Zombie [NY Times] Trump tax returns

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MarAzul said:
I can't understand the outrage here, losses offset profit. Is this new news to the liberal mind? How the hell else would you like it to work?
Sounds like you want a fixed tax for breathing.
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Not outrage, just explaining that many people will have an issue with Trumps central claim 'he is the best businessman'. Any single issue is easily overlooked, but when he is repeatedly accused of participating in scam businesses, when he began his business with a hefty loan from his dad, who also had all the NY real-estate connections, then it looks like he isn't as wealthy as he asserts, appears to have gigantic financial losses and his companies have gone bankrupt many times.

If you claim to be the strongest, how much can you lift? Claim to be the smartest, what's your IQ? Claim to be the tallest, the best at basketball, the best dancer, whatever you want. But when those claims are made you are going to be judged accordingly. Trumps main claim is that he's the best businessman.
 
Denny Crane said:
Tax returns are not true financial statements. A company can show lots of profit on its actual books while showing losses for tax purposes. In fact, when preparing a tax return, you want to show as little income (legitimately) as possible so you don't have to overpay taxes.
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Agreed, he should release audited financial statements for his companies as well as his tax returns.

barfo
 
Further said:
'he is the best businessman'
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>> I heard he was good. Never heard the Best.

Further said:
Trumps main claim is that he's the best businessman.
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>>> It does seem he is pretty good. Bankrupt in 95 but now has come to be worth 10 billion or 3 billion depending on whom you believe. It beats the hell out of my performance and nearly everyone that comes to mind.

Further said:
If you claim to be the strongest, how much can you lift? Claim to be the smartest, what's your IQ? Claim to be the tallest, the best at basketball, the best dancer, whatever you want.
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I probably can only compete in one category and it ain't dancing.
 
barfo said:
Agreed, he should release audited financial statements for his companies as well as his tax returns.

barfo
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Some of his companies are public. They're required to file financial statements.

Yet he's served no jail time. Scams being illegal and all.
 
John Kerry was the Democratic nominee in 2004. He married a $billionaire, who was the Heinz ketchup heiress. Heinz was not a public company.

She released only a few pages of her 2003 tax return.

Those whining about Trump's returns didn't put up a fuss about Kerry's. Hypocrites.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/16/p...-part-of-her-2003-income-tax-return.html?_r=0

Tax documents that would indicate if Ms. Heinz Kerry has offshore accounts were withheld, as were the schedules detailing her charitable deductions, interest expenses and the nature of the $14,412 in capital gains she reported. But Paul Bschorr, a lawyer for Ms. Heinz Kerry, said Friday that none of her personal investment accounts or accounts controlled by her family trust are deposited outside the United States, a step some wealthy American use to defer or escape taxes.

No information was provided about how much income was earned by trusts of which she is the beneficiary. If the trusts are as large as reported -- and the Kerry campaign has not challenged the billion dollar estimate -- then even a modest 5 percent return would have generated $50 million of income, 10 times what was on the two pages released by Ms. Heinz Kerry. A statement released by the Kerry campaign noted that income taxes are paid directly by the Heinz family trust, in addition to taxes that Ms. Heinz Kerry pays.

Ms. Heinz Kerry released her tax return this week because she had requested an tax-filing extension last spring.
 
Denny Crane said:
John Kerry was the Democratic nominee in 2004. He married a $billionaire, who was the Heinz ketchup heiress. Heinz was not a public company.

She released only a few pages of her 2003 tax return.

Those whining about Trump's returns didn't put up a fuss about Kerry's. Hypocrites.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/16/p...-part-of-her-2003-income-tax-return.html?_r=0

Tax documents that would indicate if Ms. Heinz Kerry has offshore accounts were withheld, as were the schedules detailing her charitable deductions, interest expenses and the nature of the $14,412 in capital gains she reported. But Paul Bschorr, a lawyer for Ms. Heinz Kerry, said Friday that none of her personal investment accounts or accounts controlled by her family trust are deposited outside the United States, a step some wealthy American use to defer or escape taxes.

No information was provided about how much income was earned by trusts of which she is the beneficiary. If the trusts are as large as reported -- and the Kerry campaign has not challenged the billion dollar estimate -- then even a modest 5 percent return would have generated $50 million of income, 10 times what was on the two pages released by Ms. Heinz Kerry. A statement released by the Kerry campaign noted that income taxes are paid directly by the Heinz family trust, in addition to taxes that Ms. Heinz Kerry pays.

Ms. Heinz Kerry released her tax return this week because she had requested an tax-filing extension last spring.
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Denny you've really practiced for the job of Trump's campaign manager.....John Kerry's wife, what about Mitt Romney and his offshore accounts? Or any other rich and powerful person with political ambitions.....fuck Trump but not just because he's a 1 percenter but because he's a guy who takes vets donation charity money and pays legal fees with it or commissions portraits of himself...tell me more about John Kerry's big cover up and why I missed out on whining about it...fact is, people did talk about Kerry's wealth and Romney's wealth..this is not an isolated incident in their world. Sure...but it just does nothing but lump Trump in with some people who in my view are of higher character than Trump....and I think Kerry and Romney are both more impressive men than he is..Trump is so far removed from the working man or middle class that he hasn't a clue how shallow his mask is
 
Denny Crane said:
John Kerry was the Democratic nominee in 2004. He married a $billionaire, who was the Heinz ketchup heiress. Heinz was not a public company.

She released only a few pages of her 2003 tax return.

Those whining about Trump's returns didn't put up a fuss about Kerry's. Hypocrites.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/16/p...-part-of-her-2003-income-tax-return.html?_r=0

Tax documents that would indicate if Ms. Heinz Kerry has offshore accounts were withheld, as were the schedules detailing her charitable deductions, interest expenses and the nature of the $14,412 in capital gains she reported. But Paul Bschorr, a lawyer for Ms. Heinz Kerry, said Friday that none of her personal investment accounts or accounts controlled by her family trust are deposited outside the United States, a step some wealthy American use to defer or escape taxes.

No information was provided about how much income was earned by trusts of which she is the beneficiary. If the trusts are as large as reported -- and the Kerry campaign has not challenged the billion dollar estimate -- then even a modest 5 percent return would have generated $50 million of income, 10 times what was on the two pages released by Ms. Heinz Kerry. A statement released by the Kerry campaign noted that income taxes are paid directly by the Heinz family trust, in addition to taxes that Ms. Heinz Kerry pays.

Ms. Heinz Kerry released her tax return this week because she had requested an tax-filing extension last spring.
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Do you have a copy of their prenup?
 
I'll just put my answers in boldface. Too tired to do it fancy.

Denny Crane said:
For the accountant types out there... he could have had $1B in losses due to depreciation alone. That wouldn't say squat about his ability as a businessman - in fact it would say he's brilliant at it.

I don't see any such scenario in 1995. How much was he supposedly worth then?

Prior to the Reagan tax cuts, tax law was quite different regarding real estate and NYTimes isn't going to talk about that. For every ~$3500 in income, a rich person needed $100K in real estate to pay $0 in tax due to depreciation. That deduction was eliminated as part of the tax cuts - the RICH had to pay (more) in taxes.

He reported his loss in 1995. 2 presidents after Reagan.

In Vegas, they build casinos that cost multiple $billions. A sub $1B loss in an environment when banks and S&Ls were going belly up doesn't speak to success at all.

This was 1995, not 2007.

Obama lost $500M+ on Solyndra alone, and another $500M+ on Fisker Automotive. And he left us $10T more in debt when he left. Why do you think trusting liberal politicians is any better?

Do you have evidence that Obama owned those 2 companies?

There are better reasons to not vote for Trump. He's a racist. Good enough for me. For the accountant types: How can capital losses wash ordinary income as the NYTimes claims? My understanding is that it can only wipe out capital gains going forward.

I haven't read the article. Is this his personal tax or corporate? Carrybacks are allowed for corporations.

Corporations with net losses of any size can re-file their tax forms for the previous three years and use the losses to offset gains reported in those years. This results in a refund of capital gains taxes paid previously. After the carryback, a corporation can carry any unused portion of the loss forward for five years to offset future gains.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States
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Denny Crane said:
More recently, for tax year 2014, The New York Times paid no taxes and got an income tax refund of $3.5 million even though they had a pre-tax profit of $29.9 million in 2014. In other words, their post-tax profit was higher than their pre-tax profit. The explanation in their 2014 annual report is, “The effective tax rate for 2014 was favorably affected by approximately $21.1 million for the reversal of reserves for uncertain tax positions due to the lapse of applicable statutes of limitations.” If you don’t think it took fancy accountants and tax lawyers to make that happen, read the statement again.
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So the NYT article is about his personal, not corporate tax. This new article of yours compares the paper's corporate tax to his personal tax. As you know, completely different tax rules. To avoid apples and oranges, compare his 6 bankrupt corporations to the NYT.
 
Denny Crane said:
Tax returns are not true financial statements. A company can show lots of profit on its actual books while showing losses for tax purposes. In fact, when preparing a tax return, you want to show as little income (legitimately) as possible so you don't have to overpay taxes.
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True. So since he turned a big profit when he took a billion dollar loss for tax purposes as you say, then he'll be eager to prove that by showing us exactly what happened, right? And if he continues to be secretive, that will disprove your theory that he made big bucks when he took the billion dollar loss.
 
Denny Crane said:
Some of his companies are public. They're required to file financial statements.
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I think the only public ones went bankrupt. But I'd be happy to be corrected if you can point out any public Trump entities.

Yet he's served no jail time. Scams being illegal and all.
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Yet. At the rate we are finding out about illegal behavior, he's lucky the campaign will be over in a month and the spotlight will be turned off.

barfo
 
Denny Crane said:
Some of his companies are public. They're required to file financial statements.

Yet he's served no jail time. Scams being illegal and all.
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You just proved that Hillary's okay about the e-mails.
 
MarAzul said:
When he does, you will vote for him?
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Very unlikely. But I would keep an open mind to being convinced by the financials that he is a successful businessman rather than a con man, as it currently appears.

barfo
 
Further said:
If you claim to be the strongest, how much can you lift? Claim to be the smartest, what's your IQ? Claim to be the tallest, the best at basketball, the best dancer, whatever you want. But when those claims are made you are going to be judged accordingly. Trumps main claim is that he's the best businessman.
Click to expand...

MarAzul said:
I probably can only compete in one category and it ain't dancing.
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You must be very tall!

barfo
 
Denny Crane said:
John Kerry was the Democratic nominee in 2004. He married a $billionaire, who was the Heinz ketchup heiress. Heinz was not a public company.

She released only a few pages of her 2003 tax return.

Those whining about Trump's returns didn't put up a fuss about Kerry's. Hypocrites.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/16/p...-part-of-her-2003-income-tax-return.html?_r=0

Tax documents that would indicate if Ms. Heinz Kerry has offshore accounts were withheld, as were the schedules detailing her charitable deductions, interest expenses and the nature of the $14,412 in capital gains she reported. But Paul Bschorr, a lawyer for Ms. Heinz Kerry, said Friday that none of her personal investment accounts or accounts controlled by her family trust are deposited outside the United States, a step some wealthy American use to defer or escape taxes.

No information was provided about how much income was earned by trusts of which she is the beneficiary. If the trusts are as large as reported -- and the Kerry campaign has not challenged the billion dollar estimate -- then even a modest 5 percent return would have generated $50 million of income, 10 times what was on the two pages released by Ms. Heinz Kerry. A statement released by the Kerry campaign noted that income taxes are paid directly by the Heinz family trust, in addition to taxes that Ms. Heinz Kerry pays.

Ms. Heinz Kerry released her tax return this week because she had requested an tax-filing extension last spring.
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My answer:

Some of his companies are public. They're required to file financial statements. Yet he's served no jail time. Scams being illegal and all.
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Denny Crane said:
John Kerry was the Democratic nominee in 2004. He married a $billionaire, who was the Heinz ketchup heiress. Heinz was not a public company.

She released only a few pages of her 2003 tax return.

Those whining about Trump's returns didn't put up a fuss about Kerry's. Hypocrites.
Click to expand...

John Kerry did not claim the Heinz fortune as his qualification for office. So that's a pretty big difference.

barfo
 
Denny Crane said:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...-hillary-used-same-tax-avoidance-scheme-trump

Well this is a little awkward. With the leaked 1995 Trump tax returns 'scandal' focused on the billionaire's yuuge "net operating loss" and how it might have 'legally' enabled him to pay no taxes for years, we now discover none other than Hillary Rodham Clinton utilized a $700,000 "loss" to avoid paying some taxes in 2015.
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How much did it reduce her tax? A billion dollars?

latest
 
riverman said:
Denny you've really practiced for the job of Trump's campaign manager.....John Kerry's wife, what about Mitt Romney and his offshore accounts? Or any other rich and powerful person with political ambitions.....fuck Trump but not just because he's a 1 percenter but because he's a guy who takes vets donation charity money and pays legal fees with it or commissions portraits of himself...tell me more about John Kerry's big cover up and why I missed out on whining about it...fact is, people did talk about Kerry's wealth and Romney's wealth..this is not an isolated incident in their world. Sure...but it just does nothing but lump Trump in with some people who in my view are of higher character than Trump....and I think Kerry and Romney are both more impressive men than he is..Trump is so far removed from the working man or middle class that he hasn't a clue how shallow his mask is
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Just pointing out the dual standard.

Kerry is a gold digger of sorts. His net worth is basically his home. His wife has piles of gold. There was talk about how his decisions, if elected, might affect her wealth.

So if Trump put everything in his wife's name, it would be off limits? I don't think so.
 
jlprk said:
How much did it reduce her tax? A billion dollars?

latest
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100% of her losses.

Why whine about Trump using the tax loss provision, but not say squat about the liar doing the same?
 
jlprk said:
So the NYT article is about his personal, not corporate tax. This new article of yours compares the paper's corporate tax to his personal tax. As you know, completely different tax rules. To avoid apples and oranges, compare his 6 bankrupt corporations to the NYT.
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LOL

Excuses, excuses.

Taxes are taxes.

You know that a guy pumping $millions of his own money wants to do so in a way that is a write off in case of failure.
 
barfo said:

Nope. Both issues are relevant because of the relative lack of qualifications of Johnson and Trump.

Also, this is hardly the only distraction from 'serious conversation' in the race.

barfo
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Distraction is all that keeps Hiliar from dropping even further toward 0% approval.
 
Denny Crane said:
Distraction is all that keeps Hiliar from dropping even further toward 0% approval.
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Not my fault the Libertarians and Republicans didn't nominate serious candidates.

barfo
 
Denny Crane said:
You know that a guy pumping $millions of his Daddy's money wants to do so in a way that is a write off in case of failure.
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FTFY.

barfo
 
barfo said:
Not my fault the Libertarians and Republicans didn't nominate serious candidates.

barfo
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Neither the RNC nor the DNC wants a Libertarian on stage in the debates. The leaked DNC emails prove that party is a scam. I expect no better of the RNC.

So if the media and the two parties can squash discussion, there isn't much discussion. That said, the more exposure the Libertarians get, the more they rank in the polls.

I don't expect them to win this time, but from ~0% to ~1% to ~10% in three straight elections is real progress.
 
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