Notice nurk is unhappy with his role

[Mr. Robot]

the guy who hasnt bought in must be roco and i can understand that, surely its frustrating to play in this offense

chauncey billups needs to find the way to involve nurk & roco more in the offense, dame & cj mccollum need to take a step back

perhaps the analytics say its best for the team if they take most of the shots, but in that case, were playing 3 on 5 on offense, nurk & roco are non factors and it will cost this team

 

[Mr. Robot]

i really cant understand why its problem to involve nurk & roco more in the offense

just give it time, a lot of time, even if there are problems with it, we can always revert to old iso bball, that will always be available with guys like dame, cj mccollum & powell

 

[bobf]

I think Nurk's been fine. But he hasn't been good enough to already be bitching about his role

and I understand what you're saying about Dame. It's a simple concept. What I'm saying is why the fuck aren't Dame's teammates picking up the slack of him not producing points as well; especially considering he's at career highs for assists and assist/turnover ratio. He's only struggling in scoring. Seems like a luxury tax payroll could make up for 6 points when scoring across the NBA is down 4.3 points

They are picking up the slack. Almost the whole team is highly efficient compared to Dame (and CJ) on the shots they take. What can anyone do to compensate for wasted possessions on poor shooting? There are only so many possessions in a game.

Here are the Blazers PPP the way I calculate it from game events. Points / Possessions used shooting or FT's (not turnovers). Bonus for drawing fouls. Continuation points counted on missed shot.

Zeller 1.400
Powell 1.355
Little 1.351
Nurkic 1.291
RoCo 1.243
Simons 1.208
Nance 1.180
McCollunm 1.104
Dame 1.041 (267 possessions)

Dame 1.316 2020-2021
Dame 1.305 2019-2020

Look at Dame compared to last two years. 0.3 PPP lower. On 267 possessions this year that's -80 points -6 points per game down the tubes. It would take a superstar to compensate for that and we don't have any other superstars.

 

[wizenheimer]

They are picking up the slack. Almost the whole team is highly efficient compared to Dame (and CJ) on the shots they take. What can anyone do to compensate for wasted possessions on poor shooting? There are only so many possessions in a game.

Here are the Blazers PPP the way I calculate it from game events. Points / Possessions used shooting or FT's (not turnovers). Bonus for drawing fouls. Continuation points counted on missed shot.

Zeller 1.400
Powell 1.355
Little 1.351
Nurkic 1.291
RoCo 1.243
Simons 1.208
Nance 1.180
McCollunm 1.104
Dame 1.041 (267 possessions)

Dame 1.316 2020-2021
Dame 1.305 2019-2020

Look at Dame compared to last two years. 0.3 PPP lower. On 267 possessions this year that's -80 points -6 points per game down the tubes. It would take a superstar to compensate for that and we don't have any other superstars.

forget about another superstar. That ain't happening since there are only a few of them in the league. It's debatable Dame is even at that level when he's playing well. The problem is Portland doesn't have anybody remotely close to all-star. All those role players in that list above Dame can't do more than play supporting roles. CJ rarely does more than support.

Dame's doing half his job, running the offense, better than he ever has, which is part of the reason those PPP's for the other players are where they are. But he's playing with supporting actors. No other leading actors. And Portland desperately needs another besides Dame

so again, when Dame isn't carrying the Blazers, they are a .500 team; maybe a little better, maybe a little worse. You can keep blaming Dame for Portland's situation this season, that's got legs. But it was Dame's legs that got Portland to the point that a .500 record looks like failure after Dame's first 9 seasons

 

[Fairly-Hard]

All of this conversation is great and all but let’s see him play an entire season. Even 65-70 games without injury.
Not talking about a sprained ankle. Talking about broken bones and other significant stuff.

 

[royo]

Nurk have to sit and watch some Shaq tapes. You are 7. You have to earn it. You have to fuckin take it from them.
You have to make midgets fear you => coach use u => fans respect the power.

I don't even know what he is trying to play atm. Olajuan? Aldridge?

Some self confidence on the floor wouldn't harm him too.

 

[Freshtown]

He’s just not good enough to be a malcontent.

 

[Pinwheel1]

If he is really unhappy....too fucking bad. But you never know for sure. I assume he wants better stats so he can get paid more this summer.
I just don't think he is good enough offensively for a bigger role.

 

[wizenheimer]

If he is really unhappy....too fucking bad. But you never know for sure. I assume he wants better stats so he can get paid more this summer.
I just don't think he is good enough offensively for a bigger role.

yeah, I think there's frustration because this his contract year and he's thinking he may be losing millions by not being a featured player

 

[AldoTrapani]

Man this guy acts like he’s a superstar. This is why I never was high on this guy. He’s always bitching

 

[GDiama]

This guy has such a bad attitude. Honestly one of the bigger crybabies to every play basketball. Maybe it's because mr.Robot is reporting even when Nurk goes to toilet that i get this crybaby feeling but it is always about how he is being misused, underappreciated etc. Seriously it's annoying.

So he thinks Billups is not still trying to change our old bad habits and he feels lied to? Right now Nurk is the least of our problems regarding how we play and he still wants to make it about himself? Everything else is clicking and only thing missing is to get Nurk more touches. Yeah right. Instead of supporting a new coach trying to shake things up he is liking posts that call him a lier. Great job.

 

[BonesJones]

He's not the same player he was before the injury. The fact that the we are a below .500 team shows that his impact is lacking.

Just because you say it doesn't mean he's true. He's been great defensively all year long. He's averaging a career high 1.5 steals per game despite playing only 25mpg. He's near the top of the league in deflections for centers. He's rebounding better than he ever has. He's also shooting a career high 60% from two.

But yeah, not the same player.

 

[Tince]

Just because you say it doesn't mean he's true. He's been great defensively all year long. He's averaging a career high 1.5 steals per game despite playing only 25mpg. He's near the top of the league in deflections for centers. He's rebounding better than he ever has. He's also shooting a career high 60% from two.

But yeah, not the same player.

So if he's playing so well, why is he upset? If he's playing so well, why is Billups out to get him?

 

[Labinot41]

Dunk the ball and play like beast Nurk and not pussy Nurk and you automatically get a bigger role

 

[GDiama]

So if he's playing so well, why is he upset? If he's playing so well, why is Billups out to get him?

Maybe Billups doesn't like winning so he doesn't give him more minutes?

 

[Tince]

Maybe Billups doesn't like winning so he doesn't give him more minutes?

This kinda seems like the logic we're dealing with here.

The new head coach cares more about holding back Nurk than he does winning. As did Nurks' previous head coach and Nurks' head coach before that. They all care more about holding him back than the overall success of the team.

OR they've came to the conclusion, that he's unable to play a ton of minutes in a larger role and give the team the best chance to win.

One outcome makes far more sense than the other.

 

[bobf]

forget about another superstar. That ain't happening since there are only a few of them in the league. It's debatable Dame is even at that level when he's playing well. The problem is Portland doesn't have anybody remotely close to all-star. All those role players in that list above Dame can't do more than play supporting roles. CJ rarely does more than support.

Dame's doing half his job, running the offense, better than he ever has, which is part of the reason those PPP's for the other players are where they are. But he's playing with supporting actors. No other leading actors. And Portland desperately needs another besides Dame

so again, when Dame isn't carrying the Blazers, they are a .500 team; maybe a little better, maybe a little worse. You can keep blaming Dame for Portland's situation this season, that's got legs. But it was Dame's legs that got Portland to the point that a .500 record looks like failure after Dame's first 9 seasons

I agree 100% with everything you said and I don’t think I’ve said anything that conflicts with it. But doing half his job better than ever doesn’t remotely offset the other half. My bottom line is not to blame Dame, I know he’s trying, it is to say Dame has to get back to Dame efficiency or we’re screwed.

 

[royo]

It is bit strange, how Nurk think he is best 5 in the NBA, CJ thinks he is Batman saving Gotham in 4th qtrs and Dame...
Was Dame ever complaining about all stars, NBA first 5, MVP or anything with his team never being contender?
Did Melo attitude helped them to mature?

I don't follow rest of the league half as deep as Blazers, but I guess there are this kind of problems in other teams. Young guys with big egos complaining. At the same time chemistry in the team is great. Best culture in the whole league.
Are we whinners?

 

[BonesJones]

So if he's playing so well, why is he upset? If he's playing so well, why is Billups out to get him?

Because we're not utilizing him as a passer, and we run zero sets that are designed to get him a good look.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

We all have watched what happens when you try to run the offense through Nurk. Billups tried to "Run the Offense through Nurk". The Blazers ended up leading the league in Turnovers.
Nurk is not a good passer. Way too lazy and he tries to "Show" or do a "Cute" pass again and again. Same flip he does instead of dunking the ball.
You also cannot run a bunch of "Sets" through a player that is not a threat to score from beyond 5 ft out. Nurk does not command any respect for the Pick N Pop so defenders can key on him going to the basket or trying to slice a pass to a cutter.

This is basketball 101. Nurk simply does not have the skillset or maybe "Mindset" on offense that will make him successful on that end of the court. Aldridge is soft but he could shoot. Pryzbilla was tough as nails but couldn't shoot.

Nurk is soft and can't shoot.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Here's another little tid bit about Nurk.
While Lillard pretty much has the ball in his hands constantly during the game he is ranked 34th in the league in turnovers with 32 total turnovers.
Nurk who is upset he is not being utilized well sits 40th with 29 turnovers. Three players with 31 and 2 with 30.

Nurk does not handle the ball well and we all see and watch it every game. In 325 minutes he is the worst player on the team to have handling the ball.

CJ McCollum ranked #51 with 27

One thing is for certain Simons has played 294 mins. About 2/3 of both Lillard (456 mins) and CJ(453 mins). He has 14 turnovers. Simons does pretty well with the ball in his hands.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Chauncey isn't utilizing Nurkic like he said he would. I can't blame Nurkic if he feels lied to. Being upset about that combined with how much he's hated on by the fanbase isn't an immaturity thing

Nurk is getting the ball a lot when Dame is trapped. Sometimes good things happen, but oftentimes he forces awkward shots, gets blocked, or blows a layup. Nurk is certainly not punishing opponents in these situation. I don't know how Billups can utilize Nurk more, its not like Nurk can lead the offense.

Nurk defense is good and he certainly has value as a role player. But he's not a feature player, and if he thinks he should be I'd be fine with him walking in the summer or trading him now. I just don't believe any team is giving up a first round pick or any useful value for Nurk.

 

[TBpup]

Because we're not utilizing him as a passer, and we run zero sets that are designed to get him a good look.

"Zero"? Almost every time Dame runs a PnR with him, it gets him the opportunity for a very good look. Because he flips it up like a scared 7th grader is his issue, not the issue of the look he has been provided.

 

[andalusian]

A guy with an asst to to ratio of 1:1 should not be used as a passer

 

[riverman]

This whole team is a work in progress right now....Nurk misses bunnies at the rim but you know what? So has Dame and CJ and Ant and others.....I'm not throwing Nurk under the bus 13 games in when he's been great on defense and has had some impactful games....he had one real clunker game. from my view...we were blown out with 30 turnovers which made the whole team more hesitant to thread the needle with passes...Nurk has stayed out of foul trouble and rebounded well....I think this is fishing for another Blazer complaint scapegoat....Nurk has mood swings...like many young people do. He acts bummed after a loss or poor performance doesn't translate into him whining...it just means he's affected by outcomes. You win and lose as a team.....we're pretty much half and half so far. I'm cheering for the guy just like I'm cheering for Dame even though Dame has been horrible shooting the ball most of the season so far....it'll click, right now it's not yet...this will take some time to gel

 

[wizenheimer]

I agree 100% with everything you said and I don’t think I’ve said anything that conflicts with it. But doing half his job better than ever doesn’t remotely offset the other half. My bottom line is not to blame Dame, I know he’s trying, it is to say Dame has to get back to Dame efficiency or we’re screwed.

I don't think we're really disagreeing on any of that. Portland is less that mediocre right now because Dame is shooting the ball poorly. And there seems to be a confluence of very realistic reasons why he's shooting poorly

all I'm doing is pushing back on blaming Dame for Portland's situation because I don't believe it's his fault the Blazer record is so dependent on him playing at an elite level in all phases of the game. It's the fault of the GM who somehow can't seem to find any way to bring in any player who can be an all-star level partner to Dame.

If you credit the numerous reports that Chad Buchanan (& staff) and Paul Allen had already settled on Dame as the target in 2012 before Olshey was hired, than in 10 off-seasons; and 9 trade deadlines; and 10 drafts, Olshey has not landed a single all-star. No player capable of diverting defenses from total focus on Dame. No player who could consistently run an offense. He's done some good things, but the balance is heavily slanted toward timidity and incompetence. Year after year he's ridden Dame to millions and millions in his own salary and hasn't repaid that debt. No wonder Dame plays injured...he's had to carry the team and Stotts and Olshey's snake oil ass for a decade

 

[Fairly-Hard]

"Zero"? Almost every time Dame runs a PnR with him, it gets him the opportunity for a very good look. Because he flips it up like a scared 7th grader is his issue, not the issue of the look he has been provided.

Time and time again.
To be fair here it works quite often. It’s worth running.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

This whole team is a work in progress right now....Nurk misses bunnies at the rim but you know what? So has Dame and CJ and Ant and others.....I'm not throwing Nurk under the bus 13 games in when he's been great on defense and has had some impactful games....he had one real clunker game. from my view...we were blown out with 30 turnovers which made the whole team more hesitant to thread the needle with passes...Nurk has stayed out of foul trouble and rebounded well....I think this is fishing for another Blazer complaint scapegoat....Nurk has mood swings...like many young people do. He acts bummed after a loss or poor performance doesn't translate into him whining...it just means he's affected by outcomes. You win and lose as a team.....we're pretty much half and half so far. I'm cheering for the guy just like I'm cheering for Dame even though Dame has been horrible shooting the ball most of the season so far....it'll click, right now it's not yet...this will take some time to gel

This whole thread is not us throwing Nurk under a bus. It’s Nurk trying to cryptically throw Billups or others under the bus.
Nurk started this conversation not us.

 

[Tince]

Because we're not utilizing him as a passer, and we run zero sets that are designed to get him a good look.

And why do you think every coach he's had is purposely not utilizing him correctly? Doesn't that seem counterintuitive?

Could one coach not see his potential? Sure. Two coaches both miss on it? Maybe. All three coaches? Highly unlikley.

 

[riverman]

This whole thread is not us throwing Nurk under a bus. It’s Nurk trying to cryptically throw Billups or others under the bus.
Nurk started this conversation not us.

We disagree about this....I don't read that into Nurk's reactions at all.....to me the guy just is wired for mood swings and it's no big deal....I think the overreaction to Nurk is fueled by fans and his teammates and the coaching staff would not see it that way either....choices. Where did he ever throw Chauncey under the bus? Neil maybe, but Chauncey? nah.......where did Nurk say he's unhappy with his role on this team since Chauncey took over? Some emoji? I'm running? Maybe I'm missing something here but I don't see it. When fans think Nurk plays like a 7th grader I'm going to call it out. His misses are no different from our other players bricked layups...he has been getting charges called for going strong to the hoop and I'm sure staying out of foul trouble is part of that in his mind.