Obama Skips National Security Team Meeting on Russia, Ukraine

[Denny Crane]

 

[jlprk]

I lived in occupied Tokyo. McArthur had ordered us (yes, dependents too) to bow to the Emperor if we saw him. One time my mother was driving me (women were bad drivers then) and the Emperor's motorcade approached, on his way to whatever business Emperors do--it was not a celebratory procession.

All cars stopped like nowadays when a siren goes by, but there was a difference (besides no siren). Sitting in your car, do you bow? Mom wasn't sure, so she did repeatedly. She was all flustered (like all women drivers were then--the stereotype was that when in doubt while driving, they stopped and applied makeup, but from my observations, they only did that about half the time) and yelled some fear into me to ensure I wouldn't act like a kid and embarrass her.

So, the Emp--I mean the Emperor--passes by and we continue to, hell if I know. Commissary, PX, I don't know.

 

[MARIS61]

Because from Ukraine you can attack Northern Europe, Southern Europe, Scandinavia, Middle East, Afghanistan, and Ural.

barfo

or from Russia, or from the US, or from Germany...

 

[maxiep]

http://www.salon.com/2014/02/27/i_l...eneration_was_captured_by_thrashing_hysteria/

That article was such an hilarious parody, I'm not even sure the author realized it.

 

[maxiep]

http://www.the-american-interest.com/blog/2014/03/01/putin-smashes-washingtons-cocoon/

 

[maxiep]

The bottom line is that you are either master of events or a prisoner to them. It's all about preparation. Once these things begin, if you haven't prepared the ground, you've already lost.

There's nothing the Obama Administration can do now. They squandered the past year when they could have had an impact.

 

[MARIS61]

There's nothing the Obama Administration can do now. They squandered the past year when they could have had an impact.

I'm waiting with bated breath to hear what you would have done to "have an impact".

 

[Sedatedfork]

At least he didn't try to tongue him

 

[PapaG]

"Bush did it too."

That is what Obama's blind supporters resort to these days. I didn't mention Bush in the this thread. Apparently, if Bush did it, that means Obama should, too. :MARIS61:

 

[jlprk]

Why do you want Obama to tongue that guy?

 

[PapaG]

Why do you want Obama to tongue that guy?

Lowest Common Denominator

You're better than this.

 

[jlprk]

You said you wanted Obama to do whatever Bush did.

 

[jlprk]

The bottom line is that you are either master of events or a prisoner to them. It's all about preparation. Once these things begin, if you haven't prepared the ground, you've already lost.

There's nothing the Obama Administration can do now. They squandered the past year when they could have had an impact.

For the past year the CIA assisted Britain in causing the demonstrations, timed for when Russia was distracted by the Olympics. While Obama works, whiny conservatives grumble about nothing.

 

[PapaG]

You said you wanted Obama to do whatever Bush did.

What a stupid post.

 

[jlprk]

Brilliant! You won the thread without one Ukrainian fatality. Your powers of argument are unmatched.

 

[PapaG]

Brilliant! You won the thread without one Ukrainian fatality. Your powers of argument are unmatched.

Your power of posting nonsensical posts continues unabated, too.

 

[maxiep]

I'm waiting with bated breath to hear what you would have done to "have an impact".

It's pretty standard and not exactly rocket science. First, you scenario plan for what major powers/troublesome countries may do across the globe (China to Taiwan or the Spratleys, North Korea occupying South Korean islands, etc.). Second, you come up with how you would respond to each one, coming up with a menu of options. Finally, you communicate--through your diplomatic corps--to those powers your vision for the world and your priorities.

Using this particular crisis, a Ukraine scenario is a pretty obvious one. First, you work with Ukranians sympathetic to the West. You identify who may be the best equipped to lead the country in the future. Second, you help guide the forces sympathetic to the East more toward our way of thinking, offering them carrots. Third, you make clear to the Russians that the Ukraine should be free to choose which way it wishes to go and that intervention by them--especially militarily--would be met by the most severe consequences. Economic consequences are just the beginning. Furthermore, it would not only be us, but also our allies.

Of course, this requires building international relationships and having a jaundices view of the world. Unfortunately, the Obama Administration thinks that everyone else thinks like they do--a world of sunshine and lollypops--and that building relationships are just letting foreign leaders gaze into the eyes of our Dear Leader and fall under his spell.

Bottom line, a more experienced foreign policy team wouldn't have let this happen.

 

[maxiep]

For the past year the CIA assisted Britain in causing the demonstrations, timed for when Russia was distracted by the Olympics. While Obama works, whiny conservatives grumble about nothing.

If true, that's even worse. Once again, the Obama Administration is good at lighting the fuse but never thinking about the bomb at the end of it.

 

[jlprk]

It's pretty standard and not exactly rocket science. First, you scenario plan for what major powers/troublesome countries may do across the globe (China to Taiwan or the Spratleys, North Korea occupying South Korean islands, etc.). Second, you come up with how you would respond to each one, coming up with a menu of options. Finally, you communicate--through your diplomatic corps--to those powers your vision for the world and your priorities.

Using this particular crisis, a Ukraine scenario is a pretty obvious one. First, you work with Ukranians sympathetic to the West. You identify who may be the best equipped to lead the country in the future. Second, you help guide the forces sympathetic to the East more toward our way of thinking, offering them carrots. Third, you make clear to the Russians that the Ukraine should be free to choose which way it wishes to go and that intervention by them--especially militarily--would be met by the most severe consequences. Economic consequences are just the beginning. Furthermore, it would not only be us, but also our allies.

Of course, this requires building international relationships and having a jaundices view of the world. Unfortunately, the Obama Administration thinks that everyone else thinks like they do--a world of sunshine and lollypops--and that building relationships are just letting foreign leaders gaze into the eyes of our Dear Leader and fall under his spell.

Bottom line, a more experienced foreign policy team wouldn't have let this happen.

The President could be an old shoe, but the State Dept. would still have thousands of nonpartisan, graduate-degree, 30-year professionals who learned everything you just wrote in their freshman years and...oh wait, you communicate to foreign diplomats?? Nobody thought of that one!!

 

[maxiep]

The President could be an old shoe, but the State Dept. would still have thousands of nonpartisan, graduate-degree, 30-year professionals who learned everything you just wrote in their freshman years and...oh wait, you communicate to foreign diplomats?? Nobody thought of that one!!

It makes you wonder then why it wasn't done. Instead, we talked ourselves into thinking Putin would never invade Ukraine. And in response, we got limp noodle rhetoric from The Smartest President Ever.

And what I did spout was generally learned in a 100 level international politics class. The fact you thought I was being profound is adorable. What I was stating was pretty obvious.

 

[jlprk]

It makes you wonder then why it wasn't done. Instead, we talked ourselves into thinking Putin would never invade Ukraine. And in response, we got limp noodle rhetoric from The Smartest President Ever.

And what I did spout was generally learned in a 100 level international politics class. The fact you thought I was being profound is adorable. What I was stating was pretty obvious.

It's adorable that you think this is too profound for Obama. The State Dept. exists to keep a President immersed in RealPolitik, whether he enters the job knowing anything or not. You seem to think that the bureaucracy, and its automatic stabilizers which kick in at the first sign of a variance, would allow events to veer from what it wants.

Kennedy and Nixon were the last Presidents to try to change something the State Dept. wanted. You see how they were handled.

 

[barfo]

Bottom line, a more experienced foreign policy team wouldn't have let this happen.

Weird how it seems so much like Georgia, which we let happen back in '08. But that was TOTALLY different, right?

barfo

 

[PapaG]

It's adorable that you think this is too profound for Obama. The State Dept. exists to keep a President immersed in RealPolitik, whether he enters the job knowing anything or not. You seem to think that the bureaucracy, and its automatic stabilizers which kick in at the first sign of a variance, would allow events to veer from what it wants.

Kennedy and Nixon were the last Presidents to try to change something the State Dept. wanted. You see how they were handled.

Obama can't even bother to show up for a NSC meeting while Russia is invading one of their neighboring countries. Whether or not the USA should be involved is another thing entirely, but trying to defend POTUS not even showing up for yesterday's meeting is about as partisan as one can get. Even Joe Biden showed up, from whichever local fair they sent him to this weekend, via videoconference.

 

[PapaG]

Weird how it seems so much like Georgia, which we let happen back in '08. But that was TOTALLY different, right?

barfo

Weird how the Russians didn't announce sanctions against Georgia until 1/19/09, right? Derp

 

[jlprk]

When a Republican president is elected, let's hope you get promoted to his Meetings Secretary. Then all will be aright again.

 

[Denny Crane]

I still think it's none of our business.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/02/ex-cia-chief-why-we-get-putin-wrong.html

Ex- CIA Chief: Why We Keep Getting Putin Wrong

Blame a myopic mindset—and an intelligence corps focused on terrorism, not Moscow.

The last time Russian troops invaded one of its neighbors, the U.S. intelligence community was also caught off guard.

(They got WMDs in Iraq wrong, too)

 

[crandc]

It's an OUTRAGE! An OUTRAGE I tell you! No need to determine facts, we know it's an OUTRAGE! Five years in office and nothing but OUTRAGE! OUTRAGE I tell you!

As they said in In the Heat of the Night, "someone needs to teach that black boy some manners".

 

[blue32]

Could care less about Ukraine. When they start attacking a country worth a shit then lets make a thread.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

I still think it's none of our business.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/02/ex-cia-chief-why-we-get-putin-wrong.html

Ex- CIA Chief: Why We Keep Getting Putin Wrong

Blame a myopic mindset—and an intelligence corps focused on terrorism, not Moscow.

The last time Russian troops invaded one of its neighbors, the U.S. intelligence community was also caught off guard.

(They got WMDs in Iraq wrong, too)

Gotta give Denny the thumbs up on this. If Texas had succeeded from the union, and with that government in turmoil, the US had sent troops into a treated US base to secure Our interests...what business of Russia's would it be?

Where I find it the most bothering is Obamas bluster and outrage..all that has done has been to polarize anti American sentiment in the hierarchy of the Russian politburo. Putian has already shown Our president to be a fool on several occasions, why continue to embarrass this nation.

 

[donkiez]

Other than the fact that we are the global police and everybody looks to us for some direction and help with these issues, then its not our issue but it is very concerning. The trick is determining what Russia's exact motives are and Im not 100% sure yet. So far it seems that they are just protecting their interests, but they are doing it in a very suspicious matter. They are also waging a major propaganda war in the east, taking over legitimate protests with buss'ed in Russians meant to intimidate locals and gain international sympathy. Why does Russian need to take these extra steps, is it just because they are covering their asses or do they have bigger plans? I would be somewhat nervous if I lived in Latvia, Poland or anywhere in eastern block really.