No way we're keeping this pick

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Protecting the rim doesn't have to mean blocked shots though, does it? Gortat seems to rotate well and "get in the way" on defense. He has a 105 defensive rating on the Suns, which is like a 102 rating anywhere else :)

What I don't like is his FTA per game of 2.3. His career FTA per game is poor also. Although he did shoot the majority of his shots in the key, so maybe it's something else?
 
The Dude said:
Protecting the rim doesn't have to mean blocked shots though, does it?
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Absolutely not. Blocked shots does not necessarily mean "good defense". I'll take a good defender who doesn't block many shots over a mediocre defender who blocks "tons" of shots. I think basing a defensive decision on BPG is silly - generally the league-leader averages about 3BPG. While that CAN be the difference in whether you win or lose a particular game, it shouldn't be the difference between being a good defensive team or a bad team. AT BEST, that's saving you 6ppg - and that's assuming that every shot that's blocked would have gone through the hoop. Given that good interior players shoot around 60%, the league-leader in blocks is actually only saving you roughly 3.6ppg. And again, that's assuming 60% of the shots would go in...which is a stretch when you factor in that guards don't shoot 60% in the paint.
I love blocked shots - but they are just a "defensive dunk".
 
Youre also assuming that they dont alter shots by having the reputation of a shot blocker. So its possible they affect a lot more than 4 points per game, by forcing odd shots.
 
OregonHuskerMan said:
Youre also assuming that they dont alter shots by having the reputation of a shot blocker. So its possible they affect a lot more than 4 points per game, by forcing odd shots.
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Although I agree with Blue9's overall point, I agree there are exceptions where teams just don't attack the basket as much when there is an elite shot blocker on the court. But those are rare. Mark Eaton comes to mind. Not a great defender by any any means but he effected one side of the court.

But overall I agree that blocked shots are overrated. We need the D to be extended way past the paint area. And a good team defender (Like Gasol) is probably more effective.
 
OregonHuskerMan said:
That would make Houston the next unstoppable team, IMO. Asik doesn't move the needle enough for us to compete with Harden/Howard
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Asik moves the needle more than most of the other retreads being listed here...and HOU has a decent stockpile of young talent that would not effect HOU "core" to send POR way as well....any combination of Terrence Jones, Thomas Robinson, Motiejunas, Royce White (risky)....which is the kicker IMO

Trading the #10 pick and giving up cap space to get a starting center Asik (on a reasonable deal) and a combination of 1 or 2 young players to stockpile talent is a better haul than getting over-priced\under-perfroming knuckleheads like Javale McGee or DeAndre Jordan or inferior 2nd tier players like Robin Lopez or Spencer Hawes

and HOU doesn't need POR to make a run at Howard, I am sure they can find other trade partners willing to take on some salary and a pretty decent post player (Asik, who is still young (26)) plus another young player or 2 to help them unload salary...of course this is only possible if HOU thinks they have a very good shot at getting Howard....if not then this is all a moot point.
 
Blaze01 said:
Asik moves the needle more than most of the other retreads being listed here...and HOU has a decent stockpile of young talent that would not effect HOU "core" to send POR way as well....any combination of Terrence Jones, Thomas Robinson, Motiejunas, Royce White (risky)....which is the kicker IMO

Trading the #10 pick and giving up cap space to get a starting center Asik (on a reasonable deal) and a combination of 1 or 2 young players to stockpile talent is a better haul than getting over-priced\under-perfroming knuckleheads like Javale McGee or DeAndre Jordan or inferior 2nd tier players like Robin Lopez or Spencer Hawes

and HOU doesn't need POR to make a run at Howard, I am sure they can find other trade partners willing to take on some salary and a pretty decent post player (Asik, who is still young (26)) plus another young player or 2 to help them unload salary...of course this is only possible if HOU thinks they have a very good shot at getting Howard....if not then this is all a moot point.
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I think Lakers would initiate a deal directly or indirectly with Houston to bring back talent to Lakers. They can easily just sign and trade and keep Asik and many other young talent on Houston, or they can use a third team to bring talent to Lakers like Love.

I just don't see the Asik possibility even being a possibility. If so, then Houston may hate Lakers just as badly as we do.
 
blue9 said:
Absolutely not. Blocked shots does not necessarily mean "good defense". I'll take a good defender who doesn't block many shots over a mediocre defender who blocks "tons" of shots. I think basing a defensive decision on BPG is silly - generally the league-leader averages about 3BPG. While that CAN be the difference in whether you win or lose a particular game, it shouldn't be the difference between being a good defensive team or a bad team. AT BEST, that's saving you 6ppg - and that's assuming that every shot that's blocked would have gone through the hoop. Given that good interior players shoot around 60%, the league-leader in blocks is actually only saving you roughly 3.6ppg. And again, that's assuming 60% of the shots would go in...which is a stretch when you factor in that guards don't shoot 60% in the paint.
I love blocked shots - but they are just a "defensive dunk".
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That's patently false. A good shotblocker does more than stop 6 points. As was said, he alters shots and discourages players from coming inside. Dikembe Mutombo controlled a whole playoff series (vs Seattle in 1994) with his shotblocking. What I don't like are people who swat the ball into the stands all the time. What you have to do is block the shot and secure possession. Akeem was great at this.

As for who we should go with, I think we should follow Mick's advice and draft Kelly Olynyk. We'll roll with Olynyk, Leonard, and O'Neal (who we can sign for cheap and wants to be here).
 
Oden is also a player who was very effective defensively as a shotblocker. Bill Russell too. Good shotblocking can anchor an entire defense.
 
Looking at the box scores of the first round series between Denver and Seattle, Mutombo had 4 and 5 blocked shots in the first two games (which Denver lost). Then, he took over. He had 6 blocked shots in Game 3, 8 blocked shots in Game 4, and 8 blocked shots again in Game 5. Seattle was completely flustered and became the first #1 seed to lose in the first round.
 
OregonHuskerMan said:
Youre also assuming that they dont alter shots by having the reputation of a shot blocker. So its possible they affect a lot more than 4 points per game, by forcing odd shots.
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Actually, no, I'm not. I'm not even addressing it - my only point is that BPG should not be a hugely important metric when choosing between defensive Cs. I was isolating BPG to illustrate that this single part of the game is not going to be a determining factor in whether you're a good or bad defensive team. If you want a real world example we can point to Javale McGee and Marc Gasol. One blocks shots, and one is a good defender...both alter shots.
 
blue9 said:
Actually, no, I'm not. I'm not even addressing it - my only point is that BPG should not be a hugely important metric when choosing between defensive Cs. I was isolating BPG to illustrate that this single part of the game is not going to be a determining factor in whether you're a good or bad defensive team. If you want a real world example we can point to Javale McGee and Marc Gasol. One blocks shots, and one is a good defender...both alter shots.
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Gasol doesn't dominate defensively like Akeem and Dikembe did though.
 
Well, the #3 pick would have much more value than #10... :dunno:

Gotta think we're keeping it, if not moving up.
 
BrianFromWA said:
Well, the #3 pick would have much more value than #10... :dunno:

Gotta think we're keeping it, if not moving up.
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Otto Porter would be a nice chip to trade.

Or he'd make it easier to deal Batum.
 
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If we landed a top 3 pick, I'd be immediately calling up the Kings making a deal for DMC. Detroit for Drummond. Milwaukie for Larry Sanders.

OR Toronto for DeMar or Terrence Ross.
 
OregonHuskerMan said:
If we landed a top 3 pick, I'd be immediately calling up the Kings making a deal for DMC. Detroit for Drummond. Milwaukie for Larry Sanders.

OR Toronto for DeMar or Terrence Ross.
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Plan A: DMC
Plan B: Monroe
Plan C: Keep it

I don't see Detroit entertaining offers for Drummond.
 
blue9 said:
Actually, no, I'm not. I'm not even addressing it - my only point is that BPG should not be a hugely important metric when choosing between defensive Cs. I was isolating BPG to illustrate that this single part of the game is not going to be a determining factor in whether you're a good or bad defensive team. If you want a real world example we can point to Javale McGee and Marc Gasol. One blocks shots, and one is a good defender...both alter shots.
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Honestly, I have no clue how Marc Gasol won defensive player of the year. He isn't even the most critical defender on his own team, I'm guessing rebounding played a pretty large role in it since thats part of "defense". He also does block almost as many shots as Javale.

Tyson Chandler blocks shots and is a good defender. I'd even say the top 10 in BPG are some of the better defenders in basketball, which makes BPG a relevant stat.

Ibaka - Don't see anyone arguing this
Sanders - Or this
Hibbert - Or this
Duncan - Or this
Howard - Or this
Brook Lopez - Nets are better with him on the court (3 points)
Javale - Nuggets better with him off the court (2 points) Also, the Nuggets aren't known for their defense, nor are the Nets.
Josh Smith - Not really arguable.
Bismack Biyombo - Don't watch the Bobcats. Pretty sure everyone outside of Kemba sucks.
Anthony Davis - Obvious.
Marc Gasol - So it appears he does block shots, hm.

That stats seem to suggest that BPG does equate to good defense. (After all, most blocks come from help side D and rotations.) I wouldn't say its the most important but I'd say it has more relevance than you state.
 
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