O-den. O-dear

[KingSpeed]

Seriously.

First of all, we lost the game because Travis missed three FTs and committed two costly turnovers.

That said.... what the fucking hell???? Oden was a TOTAL no show. Against a nothing team with no center of note! I don't want to hear about rebound rate. He didn't do anything out there to warrant being out there any more than he was. So don't tell me... well, if he played more, he'd play better. That's ridiculous. It's the other way around. If he'd play better, he'd play more.

I DO NOT care if Oden gets touches. I DO NOT care if Oden scores much. But dammit... be active. Have a presence. Matter. Be relevant on the court! It's so fucking frustrating. I know I'll get killed for this thread. But I have to be able to express my frustrations.

Meanwhile, Joel can't finish anymore because he has a bum wrist. So Nate did the right thing. He committed to what are clearly our 5 best players- Bayless, Roy, Outlaw, Rudy, and LMA- and tried to make a comeback. And it almost worked. We played much better defense and played with more passion on offense. Outlaw just made those miscues. But I can be happier with Travis because at least he was active. At least he tried. He made some stuff happen. Grabbed some big rebounds. Made some big shots.

Ugh.

Flame away.

Go Blazers

 

[Sheldon Shape]

If ever I was glad the Blazers lost, it was tonight. McMillan has been exposed and tonight was the pinnacle of the eventual end of him as the head coach of the Blazers. You bitch amd moan for Oden to have a presence on the court, when Joel did, and not even he was playing because Nate wanted to play to the opposition's strengths, not his own teams. Any coach in the NBA would die to have the big men we have, and yet McMillan is wasting away Greg's talents that if it continues, you will see the Shaq leaving Orlando senario happen all over again.

 

[KingSpeed]

If ever I was glad the Blazers lost, it was tonight. McMillan has been exposed and tonight was the pinnacle of the eventual end of him as the head coach of the Blazers. You bitch amd moan for Oden to have a presence on the court, when Joel did, and not even he was playing because Nate wanted to play to the opposition's strengths, not his own teams. Any coach in the NBA would die to have the big men we have, and yet McMillan is wasting away Greg's talents that if it continues, you will see the Shaq leaving Orlando senario happen all over again.

Greg isn't Shaq. Not close.

 

[ehizzy3]

just re postinh this incase you dont read it in the thread its in

PapaG, I think you're way off on how Oden was tonight. (in a discussion, rather than insulting, way)

If you do the boxscore thing, it doesn't jump out as a great performance. But you're missing a huge part of the picture.

Forget "rebounds", for a second. I went back and counted "taps", since almost every time a shot went in the air OKC was sending 3 guys to the boards, two of which were blocking out Oden. This allowed Blazer guards to get a bunch of rebounds, but didn't help his box score. In addition, in the first half alone I counted 5 "taps", where he tapped the ball on a missed shot but didn't come up with it (out of bounds, OKC got the tip, another Blazer got it, etc.).

He missed two shots today. One of them he was hacked from in front and behind, but no foul was called. I think he touched the ball 5 times in the first half...one 3-second call, 2 assists, 1 pass without assist (while being behind the 3pt line) and one foul against (no FTs). I don't know the usage rate on that, but it's not good.

And the "foul trouble" thing is bogus. He had 1 foul when he went out at the 6 minute point (trying to stay with a driving Durant going baseline on a busted switch). His last 2 fouls (30 sec. or so apart) were relatively cheap, and yet that caused Nate to sit him for the rest of the night. Maybe he was protecting Greg, since Haywood Workman et al were letting Greg get ambushed inside and not blowing the whistles.

The argument about "he's not open" is bogus as well. I counted twice today that Outlaw passed up passing to him when he was the only person in the key...wide open. Just didn't receive the ball. Sergio had a couple of times where he looked like he wanted to get it it, but didn't. Oden had more assists to guards today than guards had to him, which shouldn't happen unless he's getting triple-teamed. And why did we stop running the P&R.

I'm not saying Oden should be playing in the All-Star Game, but you're making it sound like he's Mark Madsen out there. He's not. He's being frozen out (innocently negligent or not) on offense and left out on an island on D b/c of switches and things. And yet, I can't remember the last time he fouled out (did he once in Jan?)

Nick Collison, Jeff Green, Joe Smith. Combined for 96 min at the PF/C spots. Joel and Oden? Combined for 30. LMA was having a good shooting night, and yet Roy missed more shots tonight than anyone else on the team took. I would say that once Oden gets consistent minutes and the ball passed to him on offense every once in a while, then you look more correct in your Oden assessments. I submit that if Kevin Durant had 3 shots tonight, he wouldn't have scored much more than Oden did.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Greg isn't Shaq. Not close.

Wow, that's the only thing you replied to? Perhaps because you couldn't combat anything I said with anything substancial or productive? Greg doesn't need to be Shaq as a player, but his level of signficance is similar to Shaq, not necessarily his on court production, it's kind of irrelevant either way. Regardless of impact, would you want to see your #1 pick go off and leave to sign with another team after only being drafted #1 3 or 4 seasons ago? Plus, I tend to put more stock into the likes of Bill Russell, Bill Walton, and other big men greats as to what kind of prospect Greg Oden can and will become. For fucks sake, Mutombo was a bigger part of his team's offense when he was drafted than Greg Oden and anyone who is familiar with Deke's offensive repetoire knows it was pretty non existant, although he was pretty efficient.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

Wow, that's the only thing you replied to? Perhaps because you couldn't combat anything I said with anything substancial or productive? Greg doesn't need to be Shaq as a player, but his level of signficance is similar to Shaq, not necessarily his on court production, it's kind of irrelevant either way. Regardless of impact, would you want to see your #1 pick go off and leave to sign with another team after only being drafted #1 3 or 4 seasons ago? Plus, I tend to put more stock into the likes of Bill Russell, Bill Walton, and other big men greats as to what kind of prospect Greg Oden can and will become. For fucks sake, Mutombo was a bigger part of his team's offense when he was drafted than Greg Oden and anyone who is familiar with Deke's offensive repetoire knows it was pretty non existant, although he was pretty efficient.

You will soon learn the fine art of trying to reason and logic with some people. I wish you well.

Edit: Okay let us try this one more time. I realize that my original sentence came off weird and slightly insulting towards you. Allow me to rephrase: You will soon learn that the fine art of trying to reason and logic with some people is futile. I wish you well.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

It's apparent it'll be a few years before Oden is a 30+ minute contributer.

 

[craigehlo]

I think Oden will continually struggle in the sluggish, half-court "offense" this team attempts to run. You can't just run post ups for him like he's Hakeem or Ewing. He's in the mold of Howard or Chandler, who do their damage rolling to the hoop.

Since we aren't going to get a new coach, we need to up the tempo and pray for an effective PG via trade.

 

[KingSpeed]

I can't believe we're counting tips! That's crazy. That's hunting for something to be happy about. The guy is simply not a very good basketball player. Not now. He may become one down the road. But right now, he's a liability. Or it's the coaches fault. Or it's both. At the beginning of the game, they called Greg's number and gave him the ball with him completely under the basket. All he had to do was turn and dunk. Instead, he passed to LMA and was then called for 3 seconds in the key. He has to be more aggressive than that. And he has to matter defensively. Collison got 21 & 13?!!??!! Ugh. Why can't anyone just admit that he's not playing well and stop making excuses?

As I've said... it's not even about numbers to me. I want him to frickin matter out there. He really didn't tonight. If the guy's name wasn't Greg Oden, none of you would want him on the court, playing the way he is.

Well, he can only get better, I suppose.

Thanks for the post, ehizzy. AmirIcon, I got what you said. You blame the coach. And Sebastian- thanks for the personal attack.

 

[KingSpeed]

The other thing... which I said before.... is that the guy's confidence has gone DOWN as the season has gone on. Early in the season, many in here said to give him a couple months and then he'd start playing better. But that's not what has really happened. In his first 5 games, he blocked 14 shots. Lately, he hardly blocks shots as all.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Tonights game has to be in his mind. The guy he was taken over smashed the Blazers.

 

[craigehlo]

The other thing... which I said before.... is that the guy's confidence has gone DOWN as the season has gone on.

Confidence is on the coach. Nate can't treat Oden like he's Sergio, pulling him early and often, but it happens continually. Aside from starting, his minutes and the rotations don't seem to reflect the enormous importance he has to the franchise.

 

[KingSpeed]

Confidence is on the coach. Nate can't treat Oden like he's Sergio, pulling him early and often, but it happens continually. Aside from starting, his minutes and the rotations don't seem to reflect the enormous importance he has to the franchise.

I think Nate has done all he can do. He starts the guy. If the guy plays well, he does get to play more (as we've seen on his 17/13 and 24/15 nights.) But most nights, he merely doesn't play well enough to warrant more playing time. In the end, we had to go to a lineup that worked and that was with LMA at center and Outlaw at PF. We had to try to win the game.

Oh and one example: Bayless. The reason Bayless is getting more minutes than Sergio is because he has earned them. Bayless plays well so Nate plays him more. It has to be the same way with Oden. If he plays well and makes himself valuable to the winning effort out there, then he will play more.

 

[craigehlo]

Oh and one example: Bayless. The reason Bayless is getting more minutes than Sergio is because he has earned them. Bayless plays well so Nate plays him more. It has to be the same way with Oden. If he plays well and makes himself valuable to the winning effort out there, then he will play more.

Not a good example since Bayless has the ball in his hands all the time due to his position. Oden has to rely on the team and offensive sets to get him the rock.

I think if we are going to simply post Oden and run no other plays for him, we need to get the ball up the floor faster and Oden has to make his more quickly. Right now neither is happening.

 

[toutlaw25]

Do you have to make one of these threads after every game?????????? It gets really fucking annoying. You're like a little whiny two year old. Do you think it might be a combination of factors? Nate might be a moron perhaps? If you look back to last year, there was a great stretch that I remember where Nate would finish the game with no Pryz and we would get murdered inside. Same thing tonight. I don't think we would have done any better with either center in, but you have to begin to question the coaches rotations at some point.

 

[Karl Malone's Elbows]

The talent on this team is over Nates head. Same goes for KingSpeed.

 

[anonymous gambler]

Microfracture surgery. It takes the 2nd season to come back. why do the naysayers keep forgetting this?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Seriously.

First of all, we lost the game because Travis missed three FTs and committed two costly turnovers.

That said.... what the fucking hell???? Oden was a TOTAL no show. Against a nothing team with no center of note! I don't want to hear about rebound rate. He didn't do anything out there to warrant being out there any more than he was. So don't tell me... well, if he played more, he'd play better. That's ridiculous. It's the other way around. If he'd play better, he'd play more.

I DO NOT care if Oden gets touches. I DO NOT care if Oden scores much. But dammit... be active. Have a presence. Matter. Be relevant on the court! It's so fucking frustrating. I know I'll get killed for this thread. But I have to be able to express my frustrations.

Meanwhile, Joel can't finish anymore because he has a bum wrist. So Nate did the right thing. He committed to what are clearly our 5 best players- Bayless, Roy, Outlaw, Rudy, and LMA- and tried to make a comeback. And it almost worked. We played much better defense and played with more passion on offense. Outlaw just made those miscues. But I can be happier with Travis because at least he was active. At least he tried. He made some stuff happen. Grabbed some big rebounds. Made some big shots.

Ugh.

Flame away.

Go Blazers

Hilarious. I'm no Travis sycophant, but Travis didn't "lose us the game" because he boinked a couple of free throws, the team lost this game because they got monkey stomped in the first quarter because nobody showed up to play any defense. Greg wasn't looking especially good out there last night, but this is in every sense a "team loss." You can pin it on Greg all you like, but it's kind of hard to turn a rookie into the whipping boy, when there's so much more blame to be divvied up.

The one thing I will say about Greg is that I think his confidence (and Nate's confidence in him) is pretty much back to sub zero temperatures ... this isn't a physical thing, this looks pretty much like a purely mental thing (breakdowns on defense, still committing the same idiotic touch fouls away from the basket, etc.) and he hasn't adjusted.

Who knows, maybe getting embarrassed over the past 3 games -- and the NO game should have raised some big red flags, rather than boosted their confidence -- will light a fire under EVERYBODY'S ass and get them more committed to playing the right way on more than just the offensive end of the court.

 

[julius]

And the bi-polar fan base rears it's ugly head again!

 

[Uther TheGardener]

nope we are tired of nates no offense regressing back to cheek's zbo noslomotion offense

 

[roydezlaw]

And the bi-polar fan base rears it's ugly head again!

I wish they'd stay on their medication so we wouldn't have to share their meltdowns with them.

 

[Chuck Taylor]

Eh...next week Kingspeed will start another one of his Greg Oden fan club threads.

 

[MARIS61]

Travis in no way lost the game.

Travis, Roy, Aldridge and Sergio played well.

If even 1 guy out of Rudy, Jerryd, Greg, Joel, or Nic had stepped up we would have won.

http://www.nba.com/games/20090206/POROKC/boxscore.html

 

[free_lafrentz]

Travis in no way lost the game.

Travis, Roy, Aldridge and Sergio played well.

If even 1 guy out of Rudy, Jerryd, Greg, Joel, or Nic had stepped up we would have won.

http://www.nba.com/games/20090206/POROKC/boxscore.html

Sergio did not play well. Nice try.

To those bashing Oden exclusively:

It's not like Joel played Collison any better. OKC outworked us for 3/4 of that game and everyone should be to blame, including McMillan, the staff and Oden.

And just a little newsflash: Greg isn't as dominant as we all thought, at least not yet. Should that come as a surprise to anyone though? He's been through a huge transition with a lot of bumps in the road. He's still exercising the demons as far as I'm concerned.

 

[B-Roy]

Travis in no way lost the game.

Travis, Roy, Aldridge and Sergio played well.

If even 1 guy out of Rudy, Jerryd, Greg, Joel, or Nic had stepped up we would have won.

http://www.nba.com/games/20090206/POROKC/boxscore.html

Sergio had 1 assist in 21 minutes. I thought he was supposed to set people up?

 

[rocketeer]

That said.... what the fucking hell???? Oden was a TOTAL no show. Against a nothing team with no center of note! I don't want to hear about rebound rate. He didn't do anything out there to warrant being out there any more than he was. So don't tell me... well, if he played more, he'd play better. That's ridiculous. It's the other way around. If he'd play better, he'd play more.

does it really surprise you that oden has a "bad" game?

the thunder are an undersized team. so they used this to their advantage and moved their smaller guys around a lot. they scored points on oden by using pick and rolls and by having quicker guys attack him off the dribble. of course, when oden is guarding a smaller guy that means a smaller guy is going to have to guard oden on the other end of the court. instead of taking advantage of this, the blazers shot long jumpers. when oden did touch the ball, he drew multiple fouls, but then instead of immediately getting the ball back inside they would go away from him.

 

[free_lafrentz]

does it really surprise you that oden has a "bad" game?

the thunder are an undersized team. so they used this to their advantage and moved their smaller guys around a lot. they scored points on oden by using pick and rolls and by having quicker guys attack him off the dribble. of course, when oden is guarding a smaller guy that means a smaller guy is going to have to guard oden on the other end of the court. instead of taking advantage of this, the blazers shot long jumpers. when oden did touch the ball, he drew multiple fouls, but then instead of immediately getting the ball back inside they would go away from him.

it also doesn't help Greg when Sergio is "defending" Westbrook and Watson. The guy has gravy for brains when it comes to defense.

 

[B-Roy]

it also doesn't help Greg when Sergio is "defending" Westbrook and Watson. The guy has gravy for brains when it comes to defense.

Since you know so much more about basketball than Nate, why don't YOU try coaching defense for Sergio?

See, it works both ways.

 

[free_lafrentz]

Since you know so much more about basketball than Nate, why don't YOU try coaching defense for Sergio?

See, it works both ways.

?

I don't want to coach sergio I want to trade him.

 

[free_lafrentz]

Since you know so much more about basketball than Nate, why don't YOU try coaching defense for Sergio?

See, it works both ways.

And I don't know more about Basketball than Nate, that's why he's coaching the team and I'm a fan who has observed Sergio get beaten consistently for 3 years off the dribble by other NBA guards.