Now I'm pissed at Oden

[Minstrel]

Exactly.

There is a huge middle ground between "flop" and the outlandish expectations some folks have for Oden.

It's fair to note that what you call "outlandish expectations" (assuming you're connecting that with Shooter's pondering that maybe Oden "never deserved those accolades in the first place") are essentially the opinions of the entire scouting community that has opined on the matter. Oden has been called one of the best center prospects ever, and the best center prospect since Shaq, continuously since his sophomore year in high school.

Not that you or others can't choose to disagree, but it isn't like these are a product of some homerish wish-casting by a fanbase. His hype and expectations have been building constantly, fueled entirely by his performance and scouts' assessment of that performance.

The scouting community could all be wrong on this one, but at least it's coming from an experienced and credible source.

 

[PapaG]

I'll just throw in this.

Effort can be brought on every occasion. That is my main worry with Oden at this point. I understand he is coming off of major surgery, but some nights it seems he isn't even trying.

I'd start Joel again at this point.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

I'll just throw in this.

Effort can be brought on every occasion. That is my main worry with Oden at this point. I understand he is coming off of major surgery, but some nights it seems he isn't even trying.

I'd start Joel again at this point.

It hit me while watching the Utah game. I now know why Greg Oden is playing so poorly.
It's not any of the microfracture surgery baloney. It's not that "out of shape" stuff either,
he should be in shape by now. You know what it is?

He NEVER gets mad.
Shaq dunks all over him, makes him look bad. He doesn't get mad, he gets depressed.
Howard takes it to him. He doesn't get mad, he gets depressed.
Garnett trash talks the whole team. He doesn't get mad, he gets depressed.
The refs at Utah screw over the whole team, him included. He doesn't get mad, he gets depressed.

Jesus H. Christ man, get MAD, get EVEN.

 

[oldmangrouch]

It's fair to note that what you call "outlandish expectations" (assuming you're connecting that with Shooter's pondering that maybe Oden "never deserved those accolades in the first place") are essentially the opinions of the entire scouting community that has opined on the matter. Oden has been called one of the best center prospects ever, and the best center prospect since Shaq, continuously since his sophomore year in high school.

Not that you or others can't choose to disagree, but it isn't like these are a product of some homerish wish-casting by a fanbase. His hype and expectations have been building constantly, fueled entirely by his performance and scouts' assessment of that performance.

The scouting community could all be wrong on this one, but at least it's coming from an experienced and credible source.

Your second paragraph is where we part company. During their "one-and-done" season in college, several observers raised the same issue: Oden made unbelievable plays, while Durant had unbelievable games. Durant played with more emotion and consistent effort. Oden's rep *wasn't* fueled by his actual performance...it was fueled by excuses. "If he is this good with a bum wrist, just you wait!" Wait till he is healthy, wait till he gets his timing back, wait till he gets his confidence back, etc.

Sorry if I sound frustrated...but at this point, I'm not even sure how much the kid cares!

 

[ehizzy3]

Give the kid time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mgb]

If he was playing like this last year I might be a little concern, maybe, but no way would I be hitting the panic button, but considering he has had surgery and been off over a year I'm not to concern.

As to the effort I think it's there. I remember when he just threw some players off him, what happen? He got a foul. He goes for a dunk with a lot of emotion and a lot of times misses the dunk or gets called for hanging on the basket. He needs to stay in control or he's going to be on the bench with fouls. He knows that and is trying to find his rhythm.

 

[Minstrel]

Your second paragraph is where we part company. During their "one-and-done" season in college, several observers raised the same issue: Oden made unbelievable plays, while Durant had unbelievable games. Durant played with more emotion and consistent effort. Oden's rep *wasn't* fueled by his actual performance...it was fueled by excuses. "If he is this good with a bum wrist, just you wait!" Wait till he is healthy, wait till he gets his timing back, wait till he gets his confidence back, etc.

You're talking about fans. Scouts continued to rave about him, based on his college performance. Oden's freshman season wasn't any different from those of Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan, Patrick Ewing, etc. Very few big men come in and dominate college from their freshman seasons. He was still showing all the same things in college that caused scouts to call him such an amazing prospect: incredible athleticism combined with great size, skills developing extremely well for his age, elite defensive instincts, intelligence.

Honestly, only people who weren't aware of how big men perform as freshmen, historically, thought Oden's freshman season was a warning sign. His performance was very much in line with what elite big men do in their first year in college.

Leading up to the draft, the scouting consensus still was that Oden was a special prospect.

I realize you're frustrated. I'm not. I had hoped he'd be closer to his peak shape earlier, but these things lead me to believe that this is just an inconsistent rookie campaign from a player recovering from a year away from basketball:

-His rebounding has been exceptional (best in the league in Rebound Rate)
-His defense has been exceptional (the team's scoring defense zoomed up in rank when he returned)
-Opposing teams double-team him in the post constantly (so opposing coaches can't believe he's an offensive duffer)

These points don't point to bust, or even disappointment, to me. They are entirely consistent with what Oden is supposed to be: a top center prospect who's early in his rookie season, not in basketball shape and still regaining explosiveness.

I understand that people are going to look at his bottom-line raw stats and at the plays on court where he looks clueless or unenergetic and react mostly to those. That's fine...I'm not excoriating anyone for that perspective, even though I think it's lacking in perspective, personally. My response to you was motivated by the proposition you and Shooter seemed to be putting forth that Oden was really never considered anything special except by delusional fans and we should all bring "our" expectations back to Oden being a largely proven mediocre prospect. I don't think that reflects the reality of what scouts with no vested interest believe.

 

[garden of oden]

spud, thank you for the best rationale on the situation.

 

[Cake]

I'll just throw in this.

Effort can be brought on every occasion. That is my main worry with Oden at this point. I understand he is coming off of major surgery, but some nights it seems he isn't even trying.

I'd start Joel again at this point.

Effort can be brought on every occasion...if you're in shape. Clearly he's not in shape yet.

Watching the game last night, it was obvious. He was running hard, working at getting position early in both halves. About 5 minutes into each half, he starts to slow down. He's just really, really tired and it looks like he's being lazy...which I guess may be technically true. He'll work himself into shape.

 

[PapaG]

Effort can be brought on every occasion...if you're in shape. Clearly he's not in shape yet.

Watching the game last night, it was obvious. He was running hard, working at getting position early in both halves. About 5 minutes into each half, he starts to slow down. He's just really, really tired and it looks like he's being lazy...which I guess may be technically true. He'll work himself into shape.

After a good night's rest, I agree with your post. I too think that Oden isn't conditioned enough at this point. I suppose the lack of effort that I perhaps see is more noticeable to me because of the outgoing young man that we were all introduced to last year.

 

[maxiep]

For all those wondering where the fun loving kid went, the blame is on we fans who analyze every fucking move and play Dr. Phil.

If you want to explore someone's psyche, go watch Oprah. This is sports.

 

[blue32]

For all those wondering where the fun loving kid went, the blame is on we fans who analyze every fucking move and play Dr. Phil.

If you want to explore someone's psyche, go watch Oprah. This is sports.

 

[MikeDC]

Well gee guys, if you're that pissed, the Bulls will happily give you anyone not named Derrick Rose for him. Yesterday.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

Nate needs to tell Oden tonight to go out there and play like it was high school all over again. Don't care, just have fun and if he fouls out in 5 minutes, GREAT!! We have Joel to back him up. Greg needs to have fun and doing that is not overthinking every flipping play!!

 

[PapaG]

For all those wondering where the fun loving kid went, the blame is on we fans who analyze every fucking move and play Dr. Phil.

If you want to explore someone's psyche, go watch Oprah. This is sports.

Commenting on an obvious difference in demeanor seems like a legit topic to me. Oden even commented on it in the latest Quick piece. Should Oden watch Oprah as well?

 

[noknobs]

He NEVER gets mad.
Shaq dunks all over him, makes him look bad. He doesn't get mad, he gets depressed.
Howard takes it to him. He doesn't get mad, he gets depressed.
Garnett trash talks the whole team. He doesn't get mad, he gets depressed.
The refs at Utah screw over the whole team, him included. He doesn't get mad, he gets depressed.

Jesus H. Christ man, get MAD, get EVEN.

I know what you're saying. But I did see him get mad last night, at himself, after he missed a shot which Aldridge luckily cleaned up. He slapped his hands and said something, looked pretty frustrated.

But as far as getting mad in general and being more animated, he kind of reminds me of myself. I just had a stoic face when I played and apparently gave off the impression I was never trying my hardest, even though I was. Some of my teammates would poke fun at that, but it wasn't serious because whatever I was doing worked. When I was in the game, I was focused on what I needed to do. I hated making mistakes in front of a lot of people and put a ton of pressure on myself. Making sure I smiled and reacted wildly to every call wasn't really a concern of mine. I didn't want to make a fool of myself by getting pissed off, I was self-conscious about that. But on the inside my emotions were always pretty high.

My experience doesn't hold a candle to Oden's current situation. And I had two legs that had never been seriously injured and did all that I expected them too. And I was this way even my senior year when I was more comfortable, knew how to play with my teammates, etc. I see what everyone else does when it comes to Oden's body language, but this is how I interpret it. I see a guy scared shitless, not wanting to fuck up, but fucking up, and then becoming even more afraid to fuck up, making him even more hesitant. It's a viscious cycle.

It has nothing to do with a lack of love for the game and not caring - I think he cares too much.

That's my psychoanalysis. That'll be $300.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

Bingo and that's why he needs a I don't give a SHIT game and just plays free. No judgement just hoops!

 

[MrJayremmie]

It has nothing to do with a lack of love for the game and not caring - I think he cares too much.

Spot on brotha!