No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Finds

[barfo]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

Another strawman.

Don't know what you are talking about. What strawman?

I urge that we stop subsidizing money losing propositions and spend a reasonable amount of money on research.

Ok.

As for $trillions, it's what your ilk proposed for much of the Bush years.

That doesn't seem highly relevant. One might even call it a strawman.

Now your guys are in control, and the costs are certain to be there, be they in the form of carbon taxes, higher CAFE standards, or regulations requiring X% of energy to be "green" by (pick a year).

Ok, so basically we haven't spent trillions, we aren't spending trillions, but you are afraid we might spend trillions. Ok. At least now I know what we are talking about.

We don't have to spend $1 trillion in one year for the spending to add up to that kind of figure. $100B a year for 10 years does the trick, and is insanity.

For that matter, spending $1 a year for a trillion years would also add up to that kind of figure. We certainly can't afford that kind of spending.

As it stands right now, electricity and gas and oil account for well over $1T of our GDP. At 10% of that as mandated alternative energy, then we're foolishly spending $100B / year on a money losing proposition.

Y'know, there is more to life than money. Sometimes buying the cheapest item available isn't the best choice.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

Don't know what you are talking about. What strawman?



Ok.



That doesn't seem highly relevant. One might even call it a strawman.



Ok, so basically we haven't spent trillions, we aren't spending trillions, but you are afraid we might spend trillions. Ok. At least now I know what we are talking about.



For that matter, spending $1 a year for a trillion years would also add up to that kind of figure. We certainly can't afford that kind of spending.



Y'know, there is more to life than money. Sometimes buying the cheapest item available isn't the best choice.

barfo

But buying the cheapest item that's identical to the more expensive one is common sense.

 

[barfo]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

But buying the cheapest item that's identical to the more expensive one is common sense.

Energy from oil and energy from sunshine aren't identical. We don't have to fight wars for sunshine. Wars cost money.

barfo

 

[tlongII]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

Energy from oil and energy from sunshine aren't identical. We don't have to fight wars for sunshine. Wars cost money.

barfo

We don't have to fight wars for oil either barfo.

 

[barfo]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

We don't have to fight wars for oil either barfo.

We don't have to, but we do.

barfo

 

[drexlersdad]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

Energy from oil and energy from sunshine aren't identical. We don't have to fight wars for sunshine. Wars cost money.

barfo

 

[barfo]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

I like.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

As of Dec. 9, there were 44 bidders for production in 15 Iraqi oil fields. Yet before the war, we were the only country buying their oil in the oil for food scam.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/6762303.html+iraq+oil+sales&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

A total of 44 companies will make their pitch this week, vying for the 15 fields — the largest of the reserves located in Iraq's relatively calm Shiite-dominated south.

They include Exxon Mobil, Britain's BP, Conoco Phillips, Chevron and Total, plus state-backed companies from such countries as Russia, India, Kazakhstan and Angola.

While they represent the best — if not only — option for Iraq's hope to rebuild an oil sector suffering alternately from decades of neglect, war and sabotage, what remains to be seen is whether these firms are willing to accept less lucrative contract provisions to stake their claim to a piece of the Middle East's last major oil and gas bonanza.

 

[barfo]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

As of Dec. 9, there were 44 bidders for production in 15 Iraqi oil fields. Yet before the war, we were the only country buying their oil in the oil for food scam.

When I said we fought wars for oil, I didn't mean in the simple sense of "let's take over the oil fields and keep it all for ourselves". We are, for better or for worse, slightly more sophisticated than that. Keeping the oil flowing is the goal, who pumps it and pipes it is not a major concern as long as it keeps flowing. Having multiple parties involved is a good thing.

barfo

 

[HailBlazers]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

ScienceDaily (Dec. 31, 2009) — ...es, is the largest living structure on Earth.

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

When I said we fought wars for oil, I didn't mean in the simple sense of "let's take over the oil fields and keep it all for ourselves". We are, for better or for worse, slightly more sophisticated than that. Keeping the oil flowing is the goal, who pumps it and pipes it is not a major concern as long as it keeps flowing. Having multiple parties involved is a good thing.

barfo

We have no obligation to fight wars so the Russian oil companies can cut deals with Iraq. Eh?

So we didn't fight the war for oil at all. More for the freedom of the people to elect their government to use their oil for their best interests.

I'm glad you agree.

 

[barfo]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

We have no obligation to fight wars so the Russian oil companies can cut deals with Iraq. Eh?

So we didn't fight the war for oil at all. More for the freedom of the people to elect their government to use their oil for their best interests.

I'm glad you agree.

Nonsense. We ignore tinpot dictators all over the globe. We never would have been in Iraq if it had no oil. To pretend like oil has nothing to do with it is kind of what-planet-are-you-from comical.

barfo

 

[mobes23]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

If all that CO2 is going to the oceans, the pH will go up and the next thing you'll hear is about the impact of higher acidity. Better save those seashells because you'll be seeing less of 'em.

 

[barfo]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

If all that CO2 is going to the oceans, the pH will go up and the next thing you'll hear is about the impact of higher acidity. Better save those seashells because you'll be seeing less of 'em.

Ah, who gives a shit about seashells. We can make synthetic seashells from petroleum products! And we can make fake shellfish from other fish. And when the fish are gone, we can teach cows how to swim, and have seabeef. Mmm, seabeef.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

Nonsense. We ignore tinpot dictators all over the globe. We never would have been in Iraq if it had no oil. To pretend like oil has nothing to do with it is kind of what-planet-are-you-from comical.

barfo

Afghanistan has no oil.

 

[barfo]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

Afghanistan has no oil.

What was that word you were using? Strawman, was it?

I never said all the wars we fight are about oil, did I?

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

What was that word you were using? Strawman, was it?

I never said all the wars we fight are about oil, did I?

barfo

Not a strawman. You say we fight wars over oil. I say we don't, and that Iraq has oil was more of a coincidence (and funded Saddam's evil intentions). Otherwise we'd have seized the oil and kept it all for ourselves, certainly not allowed Iraq to do deals with the Russians and Chinese (who didn't help us one bit).

 

[barfo]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

Not a strawman. You say we fight wars over oil. I say we don't, and that Iraq has oil was more of a coincidence (and funded Saddam's evil intentions). Otherwise we'd have seized the oil and kept it all for ourselves, certainly not allowed Iraq to do deals with the Russians and Chinese (who didn't help us one bit).

Well, if you truly believe that, there's nothing more we need to say on the topic.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

If all that CO2 is going to the oceans, the pH will go up and the next thing you'll hear is about the impact of higher acidity. Better save those seashells because you'll be seeing less of 'em.

Higher pH is alakine

The oceans are alkaline, not acidic

if the oceans become more acidic, the pH would lower.

If you're really interested, the great barrier reef has done better and better as the climate has warmed.

http://debunkhouse.wordpress.com/

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

What was that word you were using? Strawman, was it?

I never said all the wars we fight are about oil, did I?

barfo

Only the wars you want to assert are about oil are about oil?

Iraq wasn't much of a war, btw. It was over in a few weeks.

 

[barfo]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

Only the wars you want to assert are about oil are about oil?

Different wars can be fought for different reasons. That seems kind of obvious.

Iraq wasn't much of a war, btw. It was over in a few weeks.

And they greeted us as heroes and everyone lived happily ever after. Mission Accomplished!

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

Different wars can be fought for different reasons. That seems kind of obvious.



And they greeted us as heroes and everyone lived happily ever after. Mission Accomplished!

barfo

We bought all the oil in the oil for food program before the war. After the war, Iraq is selling oil to the Russians and Chinese. So fighting the war about oil doesn't fit the scenario you paint.

 

[barfo]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

We bought all the oil in the oil for food program before the war. After the war, Iraq is selling oil to the Russians and Chinese. So fighting the war about oil doesn't fit the scenario you paint.

It doesn't matter who buys Iraq's oil. Oil is fungible. It just matters that it is freely flowing, so that the total world supply is larger, so that prices are lower.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

It doesn't matter who buys Iraq's oil. Oil is fungible. It just matters that it is freely flowing, so that the total world supply is larger, so that prices are lower.

barfo

Prices aren't lower, they're 2x what they should be.

Any more theories to share?

 

[barfo]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

Prices aren't lower, they're 2x what they should be.

Based on what?

Any more theories to share?

So, you think price and supply are completely unconnected, is that what you think?

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

The last price I saw was $80, yesterday.

Surely there isn't an increase in demand or decrease in actual supply since mid-2004 that justifies 2x the price.

 

[barfo]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

The last price I saw was $80, yesterday.

Surely there isn't an increase in demand or decrease in actual supply since mid-2004 that justifies 2x the price.

Why do you assume the price in 2004 was correct? Maybe today's price is correct and 2004's price was 2x too low.

What is the definition of "correct price"?

barfo

 

[maxiep]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

Obviously, there's a 99% chance that global warming is a hoax. Just like there's a 99% chance that if I leave a handgun lying in one room, with shells in another room within easy reach, my 4 year old won't figure out a way to shoot himself. So really there's no point in worrying about either. Some risks are just worth it.

Besides, imagine if we made a massive effort to clean our atmosphere and wean the world off middle eastern oil, only to find for 100% certain global warming was a hoax. We'd be stuck with all these new energy sources and clean air for no damned reason.

And if making that transition were costless, then I'd be all for it. Unfortunately, that cost would be crippling to our economy and wouldn't matter anyway as long as the Chinese, Indians and Brazilians won't play along.

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

And if making that transition were costless, then I'd be all for it. Unfortunately, that cost would be crippling to our economy and wouldn't matter anyway as long as the Chinese, Indians and Brazilians won't play along.

I was about to raise this point a post or two from now...

The cost of being aggressive about reducing CO2 emissions may well be 30% unemployment and $2T deficits forever. Seems like some people want to sacrifice being a 1st world nation to change the world (as they see it).

Is it worth the price, I ask. And how about we sacrifice government instead of the industries who employ tens of millions of people?

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: No Rise of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Fraction in Past 160 Years, New Research Fi

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