NY Rangers Future.....Concerning

[NYR2009]

I have been reading your posts this postseason and following the news as we all have. The future of NY Rangers is concerning IMO. I am not criticizing Sather here, I just think Puliot effect plus lack of high picks will kill our chances of winning the SC many years to come and I don't think anything can be done at this point. Here is why.

First, our defense is solid and of course with Lundy our D and G is set to be elite for many years to come. The defense and HK will carry us into playoffs every year but defense and Lundqvist will not win us the Cup. With Stall resigned plus John Moore possibly replacing Boyle in two years our D and goalies will cost about $33M, assuming first 4 Ds cost 20M, 10M for both goalies and 3M for 5th and 6th D. That is a great defense and given our chronic lack of offense we need that defense.

Now our offense, who do we really have? Stepan, Nash, Krieder, Brassard, Zuk and Hagelin. Stepan will cost at least 6 in no time, Nash will deteriorate each year, Brassard and Zuk will cost 10M and Hagelin will make his 4M if we keep him, if not I am sure he will get his Pouliot contract for sure. Krieder will make at least 5M in two years. That is our core and total cost about another 33M. B,Z,K = 5M, Step = 6M, Hagelin - 4M and Nash =8 and grand total = 33M for 6 forwards. Okay lets say we have 5M cost for the 4th line which is not easy to get these days, but let's say we have that. So far we got 33M for defense, 38M for 9 forwards = 71M total and we are missing at least 3 forwards not to mention few extra players to carry 22 player roster.

Can this team win a Cup? And we really do not have any great prospects. I thought JT Miller and McIlrath would work out and both still may, I just don't think they will. We do not really have next 3rd rounder like Cali or Dubi who should have been 1st rounders.

I mean Stepan is good, Zuk is good, Brassard is good but they are not Joe Pavelski or Logan Couture.

Defense will do it's job but we are missing 3 decent players for the 3rd line to win, or one elite scorer with few role players around that scorer to win and there is no money unless the cap goes up significantly. That missing players should cost at least 12M plus two 1M players as scratches and then we are at 85M. When will the salary cap be at 85M?

 

[strudwickisthebest]

I see what you mean. Last year the team was deep bit really didn't click until after the holidays. Like Sather said, they didn't win. We'll see but I also do not feel comfortable with Glass/Stempniak/Lombardi over Pouliot/Boyle/Richards

 

[strudwickisthebest]

The only saving grace is I think players will get better. Kreider, Hagelin, etc should put up better numbers

 

[NYR31]

I don't see us getting much more out of Hagelin than what we're currently seeing. He's a 3rd liner, so 45pts is probably a good year for him. Kreider, on the other hand, needs to get his head out of his ass and become a 50+pt player next year.

 

[Stepupstepan]

I have been reading your posts this postseason and following the news as we all have. The future of NY Rangers is concerning IMO. I am not criticizing Sather here, I just think Puliot effect plus lack of high picks will kill our chances of winning the SC many years to come and I don't think anything can be done at this point. Here is why.

First, our defense is solid and of course with Lundy our D and G is set to be elite for many years to come. The defense and HK will carry us into playoffs every year but defense and Lundqvist will not win us the Cup. With Stall resigned plus John Moore possibly replacing Boyle in two years our D and goalies will cost about $33M, assuming first 4 Ds cost 20M, 10M for both goalies and 3M for 5th and 6th D. That is a great defense and given our chronic lack of offense we need that defense.

Now our offense, who do we really have? Stepan, Nash, Krieder, Brassard, Zuk and Hagelin. Stepan will cost at least 6 in no time, Nash will deteriorate each year, Brassard and Zuk will cost 10M and Hagelin will make his 4M if we keep him, if not I am sure he will get his Pouliot contract for sure. Krieder will make at least 5M in two years. That is our core and total cost about another 33M. B,Z,K = 5M, Step = 6M, Hagelin - 4M and Nash =8 and grand total = 33M for 6 forwards. Okay lets say we have 5M cost for the 4th line which is not easy to get these days, but let's say we have that. So far we got 33M for defense, 38M for 9 forwards = 71M total and we are missing at least 3 forwards not to mention few extra players to carry 22 player roster.

Can this team win a Cup? And we really do not have any great prospects. I thought JT Miller and McIlrath would work out and both still may, I just don't think they will. We do not really have next 3rd rounder like Cali or Dubi who should have been 1st rounders.

I mean Stepan is good, Zuk is good, Brassard is good but they are not Joe Pavelski or Logan Couture.

Defense will do it's job but we are missing 3 decent players for the 3rd line to win, or one elite scorer with few role players around that scorer to win and there is no money unless the cap goes up significantly. That missing players should cost at least 12M plus two 1M players as scratches and then we are at 85M. When will the salary cap be at 85M?

Funny, you mentioned Joe Pavelski or Logan Couture. What have the sharks won with those two? At least, we got to the finals with Stepan, Zuk, and Brass. Sure this team can win the cup if they add a big skilled center during the season. Look at the guys who left. Boyle = slow, BRich = slow. Pouliot got way overpaid. Dorcett? Ehh. Anton S was good at times but not a great d-men. I feel this team wont be worse than last year team. They are even faster now. Is it better? probably not but they can improve the roster during the season.

 

[Stepupstepan]

I see what you mean. Last year the team was deep bit really didn't click until after the holidays. Like Sather said, they didn't win. We'll see but I also do not feel comfortable with Glass/Stempniak/Lombardi over Pouliot/Boyle/Richards

Glass was a weird signing but otherwise, this team is faster now. That's what AV wants so the new guys fit into AV system.

 

[mrmel29]

And we really do not have any great prospects. I thought JT Miller and McIlrath would work out and both still may, I just don't think they will. We do not really have next 3rd rounder like Cali or Dubi who should have been 1st rounders.

NYR2009, we have 3 kids that look like big time prospects coming: Anthony Duclair, 19 next month who scored 50 goals and 99 points in jrs last year who will get a shot to make the team this year that skates in the hags and kreider class, can score and plays defense, Pavel Buchnevich, 19 who also is a fast skater, good playmaker and can score and might be signed after russiona season ends next april and brady skjei, who is big, fast and has a rocket shot from the point that gordie clark already asked the kid to turn pro although he's going back to school for one more year and could be a late season addition at the end of the year ala kreider or at worst will be a part of the team the season after. I think the future is bright for this team.

 

[Disturbed]

ECF 2 years out of 3. Finals last year losing 3 games on the road in OT. Of the CORE players on this team (not spare parts) only Lundqvist and St Louis are over 30. Yeah the future is really bleak

 

[Pastafazul]

I have been reading your posts this postseason and following the news as we all have. The future of NY Rangers is concerning IMO. I am not criticizing Sather here, I just think Puliot effect plus lack of high picks will kill our chances of winning the SC many years to come and I don't think anything can be done at this point. Here is why.

First, our defense is solid and of course with Lundy our D and G is set to be elite for many years to come. The defense and HK will carry us into playoffs every year but defense and Lundqvist will not win us the Cup. With Stall resigned plus John Moore possibly replacing Boyle in two years our D and goalies will cost about $33M, assuming first 4 Ds cost 20M, 10M for both goalies and 3M for 5th and 6th D. That is a great defense and given our chronic lack of offense we need that defense.

Now our offense, who do we really have? Stepan, Nash, Krieder, Brassard, Zuk and Hagelin. Stepan will cost at least 6 in no time, Nash will deteriorate each year, Brassard and Zuk will cost 10M and Hagelin will make his 4M if we keep him, if not I am sure he will get his Pouliot contract for sure. Krieder will make at least 5M in two years. That is our core and total cost about another 33M. B,Z,K = 5M, Step = 6M, Hagelin - 4M and Nash =8 and grand total = 33M for 6 forwards. Okay lets say we have 5M cost for the 4th line which is not easy to get these days, but let's say we have that. So far we got 33M for defense, 38M for 9 forwards = 71M total and we are missing at least 3 forwards not to mention few extra players to carry 22 player roster.

Can this team win a Cup? And we really do not have any great prospects. I thought JT Miller and McIlrath would work out and both still may, I just don't think they will. We do not really have next 3rd rounder like Cali or Dubi who should have been 1st rounders.

I mean Stepan is good, Zuk is good, Brassard is good but they are not Joe Pavelski or Logan Couture.

Defense will do it's job but we are missing 3 decent players for the 3rd line to win, or one elite scorer with few role players around that scorer to win and there is no money unless the cap goes up significantly. That missing players should cost at least 12M plus two 1M players as scratches and then we are at 85M. When will the salary cap be at 85M?

lost u on the 1st line, our d is elite, only player that show signs of it and i say shows signs is mcdonagh and he cannot sustain

 

[panzerporter]

I agree the defense and goaltending is solid for the upcoming season but I think it's way premature to say the team is doomed. Let's not forget that many key players were injured (Kreider, Stepan, Girardi) and they still gave a loaded King team a run for their money. I can't see how you can think Miller & McIlrath won't work out when they have had very little experience and as Mel pointed out there are some propects making name for themselves at a young age. I still think Sather is going to make some type of trade to address the glut of dman and relieve the cap situation. AV is going to have a team more suited to his style of play rather than trying to utilize what he inherited from Torts.

The only guy the Rangers might miss is Richards due to his offense but the slow skating Brad didn't score enough to offset his cap crushing salary or the absolute zero he was physically/defensively. I always liked Boyle but he is the softest big man perhaps in NHL history and aside from one year just can't score. Glen could not afford to pay Brian what the market offered. Pouliot is now with his 6th team going into his 8th pro season. Another big softie with a penchant for taking dumb penalties especially in the offensive zone and hardly a prolific scorer. Asking any of the new signings to match Benoit's whopping 36 points in 80 games is hardly a challenge. Dorsett was a great punching bag and his peskiness could earn the occasional PP but he took twice as many stupid penalties. I think the Rangers can find someone to muster Derek's 8 points scored last year (Jed Ortmeyer still playing?).

I may be the only one at this time who liked the Glass signing (think that will change during next season) since he provides the physical play mostly lacking from this squad. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get time on Nash's line to keep Rick from having to look over his shoulder for the impending cheap shot. Nash is the guy who has to start earning the paycheck and is the key to next year's success. MSL remains a huge offensive upgrade over Captain Cashmoney and should easily surpass Richards numbers with a much better +/- in a full season. I think there's much more to be optimistic about this upcoming year since many of the bigger questions going into the start of last season (can AV coach in NY? Brad Richards contract? Hank's contract? the PP?) have been addressed.

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

lets see Christian Dube, nonononon..Christian Thomas, opps wrong again..oh yeah thats right its Anthony Duclair get out junior, never mind the AHL.

Take those stats and just remember what your looking at.
Remember this guy

68 games played, 73 goals 61 assits in first year of junior
61gp, 59g, 51a in second year of junior in the Western Hockey League for the Calgary Hitmen...

thats right folks we are talking about the next great thing Pavel Brendl

 

[chuckd3534]

ECF 2 years out of 3. Finals last year losing 3 games on the road in OT. Of the CORE players on this team (not spare parts) only Lundqvist and St Louis are over 30. Yeah the future is really bleak

Funny thread. Ranger fans being Ranger fans.

Now do I think we are better than when we ended last season on paper...no. I actually think on paper we are a little worse, but it is pretty close. And I think a lot of it will come down to Nash and a kid or two stepping up.

Panzer had a solid breakdown, and I agree with a lot of his comments. Flipping Richards, Boyle, Dorsett, Pouliot, and Stralman FOR Lombardi, Stemp, Glass, and Boyle is not this huge downgrade.

Pouliot had 15 goals and 36 points. Stemp can do close to that IMO (he was 12 and 34 last season).

We all hated Boyle for a long time in here, now we all love him and act as if he is some big loss. He had 6 goals and 18 points. His loss will be felt on the PK and in the faceoff circle. Glass had 4 goals and 13 points in 15 less games than Boyle, so again not this major drop. Lose some faceoff ability, and that is a concern for me, but not some major drop.

Stralman had 1 goal and 13 points last season. Boyle had 12 goals and 36 points last season. So that is a clear large upgrade on O for the dmen. And last I checked that was something we all complained about every single season. Sure we lose something on D going from Stral to Boyle, but again last I checked D wasn't our issue AND most importantly Stralman was an average dman IMO, someone most of us knocked very often, that turned 25 good playoff games into this top 4 stud dman who was worthy of a 5 year deal at 4.5 per...PASS. We know the real Stralman. A nice dman who is solid all around, but not special at anything, and I rather have Boyle for 2 years than Stral for 5. At the very least this is a wash IMO. With a chance it could be a win for us if Stralman becomes the average run of the mill dman we saw prior to the playoffs.

Dorsett was a 4th line guy who added some energy, and surpringly had solid speed, but I really wouldn't call him much of a loss, or someone that can't be replaced by a kid.

The area we did take a drop was Richards to Lombardi. Richards, for all his faults, did have 20 goals last season with 51 points. That is not something you replace easily on a team that sometimes struggles to score. Lombardi is a question mark who didn't play in the NHL last season. In his last two NHL seasons he has played 90 games with 12 goals and 26 points, that is not good, and he concerns me. He is very fast, but he is also small. So I do have my concerns going from Richards to Lombardi. BUT we had to buy Richards out. It was a move that needed to be made. And Richards is trending down as we all know. I don't think we would have seen 20/50 from him again next season. Plus his lack of speed really stood out considering the direction this team in going.

So yeah I do think on paper it is fair to say we have taken a little step back. I also think it is fair to be concerned based on the SCF losing teams recent history of strugging the following season. BUT I also think we have upside.

I think it is fair to say Kreider coud go 25/45 this season. I think it is fair to expect more from Nash this season. The dude had 26 goals and 39 points last season. And outside of a 15 or so game stretch really was not good last season. I would fully expect a 30 + goal/57 + point season out of Nash this year assuming health (he scored 57 or more points for 7 straight seasons prior to last season if you give him 57 or more in the lockout season when he had 42 points in 44 games). I fully expect Stepan to take another step up. If he doesn't score 20 goals, or very close to it, and 60 + points I will be very surprised. I fully expect that season out of Stepan, who after a slow start got his numbers up to 17/57 last season. I fully expect another step up from McDonagh. I think 15/50 is very doable for him. A top 5-7 dman in the NHL IMO. And I also think a little step up can come from Hags and Brassard. Not huge jumps, but I think they could have a little more upside. Having MSL for a full season is also a huge boost to our O. He should go at least 25/60 no doubt IMO. Those numbers would be his "worst" season in 12 years. And a kid or two may come in and surprise, I think Miller is the most likely candidate considering he may get top 9 minutes.

So there is reason to believe we could be better than last season despite looking a little worse on paper.

On the flip side one could argue that Zucc is not a 19/59 player and will take a step back. BUT even if he does I still see 15/45 or so as his floor. So not a giant drop. And outside of Zucc I don't see a lot of downside for our guys. I know people like to get on Girardi and Staal, but I see no reason to think they won't play their typical solid games this season.

So yeah I am a little concerned given some of the losses, but I really don't think at days end we are that much different when you look at who went out and who came in. And I do think there is clear upside there as well.

3rd line scoring, something that IMO made us the team we were last season AND C depth are the biggest questions IMO. We'll see how it plays out.

 

[chuckd3534]

As for youth and age stuff...I flat out say BS.

Brass 27. Miller 21. Stepan 24. Hags 26. Kreider 23. Zucc 27. McD 25. Moore 23. Staal 27.

Look at all those good players 27 or under. Doesn't even count McIlrath, Fast, Lindberg. Girardi and Nash are both only 30 within the past 3 months.

So we have plenty of youth on this team. That is NOT an issue. The only spot I point to age is with Hank. He is 32 now, so not old, but his window to win is now. The next 2 or 3 seasons. This is now 100% in Hank's window. Outside of that I have no age concerns at all.

And these picks we traded, come on, did I miss the top 10 pick we dealt? This past seasons pick was # 28. Yeah, we are crushed by not having the 28th pick. And now that Cally is back with TB, we get their 2nd next season, which won't be more than 15 or so picks worse than the 1st we gave TB this past draft. So again please don't get worked up over this pick thing.

 

[mrmel29]

lets see Christian Dube, nonononon..Christian Thomas, opps wrong again..oh yeah thats right its Anthony Duclair get out junior, never mind the AHL.

Take those stats and just remember what your looking at.
Remember this guy

68 games played, 73 goals 61 assits in first year of junior
61gp, 59g, 51a in second year of junior in the Western Hockey League for the Calgary Hitmen...

thats right folks we are talking about the next great thing Pavel Brendl

Al, good comparison in terms of junior offensive stats. But I think big difference between these 2 is that brendl came in to camp out of shape, played no defense and with a bad attitude and was lazy according to most reports while duclair had a similar attitude reputation which is why he went 3rd round instead of first round in the draft. Duclair it is said was straightened out by his coach of a year or 2 patrick roy before he went to colorado and the attitude is now to the point where the kid it is said stayed behind after the season to greet new players coming onto the junior team and is captain material there now. Another words the light bulb in this kids head looks like it went off thanks to roy and the changes he made himself. I think he'll make an impression in upcoming rangers camp and they may even take a look at him for the 9 game free look but ultimately I think it will come down whether they think he is physically mature enough at this point to take the nhl pounding. I believe the kid stands 6'0 and is 180lbs right now. Most likely the kid goes back to juniors this year and next year either makes the big club out of camp or gets a little seasoning in hartford first. I think the bottom line though is this kid will be a player for us sooner than later with an improved maturity and understanding level of what it will take to make it in the nhl. And Al, still amazed at your 20 yr old picture LOL you posted in the playoffs.

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

You should have seen the 15 minutes of goatee I had going....
Hey thats great if the reports are true and his attitude has been rearranged. Apparently he has nhl plus speed but little off on nhl size...the question has to be does he have a plus nhl shot. Speed is wonderful but we have hags, we have st loius, we have zucc...where does this kid end up, another hags or a st loius?

 

[Ranger71]

They may take a little step back defensively but offensively I don't think there's a doubt they're quicker and more skillful. I liked Stralman but he's not irreplaceable and they needed the element of Boyle on defense. I think the 4th line will actually be better since they'll be a little more balance of skill there. If Miller and Lindberg can emerge that will only help. I bet they make some sort of in-season trade for a bigger offensive piece.

 

[mrmel29]

Duclair goal yesterday… enjoy

 

[NYR31]

Damn, he's lefty, too? i thought he was a RH shot. Sweet move and like the drive to the net, but i can't get excited til he does something at least in the AHL.

 

[mrmel29]

Damn, he's lefty, too? i thought he was a RH shot. Sweet move and like the drive to the net, but i can't get excited til he does something at least in the AHL.

I'm thinking if he wows in camp you may get your wish with the 9 game free look the teams have before they have to send him back to juniors or keep him. Also, at the end of video the far right hand side of collage are a highlight tape of him which I thought was funny as the announcer kept calling him Tony D.

 

[cagedlion]

The trend in hockey is that each year is a new year. Very rare that rosters
stay the same (exceptions: LA Kings, Chi Hawks, Bos Bruins)

It looks like Ranger roster will be different every year.

 

[ourwidereceiverssuck]

Kings are completely screwed after this year with the cap. They will lose 5 to 6 players. Unlike Sather, they will deal them earlier for a good return. Dumbass Sather just lets players walk for nothing.

 

[mrmel29]

Don't see who sather let go for nothing. Pouliot, boyle and strahlman were not getting big returns from anyone. Now if he doesn't resign or trade staal and lets him go for nothing I will agree with you. We were just in the finals. Slats or groton whoever is pulling the strings these days has done a good job in the offseason and hayes is the latest addition in addition to a bunch of college free agents with some upside. Duclair and buch are on their way in another year or 2 and both look like they could be above average players so I think the future looks bright for our rangers.