[MARIS61]

The estimated number of illegals from each country is taken into account when setting limits on immigration, so about 15 million or more law abiding Mexicans are being refused citizenship because 15 million Mexican criminals are here illegally.

If you want to cry for Mexicans, at least cry for the ones being wronged.

 

[bodyman5001]

Ok, first of all I am probably towards the top of the "we need to deport every illegal at any cost" list.

That said, I think that if you are a kid who was brought here by your parents when you were three years old that we need to find a way to grant you citizenship if you want it.

However, the fact that we still allow any legal immigration from Mexico is disgusting. We have untold millions of them in stock already. Yeah, I used the term stock as if they are inanimate objects. Sue me.

Despite the fact that Maris loved that Mexican Sergio so much, he is right about how much freedom we have lost in this country.

(I know Sergio isn't Mexican but I use the term Mexican for anyone with a hispanic sounding name, add that to your lawsuit)

I tell my best Mexican friends that when I become King that I will deport them LAST. A few of my good friends are Mexican, I just can't avoid liking them as they are great people. It would be akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater if I had my way and they were sent home.

I am not a very sympathetic person and while I understand why someone from another country would want to come here illegally I also understand why people like me would want to prevent it.

Lucky for all of you, I won't ever really be King.
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But I should.

 

[barfo]

The correct amount to still leave proportionate amounts for people from all other countries of the world, without putting our country in danger.

And what is that number?

Maybe you don't really know anything about Mexico because nobody has given you a link, but it's got 110 million people, and a large minority of them are really bad, murderous types. The rest are mostly cowards.

You've met them all? If not, this statement seems indefensible.

So we have a set number each year, and we let in the most deserving people who have enough respect for our country to follow our procedure to obtain citizenship.

And tell me, what is that set number?

barfo

 

[MARIS61]

And what is that number?



You've met them all? If not, this statement seems indefensible.



And tell me, what is that set number?

barfo

Do your own homework because to me the number matters not. Our government representatives have determined how many we can handle, and WHO we can handle. Most illegals are here because they wouldn't get in anyway as they are either have criminal records in Mexico, have mental issues, are destitute, or are drug cartel members. The dream act would give them free passage to citizenship in exchange for barring nice people from coming here.

If it's 30,000 a year or zero a year makes no difference. It is what it is.

To push your emotional and racist preferences and your disdain for our representative government and justice system on others is your right to some extent, but you have presented no arguement to support such nonsense.

As for calling Mexicans cowards when they abandon their country for greener pastures, rather than work hard to build a better one, I think that's obvious.

What would you call them? Patriots?

 

[Denny Crane]

LOL at the government deciding what's good for us.

 

[MARIS61]

Here's some hard facts from the Jordan Commission, which was the last serious study our government did on the issue:

http://www.fairus.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=21679&security=1601&news_iv_ctrl=1006

and a list of the dangerous problems presented by Census Bureau data that shows that over 80 percent of future U.S. population growth will be due to immigration.

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageNavigator/issues/population_and_environment/

Read the details or remain ignorant by choice.

 

[Denny Crane]

I hear all those Mexicans want to come here to be realtors. Scared of the competition or something?

 

[barfo]

Do your own homework because to me the number matters not.

Right, why bother learning the facts? What a waste of time if you've already got an opinion!

Our government representatives have determined how many we can handle, and WHO we can handle. Most illegals are here because they wouldn't get in anyway as they are either have criminal records in Mexico, have mental issues, are destitute, or are drug cartel members.

The destitute part at least has some relation to reality, since most come for the greater economic opportunity here.

The dream act would give them free passage to citizenship in exchange for barring nice white people from coming here.

Fixed that for you.

If it's 30,000 a year or zero a year makes no difference. It is what it is.

And yet you objected to my statement that it was impossible for some to immigrate legally. If the number is zero, wouldn't that make it impossible?

To push your emotional and racist preferences and your disdain for our representative government and justice system on others is your right to some extent, but you have presented no arguement to support such nonsense.

Are you confusing me with someone else? What position have I taken that you are dismissing here? The idea that some people can't legally immigrate?

As for calling Mexicans cowards when they abandon their country for greener pastures, rather than work hard to build a better one, I think that's obvious.

First of all, you applied the coward label to the entire population of Mexico, not just those that come here. And secondly, were your ancestors cowards when they came here?

What would you call them? Patriots?

Humans.

barfo

 

[MARIS61]

Why should I bother learning the facts? What a waste of time since I've already got an opinion!

barfo

fixed.

 

[oldguy]

My first outrage over this act has to do with how it is being enacted with very little reporting on it to the people. A huge majority of the citizens of the US are against any kind of amnesty, yet I didn’t get any newsletters from my congressmen, I didn’t read about it in the Register Guard. Was there any reporting on this in the Oregonian? Did anyone see it on network news? I don’t watch every day, but I never saw it. I mentioned it passing the House to 7-8 co-workers, and none of them had any idea it was even being considered. These were all professional people that take an interest in politics.

Here are my specific concerns about the DREAM Act (DA):
First and foremost, the DA does nothing to stop further illegal immigration into the US. It merely gives some illegals a path to citizenship. Show me some legislation that stops the illegal crossing of our southern border, THEN come and tell me about how to help out the youngest of the illegals. I’m not interested in one damned thing to help illegals until the government stops the tidal wave of people coming here illegally. End of discussion, for me.

The DA gives illegal aliens access to federal Pell grants. Personally, since so many actual citizens cannot afford college, this is absurd. Why should non-citizens get government loans? I have zero interest in spending even more money supporting people that come here illegally.

They talk of the potential for 2,000,000 illegals to gain legal status under this legislation. The DA seems to be open-ended, and specifically states that there are no numerical limits on the number of people it might legalize. Unless the swarming of illegals coming here are stopped, this will be a never ending process.

The DA requires that the alien has been physically present in the United States for a continuous period of not less than 5 years immediately preceding the date of the enactment of this Act and was younger than 16 years of age on the date the alien initially entered the United States. How many of these folks can document that? How picky will the liberal US government be about that documentation. Will they form ACORN type groups to help bastardize the process and defraud the government by helping illegals that can’t meet the requirements of the act? Hard to believe they wouldn’t.

The hardship section will be a catchall for those that can’t meet the requirements. The Secretary of Homeland Security will create the administrative rules for how the bill will be implemented. That’s when most folks will find out what this all really means.

The idea that the illegals will pay up their back taxes is ridiculous, as they are undocumented. Let’s have a show of hands for who thinks illegals will admit to all the money they owe taxes on, when that can’t be traced?

It feels like nothing more than yet another means to incrementally legalize illegal aliens. Not only that. If an illegal does gain the path to citizenship, then does something to lose that status, they are not deported, they merely return to an illegal status. Whatever.

The US is already in debt up to our great-grandchildrens’ asses. Why would we want to continue to spend money to support and educate a population that takes our jobs in a time of record unemployment for our own citizens?

Go Blazers

 

[barfo]

My first outrage over this act has to do with how it is being enacted with very little reporting on it to the people. A huge majority of the citizens of the US are against any kind of amnesty

That doesn't seem to be the case:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/145136/Slim-Majority-Americans-Vote-DREAM-Act-Law.aspx

Fifty-four percent favor granting legal status to illegal immigrants brought to U.S. as children

barfo

 

[barfo]

First and foremost, the DA does nothing to stop further illegal immigration into the US. It merely gives some illegals a path to citizenship. Show me some legislation that stops the illegal crossing of our southern border, THEN come and tell me about how to help out the youngest of the illegals. I’m not interested in one damned thing to help illegals until the government stops the tidal wave of people coming here illegally. End of discussion, for me.

How, exactly, do you propose the government does that? We already spend $10 billion/year on border security, up 55% in the last 4 years. How much more of your tax money do you think we should throw at the problem, and how effective do you think more money would be at stopping border crossings?

barfo

 

[MARIS61]

How, exactly, do you propose the government does that? We already spend $10 billion/year on border security, up 55% in the last 4 years. How much more of your tax money do you think we should throw at the problem, and how effective do you think more money would be at stopping border crossings?

barfo

Throw LESS money, not more.

If the border is not treated like a line drawn in the sand, it is meaningless and will never be respected.

The only countries that have no illegal immigration problems are the countries that insist on respect for their borders.

For a couple million dollars per year the government could position enough snipers at the dozen or so main crossing sites that within a few months of media coverage of the slaughter Mexicans would completely abandon the notion of attempting illegal border crossings into America.

It's truly that simple.

 

[barfo]

Throw LESS money, not more.

If the border is not treated like a line drawn in the sand, it is meaningless and will never be respected.

The only countries that have no illegal immigration problems are the countries that insist on respect for their borders.

For a couple million dollars per year the government could position enough snipers at the dozen or so main crossing sites that within a few months of media coverage of the slaughter Mexicans would completely abandon the notion of attempting illegal border crossings into America.

It's truly that simple.

Can we do the same at the CA/OR and WA/OR borders too? I don't like them Californians and Washingtonians stealing our jobs and peeing in our toilets.

barfo

 

[MARIS61]

Results for this Gallup poll are based on telephone interviews conducted Dec. 3-6, 2010, on the Gallup Daily tracking survey, with a random sample of 1,003 adults, aged 18 and older, living in all 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia, selected using random-digit-dial sampling.

For results based on the total sample of national adults, one can say with 95% confidence that the maximum margin of sampling error is ±4 percentage points.

Interviews are conducted with respondents on landline telephones (for respondents with a landline telephone) and cellular phones (for respondents who are cell phone-only). Each sample includes a minimum quota of 150 cell phone-only respondents and 850 landline respondents, with additional minimum quotas among landline respondents for gender within region. Landline respondents are chosen at random within each household on the basis of which member had the most recent birthday.

Samples are weighted by gender, age, race, education, region, and phone lines. Demographic weighting targets are based on the March 2009 Current Population Survey figures for the aged 18 and older non-institutionalized population living in continental U.S. telephone households. All reported margins of sampling error include the computed design effects for weighting and sample design.

In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls.


Garbage in, garbage out.

One in 50 households are so poor they have no phone at all.

Additionally, the tens of millions of homeless are nearly all phoneless.

For quite obvious reasons of self-preservation, the vast majority of these unpolled people are opposed to the Dream Act.

 

[MARIS61]

Can we do the same at the CA/OR and WA/OR borders too? I don't like them Californians and Washingtonians stealing our jobs and peeing in our toilets.

barfo

It's clear you are not up to an adult debate on the subject.

 

[barfo]

Garbage in, garbage out.

One in 50 households are so poor they have no phone at all.

Additionally, the tens of millions of homeless are nearly all phoneless.

For quite obvious reasons of self-preservation, the vast majority of these unpolled people are opposed to the Dream Act.

One in 50 households is only 2%.

The number of homeless in the US is not tens of millions.

barfo

 

[barfo]

It's clear you are not up to an adult debate on the subject.

What's the difference? You don't like Mexicans, I don't like Californians. It's ok with me if you shoot Mexicans, as long as I get to shoot Californians. Fair is fair.

barfo

 

[oldguy]

That doesn't seem to be the case:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/145136/Slim-Majority-Americans-Vote-DREAM-Act-Law.aspx

barfo

Here’s a link http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/04/10/rel5o.pdf to the CNN poll from earlier this year that I was referencing:

The question asked was:

"Do you think the United States should or should not make it easier for illegal immigrants to become citizens of the United States?"

66% answered ‘should not’.

Here’s the Gallup question you reference:

"Suppose that on Election Day you could vote on key issues as well as candidates. Please tell me whether you would vote for or against a law that would do each of the following. First, would you vote for or against a law that would allow illegal immigrants brought to the US as children to gain legal resident status if they join the military or go to college?"

As you know, the results of any poll are influenced by the way the question is asked. Do you think it would influence the percentage approving if they also asked, "Would you support giving illegal aliens federal Pell grants to pay for their college?" Or, "Would you support giving illegal residents in-state tuition rates to help them gain legal status?" Or, if the poll explained that the law calls for them to attend college….it doesn’t say they have to complete a program or obtain a degree?

The Gallup link you cite admits that it’s not clear how much the people know about the particulars of the bill, which would seem to reinforce my claim that it has not been widely reported.

If they put this to a vote of the people, I would live with the results even if I didn’t like them. Passage of this kind of bill on my behalf, by a bunch of self-serving politicians, doesn’t work for me.

Go Blazers