Noel

[PtldPlatypus]

Last year, at the age of 21 in his second NBA season, Nerlens Noel has an AST% of 10.5. That's not elite, but it's still pretty good for a 21-year old big man. I've been so focused on his defensive game, I really hadn't paid any attention to his passing until watching that highlight video.

We've all gotten used to Mason Plumlee's passing, which is truly elite for a big man. Here's a list of all players 6'6" and taller with at least 100 assist and a AST% of at least 23.0. Ad you can see, that puts Plumlee in some pretty exclusive company.

But, as a second year player, Plumlee's AST% was only 7.0. As a 4-year player at Duke, he was also three full years older than Nerlens Noel was during his second season. I'm not saying Nerlens Noel will take the same jump to elite passing big man that Plumlee did, but the foundation to be an excellent passing big man is definitely there.

I've been pushing hard for the Blazers getting Noel for over 4 months, because his elite defense combined with his age make him the perfect fit to address our biggest weaknesses.

Throw in his passing skills and ability to finish at the rim and he'd be the perfect starting center for this team.

BNM

All true.

And it's never going to happen.

 

[Minstrel]

Let's hope this raises Meyers' value too:

His value won't go up until he shows he can do good things while being defended (Boston was mostly leaving him uncovered) and/or he greatly improves his defense.

One night of scoring 17 points on (mostly) wide open shots (even his thunder dunks came after he rolled down a completely open lane, because he drew no defensive attention until he was at the rim) isn't going to change his value.

 

[illmatic99]

His value won't go up until he shows he can do good things while being defended (Boston was mostly leaving him uncovered) and/or he greatly improves his defense.

One night of scoring 17 points on (mostly) wide open shots (even his thunder dunks came after he rolled down a completely open lane, because he drew no defensive attention until he was at the rim) isn't going to change his value.

Man I was being facetious. Same thing as getting too high on Noel after one good game where he finally played more than spot minutes.

 

[Boob-No-More]

It's his P&R defense that most impresses me. He shows hard, and has the mobility to stay in front of fast guards. He makes himself tall.

He makes maximum usage of his length both vertically and horizontally. With all this talk about needing a rim protector, people seem to think that's all Noel is. That could not be further from the truth. He is not a shot blocking one trick pony. He uses he lateral quickness, long arms and active hands to clamp down on the ball handler in the pick and roll and also get a lot of steals and deflections.

He is also a quick leaper, which is why he is also an effective shot blocker.

I only hope he is still available and we are hot on his pursuit. Embiid is the better all around player, but I actually think Noel is a little better defensively (all things considered). But, his skill set is rendered somewhat redundant by Embiid.

If PHI was smart, they would move Noel right now, now that his stock is higher than it was a month ago, for some shooting and ball handling. They can pair Noel with a stretch 4 and bring Okafor off the bench for instant offense backing up both the 4 and 5 spots. Okafor sucks on defense, but of the three, he is definitely the best, most versatile low post scorer.

BNM

 

[Minstrel]

Man I was being facetious. Same thing as getting too high on Noel after one good game where he finally played more than spot minutes.

It's actually really hard to tell when people are being facetious/sarcastic about players on this team and when they really mean it, especially regarding their trade value.

To be fair, though, a lot of us have been high on Noel prior to this game--his defensive credentials aren't in doubt, he's been doing great things on the defensive end his whole career to date. His passing could be a fluke, sure, but it looked pretty natural. It's exciting because his upside seemed to be prime Tyson Chandler (which is already a great upside). If he can add good passing, that's tasty gravy.

 

[BBert]

The problem is I don't think Olshey is even after Noel (hope I am wrong on this but he seems more a Okafor person which makes me puke) but if I was GM I would do everything in my power to bring him here outside of trading Dame or CJ. So our 1st round pick plus salary? Sure (they would want it over CLE's). A 1st and 2nd and contracts? Yep. Crabbe and 1st? Done. Two firsts plus filler? Ouch... that would be my only no.

I would absolutely do "two firsts plus filler". He's a proven player. We need him. Get it done.

 

[Cippy91]

I wish he was but I don't think Olshey is after Nerlens. Pretty sure Olshey sits this one out till the offseason

 

[Boob-No-More]

Man I was being facetious. Same thing as getting too high on Noel after one good game where he finally played more than spot minutes.

The difference is Noel has two solid years, out of two years played, of elite level NBA defense at a very young age. This isn't just people getting too high on Noel after one good game. I've been high on him for over four months, as soon as I heard he might be available. That one game highlight reel is just an illustration of why I've been so high in him all along.

BNM

 

[Cippy91]

I would absolutely do "two firsts plus filler". He's a proven player. We need him. Get it done.

I am right with you on this one

 

[Boob-No-More]

I wish he was but I don't think Olshey is after Nerlens. Pretty sure Olshey sits this one out till the offseason

Best to get him now. If we don't, we won't have his Bird Rights, and given our cap situation, we would have zero chance to sign him outright as a free agent. Maybe PHI would do a sign and trade with us, but they can absorb any salary we want to send them now.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

I would absolutely do "two firsts plus filler". He's a proven player. We need him. Get it done.

Well, back when I first heard he was available, I was thinking of a straight up Crabbe for Noel swap. Noel had just had his minor surgery, at the team's urging and Crabbe was fresh off his break out season.

But then Crabbe kind of shit the bed and regressed and Noel started playing and PHI started winning. So, I was thinking Crabbe plus one 1st round pick.

Now, with the way he's coming one, it may very well take Crabbe plus two 1st round picks.

I'd still do it. Noel addresses so many of our weaknesses, and at only 22 he's not much older than anyone we'd take in the draft, and he comes with two+ years of proven elite level NBA defensive experience.

This is supposedly a deep draft, but it's deep in PGs and SFs. There isn't a big man in this draft that is anywhere close to the player Nerlens Noel is. There isn't a single big man projected to go in the lottery, and those that are projected to go in the second half of the first round are pretty meh.

BNM

 

[BBert]

I just think Noel is the best big man we have any hope of getting, and the best fit for our team. And he's young. I'll take him over a much riskier draft pick or two and a couple of complimentary players. Unfortunately, his price is definitely going up.

 

[Blazinaway]

Well, back when I first heard he was available, I was thinking of a straight up Crabbe for Noel swap. Noel had just had his minor surgery, at the team's urging and Crabbe was fresh off his break out season.

But then Crabbe kind of shit the bed and regressed and Noel started playing and PHI started winning. So, I was thinking Crabbe plus one 1st round pick.

Now, with the way he's coming one, it may very well take Crabbe plus two 1st round picks.

I'd still do it. Noel addresses so many of our weaknesses, and at only 22 he's not much older than anyone we'd take in the draft, and he comes with two+ years of proven elite level NBA defensive experience.

This is supposedly a deep draft, but it's deep in PGs and SFs. There isn't a big man in this draft that is anywhere close to the player Nerlens Noel is. There isn't a single big man projected to go in the lottery, and those that are projected to go in the second half of the first round are pretty meh.

BNM

IMO Noel for Crabbe is a pipe dream

 

[Boob-No-More]

His value won't go up until he shows he can do good things while being defended (Boston was mostly leaving him uncovered) and/or he greatly improves his defense.

One night of scoring 17 points on (mostly) wide open shots (even his thunder dunks came after he rolled down a completely open lane, because he drew no defensive attention until he was at the rim) isn't going to change his value.

Joke about Meyers all you want, but PHI might actually be interested. They went and got Ilyasova because they wanted a stretch 4 to create some space down low for Embiid and Okafor to operate. But, Ilyasova is pushing 30 and way too old to be around when their core reaches their prime. At 24, Meyers is a much better fit, age wise, with their roster.

Of course, Meyers would only be part of a package. How about something like this:

POR sends Meyers Leonard, Allen Crabbe and two lottery protected 1st round picks.

POR receives Nerlens Noel and Gerald Henderson

PHI gets the outside shooting they desperately need, as well as two 1st round picks to continue "the process". Crabbe would be their staring SG and Meyers would give them an age appropriate floor spacing big.

We get the young defensive center we desperately need and we get Henderson's veteran leadership. Our core is older than PHIs, so Henderson makes more sense here than there. Henderson is a completely different player than Crabbe, but I thought he fit in well here last year, once he got healthy. We would also clear a metric shit ton of cap space by getting rid of Crabbe and Leonard's contracts, plus only $1 million of Henderson's 2017-18 salary is guaranteed. This would allow us to easily resign Noel while staying under the luxury tax threshold.

BNM

 

[BBert]

Joke about Meyers all you want, but PHI might actually be interested. They went and got Ilyasova because they wanted a stretch 4 to create some space down low for Embiid and Okafor to operate. But, Ilyasova is pushing 30 and way too old to be around when their core reaches their prime. At 24, Meyers is a much better fit, age wise, with their roster.

Of course, Meyers would only be part of a package. How about something like this:

POR sends Meyers Leonard, Allen Crabbe and two lottery protected 1st round picks.

POR receives Nerlens Noel and Gerald Henderson

PHI gets the outside shooting they desperately need, as well as two 1st round picks to continue "the process". Crabbe would be their staring SG and Meyers would give them an age appropriate floor spacing big.

We get the young defensive center we desperately need and we get Henderson's veteran leadership. Our core is older than PHIs, so Henderson makes more sense here than there. Henderson is a completely different player than Crabbe, but I thought he fit in well here last year, once he got healthy. We would also clear a metric shit ton of cap space by getting rid of Crabbe and Leonard's contracts, plus only $1 million of Henderson's 2017-18 salary is guaranteed. This would allow us to easily resign Noel while staying under the luxury tax threshold.

BNM

Too good to be true

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Joke about Meyers all you want, but PHI might actually be interested. They went and got Ilyasova because they wanted a stretch 4 to create some space down low for Embiid and Okafor to operate. But, Ilyasova is pushing 30 and way too old to be around when their core reaches their prime. At 24, Meyers is a much better fit, age wise, with their roster.

Of course, Meyers would only be part of a package. How about something like this:

POR sends Meyers Leonard, Allen Crabbe and two lottery protected 1st round picks.

POR receives Nerlens Noel and Gerald Henderson

PHI gets the outside shooting they desperately need, as well as two 1st round picks to continue "the process". Crabbe would be their staring SG and Meyers would give them an age appropriate floor spacing big.

We get the young defensive center we desperately need and we get Henderson's veteran leadership. Our core is older than PHIs, so Henderson makes more sense here than there. Henderson is a completely different player than Crabbe, but I thought he fit in well here last year, once he got healthy. We would also clear a metric shit ton of cap space by getting rid of Crabbe and Leonard's contracts, plus only $1 million of Henderson's 2017-18 salary is guaranteed. This would allow us to easily resign Noel while staying under the luxury tax threshold.

BNM

Dare to dream.

 

[Boob-No-More]

IMO Noel for Crabbe is a pipe dream

Did you not read the part where I included TWO 1st round picks?

PHI desperately needs outside shooting. It's the one thing they have not drafted or been able to obtain through other trades and free agent signings - and it's only going to get worse when Ben Simmons gets healthy. He is a very unique player and will be starting for them and running as a point forward, but he does not have an outside shot. They need SOMEONE who can shoot to spread the floor for the rest of their players, and that's the ONE thing Allen Crabbe can do.

And he's young enough to fit well with their core.

And, they also get those two first round draft picks.

BNM

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Showcase for us?

Sign that they won't trade him. Why should they? He allows them to rest Embiid and they work well together. A Duncan/Robinson style pairing. Why break that up? The one they want to trade is Okafor, because he's a sieve.

I'd still offer them Lillard for Simmons. Won't happen, I know, but I can dream.

 

[BBert]

Crabbe is perfect for the Sixers.

Noel is perfect for the Blazers.

Throw in some draft picks and anyone not named Dame or CJ, and and just do it.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Joke about Meyers all you want, but PHI might actually be interested.

Now YOU'RE joking about Meyers.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Crabbe is perfect for the Sixers.

Noel is perfect for the Blazers.

Throw in some draft picks and anyone not named Dame or CJ, and and just do it.

Prove to me that Crabbe is a significant improvement over Stauskas. It would have to be MASSIVE, given the gulf in salary.

Okay, an improvement over Stauskas and Gerald Henderson (who is shooting 40% from 3 this season).

 

[BBert]

Prove to me that Crabbe is a significant improvement over Stauskas. It would have to be MASSIVE, given the gulf in salary.

Bob Whitsitt wasn't a chemistry major. And I'm not an accountant.

(or a GM )

 

[BBert]

I think Crabbe is grossly overpaid this season. I also think he would blossom into a much better player as a starter on the Sixers. Just my opinion of course, based solely on my sore eyes test.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Dare to dream.

This is where those two picks come in handy. Sam Hinkie LOVED amassing picks and did not hesitate to move serviceable players for future picks.

Bryan Colangelo doesn't seem to be as infatuated with accumulating picks as Sam Hinkie, but this is where we want all of PHI, SAC and LAL (I feel dirty typing that) to keep winning. The two things PHI needs are a PG and outside shooting, those are also the two things most available in this draft.

They have their own pick (or the right to swap with SAC) and the Lakers pick, as long as it's not top 3. They will likely have a couple players targeted in the top 10 that address their weaknesses, but if their picks slip lower and the players they want look like they might be gone, having a couple extra non-lottery 1st round picks may let the do a two picks for one swap and move up a couple spots to grab the player (or players) they REALLY want.

Given how many young players they already have, I really wouldn't expect them to draft four players for themselves, but those extra two 1st round picks in this deep draft would be valuable trading chips.

BNM

 

[Harry's Raincoat]

I am also a fan of Noel in Blazers scarlet & black colors! Vonleh is becoming a beast at PF and gaining confidence every month. Noel likewise, is a near-perfect compliment to Vonleh in the frontcourt. Both are young and getting better.

76ers need shooting! Crabbe delivers. Crabbe and CLE pick and POR pick.

Lillard - McCollum - Harkless - Vonleh - Noel
Turner - Aminu - Plumlee as main reserves

Leonard, Davis, Layman, Napier, Connaughton, Quartermann and Ezeli as trade bait.

 

[Trackjack]

Right now I don't think there going none of them due none of them can stay healthy right now. I don't see Neil given up two players and two firsts for Noel. Maybe 1 protected 1st but not 2. They woul want one of our bigs with Crabbe. More likely they would want Plum instead of ML just because of his passing ability and he also RFA.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I think Crabbe is grossly overpaid this season. I also think he would blossom into a much better player as a starter on the Sixers. Just my opinion of course, based solely on my sore eyes test.

I've been on record defending Crabbe, and I agree that he can't be judged until he has a larger role, but I think the Sixers can probably do better if they want to trade Noel. But why should they? They didn't when he was apparently unhappy, and now he's happy and the Sixers are on a tear, and about to get Simmons back.

Yes, they need shooting, but they already sort of have it at the SG spot. The player they NEED is Lillard!

 

[Boob-No-More]

Prove to me that Crabbe is a significant improvement over Stauskas. It would have to be MASSIVE, given the gulf in salary.

Okay, an improvement over Stauskas and Gerald Henderson (who is shooting 40% from 3 this season).

PHI's biggest need it outside shooting. That need will get even bigger when Ben Simmons get's healthy.

Nik Stauskas:

Career 3FG% = .336
2016-17 3FG% = .368

Allen Crabbe:
Career 3FG% = .398
2016-17 3FG% - .427

Crabbe is better and it's not even close.

Gerald Henderson is irrelevant. PHI is not in win now mode. Henderson is 29 and won't be around when PHI's core are in their primes. Sure, he's having a career year in terms of 3FG% (.398 compared to his career average of .329). but he's only made 35 3-pointers and has never made more than 48 in a season in his NBA career.

By comparison, Crabbe made 112 3-pointers last season and has already made 70 this season, He makes twice as many 3-pointers as Henderson and he makes them at a much higher percentage.

As I said, Henderson does not fit in with their long term plans. Crabbe is a MUCH better shooter than Stauskas and you can't play Stauskas and Henderson at the same time. Crabbe would be a huge upgrade in their outside shooting, which is one of their biggest weaknesses.

BNM

 

[TBpup]

Crabbe's value may not be extremely high but I think he is a PERFECT fit fit for the 76'ers especially when Simmons gets back in a couple of weeks.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Gerald Henderson is irrelevant. PHI is not in win now mode. Henderson is 29

Jesus, so you're on the scrap heap before 30 now?

He's fine as a stopgap. The Cavs won with JR Smith. Henderson is probably more valuable as a veteran voice on a young team than Crabbe would be with his improved shooting. As I said, what the Sixers need more than anything is a shooter at PG who can take the pressure off Simmons when needed but spot up when Simmons is creating. That's CJ or Lillard (or any number of guards around the league - sadly sharp-shooting tweener is not a rarity). If we offered CJ for Noel then I'm sure Philly would be interested. Crabbe? Not so much.