Non-gender entity sues it's employer $500k b/c they referred to it as a woman.

[EL PRESIDENTE]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2014/02/gender-neutral_employee_sues_f.html

:MARIS61:

A former catering worker who identifies as neither female or male is suing Bon Appetit Management Co. for $518,000, claiming co-workers referred to the employee as a female though repeatedly being asked to stop.

Valeria Jones alleges in a lawsuit that co-workers repeatedly called Jones “miss,” “lady” and “little lady” despite explanations that Jones “was not a female or a male and that the term was unwelcome.”

Workers also directly said Jones looked like a woman and made female celebrity comparisons, the suit states.

The lawsuit, filed this week in Multnomah County Circuit Court, says Jones preferred to be addressed by a general neutral pronoun. The suit doesn’t identify the term.

The term “they” -- rather than “he” or “she” -- is sometimes used to refer to a gender-neutral individual in the LGBTQ communities.

The suit was filed by Portland attorney Donel Courtney, who declined Friday to share more details about the case.

Bon Appetit declined to comment on specifics of the case because of the pending litigation and because it involves a personnel matter, but vice president Maisie Ganzler said, “I can say we are an equal opportunity employer that embraces diversity of all kinds.”

The company lists its mission as providing "café and catering services to corporations, colleges and universities, and specialty venues" through more than 500 locations in 32 states.

According to the suit:

Jones began working in March 2013. When Jones filled out an application, Jones left blank a question asking about male or female identification. Management didn’t question the omission.

During the next few months, Jones spoke with managers about the problem -- asking them to address employees as a group and present to employees information about gender identity. The managers didn’t follow through.

“Plaintiff cried regularly at work and at home during this time,” the suit states.

Jones resigned.

The suit alleges Jones made a complaint to human resources, but the department never contacted Jones.

The suit seeks $18,682 in lost wages and benefits, and $500,000 for humiliation and suffering.

 

[MARIS61]

Leeches like this certainly don't help the cause of equality.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

500k for humiliation... wow.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Also not to be the offensiveness police (but who am I kidding?)... but calling someone "it" is pretty offensive. The general term is accepted as "they" at this point unless the person has another pronoun they wish to be referred to as. In case you care (I know you don't.)

 

[speeds]

Also not to be the offensiveness police (but who am I kidding?)... but calling someone "it" is pretty offensive. The general term is accepted as "they" at this point unless the person has another pronoun they wish to be referred to as. In case you care (I know you don't.)

In these circumstances I think the person's name works well, too.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

In these circumstances I think the person's name works well, too.

That would be far too humanizing.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

This explains why he asked Denny to change his moniker to It Presidente.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

This explains why he asked Denny to change his moniker to It Presidente.

bigot.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

What a cvnt.

Not offensive cause it is not a woman, right?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

What a cvnt.

Not offensive cause it is not a woman, right?

Don't you mean "Not offensive cause they is not a woman, right?"

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Don't you mean "Not offensive cause they is not a woman, right?"

they aren't

 

[MARIS61]

Also not to be the offensiveness police (but who am I kidding?)... but calling someone "it" is pretty offensive. The general term is accepted as "they" at this point unless the person has another pronoun they wish to be referred to as. In case you care (I know you don't.)

That's not only grammatically incorrect when speaking of one person, unless "they" are conjoined twins, but it's ridiculously self-serving and less accurate than the alternatives that were objected to.

He, she, that person. Those are the options. Anything else screams drama queen/king.

BTW, I self-identify as a different animal each day. If you don't guess correctly and address me accordingly I'll sue!

That person should be grateful that person was hired even though that person refused to fill out that person's application completely, and grateful that person was not fired for crying regularly at work. That person clearly has severe mental/depression issues and should have sought out a doctor rather than an ambulance chaser.

 

[MARIS61]

In these circumstances I think the person's name works well, too.

That person has a clearly female name, so use it at the risk of a $500,000 lawsuit.

 

[MARIS61]

"Self-identify" should top next year's list of words to banish.

Here's this year's list:

http://www.lssu.edu/banished/current.php

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

That person has a clearly female name, so use it at the risk of a $500,000 lawsuit.

Hi.....YOU!

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

That's not only grammatically incorrect when speaking of one person, unless "they" are conjoined twins, but it's ridiculously self-serving and less accurate than the alternatives that were objected to.

I'm just telling you what the accepted pronoun is. Grammar, and accuracy, are in the eye of the beholder.

He, she, that person. Those are the options. Anything else screams drama queen/king.

I'll make sure to tell the LGBTQ community that some old crank living in eastern Oregon has it all figured out for them.

BTW, I self-identify as a different animal each day. If you don't guess correctly and address me accordingly I'll sue!

Lame.

That person should be grateful that person was hired even though that person refused to fill out that person's application completely, and grateful that person was not fired for crying regularly at work. That person clearly has severe mental/depression issues and should have sought out a doctor rather than an ambulance chaser.

I don't think the person should have sued. But to chalk up someone's emotions for being mistreated at work to mental illness is you just being a dick. And yes, asking people repeatedly to not refer to you as X but they keep referring to you as X is mistreatment.

 

[MARIS61]

I'm just telling you what the accepted pronoun is. Grammar, and accuracy, are in the eye of the beholder.

That's a load of crap. "She" is the accepted pronoun. Accepted suggests that most people accept it, which is clearly not the case. Most people have never even heard of such a silly idea, definitely way less than 1% of the world's population, and even the LGBTQ community is about evenly split on it.

I'll make sure to tell the LGBTQ community that some old crank living in eastern Oregon has it all figured out for them.

Don't blame me for 100+ centuries of language development.

I don't think the person should have sued. But to chalk up someone's emotions for being mistreated at work to mental illness is you just being a dick. And yes, asking people repeatedly to not refer to you as X but they keep referring to you as X is mistreatment.

There was no mistreatment, just typical workplace where people speak English to each other. Referring to a woman as "she" is not mistreatment. It is proper English. It is accurate. In most common uses it has no applicable substitute.

It appears she was liked by her coworkers and there is no sign that anybody meant to insult her. They (proper use of the word "they") have no duty to speak gibberish just because somebody else demands it.

She is either a woman or intentionally goes to great lengths to appear that she is a woman, and repeatedly compared herself to female celebrities establishing that she truthfully identifies as a woman.

She either has serious mental issues which is common when people can't determine what gender they are, or she's a conniving, money-grubbing waste of space. Evidence points toward the latter.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

That's a load of crap. "She" is the accepted pronoun. Accepted suggests that most people accept it, which is clearly not the case. Most people have never even heard of such a silly idea, definitely way less than 1% of the world's population, and even the LGBTQ community is about evenly split on it.

Within the community that this actually affects, it is accepted to use "they" if you don't know the preferred pronoun. Many people also use "they" when you don't know the gender of someone you are talking about. "The bus driver was rude to me." "Really? What did they say?"

Don't blame me for 100+ centuries of language development.

lol, don't bring up language development if you aren't willing to accept new things

There was no mistreatment, just typical workplace where people speak English to each other. Referring to a woman as "she" is not mistreatment. It is proper English. It is accurate. In most common uses it has no applicable substitute.

It appears she was liked by her coworkers and there is no sign that anybody meant to insult her. They (proper use of the word "they") have no duty to speak gibberish just because somebody else demands it.

I guess you think that kind of behavior is normal:

"Valeria Jones alleges in a lawsuit that co-workers repeatedly called Jones “miss,” “lady” and “little lady” despite explanations that Jones “was not a female or a male and that the term was unwelcome.”"

She is either a woman or intentionally goes to great lengths to appear that she is a woman, and repeatedly compared herself to female celebrities establishing that she truthfully identifies as a woman.

You've figured out her dastardly secret using logic! No wait, you fail at reading comprehension:

"Workers also directly said Jones looked like a woman and made female celebrity comparisons, the suit states."

She either has serious mental issues which is common when people can't determine what gender they are, or she's a conniving, money-grubbing waste of space. Evidence points toward the latter.

I can't wait for your generation to die off. No offense.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I'm just telling you what the accepted pronoun is. Grammar, and accuracy, are in the eye of the beholder.

I've already given this advice to my daughter, after reading this post. I'd love to know her teacher's reaction to this.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

I've already given this advice to my daughter, after reading this post. I'd love to know her teacher's reaction to this.

Right, because the adult world should be run at a grade school level. Shit is a little more nuanced than the fourth grade.

 

[BlazerWookee]

Dumb broad...

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Right, because the adult world should be run at a grade school level. Shit is a little more nuanced than the fourth grade.

Everyone is a special flower!

How can anyone in a large company even keep track of something like this? Should we ban all use of "he" and "she" just to be safe? Company wide memo that "Employee X" has no gender and should be referred to as "they" (and not "it")?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Her attorney is fresh out of law school and can't find a job with a firm. That tells me she shopped around but had to scrape the bottom ob the barrell.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

Oh fucking brother........or sister.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Right, because the adult world should be run at a grade school level. Shit is a little more nuanced than the fourth grade.

You think so? You've spent plenty of time on this board. Really, who's more sophisticated?

But really.... I know for myself, after years of education, it's hard for me to refer to someone in grammatical context that goes against everything I've ever been taught. My grammar now is far from perfect, but generally, it reflects the education I received (or that which I still remember). Changing a simply "her" or "him" to "they" is just grammatically wrong. It sounds simple enough to make the change, but even as I've tried examples out loud, it simply feels like putting my left shoe on my right foot. Does that make me a bigot? I'm not saying I wouldn't tolerate the person. I'm not saying I wouldn't accept the person. I'm not saying I wouldn't consider changing my reference if that person had the gall to talk to me directly and explain their issue directly with me. But short of that, I wouldn't change years of education.

But yeah.... this whole thing is bullshit. I'm not saying this person wasn't mistreated. But petty, bullshit lawsuits like this are completely ridiculous. This could have been handled so differently by everyone involved, including the plaintiff. The problem is most people lack the ability to take the effort to make change, and continue status quo until they explode, blame everyone else, and file suit.

EDIT: BTW, at 31, I'm flattered you'd think I'd have a 4th grader. That'd make her 9/10 and me 21 or so when she was born. Fuck that shit! I barely knew how to make it home at 21 (given the amount of partying my friends and I did at that time of my life).

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Everyone is a special flower!

How can anyone in a large company even keep track of something like this? Should we ban all use of "he" and "she" just to be safe? Company wide memo that "Employee X" has no gender and should be referred to as "they" (and not "it")?

According to them, their co-workers continued to call them "miss", "lady", and "little lady" after being asked not to. So, not being a dick could be one tactic.

Honestly, I don't know what the solution is beyond that. They asked the managers to make everyone go to sensitivity training, which I think is way overeaching (but certainly not unheard of).

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

You think so? You've spent plenty of time on this board. Really, who's more sophisticated?

Good point.

But really.... I know for myself, after years of education, it's hard for me to refer to someone in grammatical context that goes against everything I've ever been taught. My grammar now is far from perfect, but generally, it reflects the education I received (or that which I still remember). Changing a simply "her" or "him" to "they" is just grammatically wrong. It sounds simple enough to make the change, but even as I've tried examples out loud, it simply feels like putting my left shoe on my right foot. Does that make me a bigot? I'm not saying I wouldn't tolerate the person. I'm not saying I wouldn't accept the person. I'm not saying I wouldn't consider changing my reference if that person had the gall to talk to me directly and explain their issue directly with me. But short of that, I wouldn't change years of education.

I agree with "they" sounding weird. It took me a while to write the response to El Prez up there because I kept typing "she" and then correcting myself. We are of a generation where using "they" as a singular gender neutral pronoun is weird, but not impossible. The next generation will have less of a problem with it, and so on and so forth until it becomes accepted. Linguistics has been talking about "they" morphing into a gender neutral singular pronoun for years, long before this kind of thing made national news. It's just the course of natural language evolution.

All I'm trying to get at is that people should call people what they want to be called instead of writing them off as being dramatic or childish. People don't go and self-identify as something difficult to understand or abstract on a whim. Why would you when there is such a negative reaction to it?

But yeah.... this whole thing is bullshit. I'm not saying this person wasn't mistreated. But petty, bullshit lawsuits like this are completely ridiculous. This could have been handled so differently by everyone involved, including the plaintiff. The problem is most people lack the ability to take the effort to make change, and continue status quo until they explode, blame everyone else, and file suit.

Agree 100%. The lawsuit is ridiculous.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I can't wait for your generation to die off. No offense.

I'm younger than you and I definitely feel the same way as Maris, as do most people my age, so you better get used to it. I honestly think your view on this is childish and stupid. And it's not because so few people believe what you do, it's because it's just pointless and ridiculous. Creating drama for no reason other than to make money and feel "different".

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

From now on, call me "Koko The Monkey"

hoop fam

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

From now on, call me "Koko The Monkey"

hoop fam

Isn't that disrespectful to monkies?