Occupy Wall Street

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I believe the reference is the 1% who undeservedly control the country's wealth and the 99% they stole it from.

Hmmmmm....., that's a good point. You may be right. It'll be my first question.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

these protests never do anything at all. they want to do something, they want real change, they have to start violent revolution. burn shit down. attack people. whatever it takes.

It may take that to effect real change.

 

[Natebishop3]

[video=youtube;wK1MOMKZ8BI]

 

[Denny Crane]

Why not argue that The Earth is flat?

Union membership and influence is lower now than at any time since before I was born.

Not surprisingly, the Average American is paid less for his efforts now than at any time since before I was born.

A capitalistic society cannot possibly survive without worker representation.

Not true. The median household income has never been higher. It's over $51K.

 

[Natebishop3]

Not true. The median household income has never been higher. It's over $51K.

How far does that money go? Inflation is a mother fucker.

 

[MARIS61]

Not true. The median household income has never been higher. It's over $51K.

Funny.

In 1960 dollars that's what, about $2,700?

 

[MARIS61]

I underestimated.

$51,000 now is the same as $6,693 in 1960.

 

[MARIS61]

I made $28,000 driving a forklift for a unionized manufacturer in the early 70's.

To keep up with inflation that same job should pay $142,500 today.

In reality, it now pays about $28,000 with far less bennies.

You youngsters don't know how bad you're getting screwed, and you don't know who it is that's screwing you.

When in doubt, follow the money.

 

[maxiep]

I wonder if these people know that most of the larger banks have moved off of Wall Street? In my time there I worked at 85 Broad St. and 11 Madison Ave.

For their next trick, maybe they should go protest the Oklahoma City Thunder in front of Key Arena.

 

[Natebishop3]

I wonder if these people know that most of the larger banks have moved off of Wall Street? In my time there I worked at 85 Broad St. and 11 Madison Ave.

For their next trick, maybe they should go protest the Oklahoma City Thunder in front of Key Arena.

It's symbolic. It's like protesting in front of the White House, even if the President is actually off at Camp David.

 

[Ed O]

I made $28,000 driving a forklift for a unionized manufacturer in the early 70's.

To keep up with inflation that same job should pay $142,500 today.

In reality, it now pays about $28,000 with far less bennies.

You youngsters don't know how bad you're getting screwed, and you don't know who it is that's screwing you.

How much did it cost for a cell phone back then? How's about an online community where you could talk politics and basketball?

What about a big screen HD television?

Who cares how much people made back then? The world has changed... some for the better, and some for the worse. It's just different.

Ed O.

 

[Natebishop3]

How much did it cost for a cell phone back then? How's about an online community where you could talk politics and basketball?

What about a big screen HD television?

Who cares how much people made back then? The world has changed... some for the better, and some for the worse. It's just different.

Ed O.

You don't think there has been some problems with inflation though?

 

[Ed O]

You don't think there has been some problems with inflation though?

With some things? Almost certainly. How much more expensive, for example, is a gallon of milk? I don't know. How much more expensive is it to drive a mile in a car? I don't know.

Food and energy (along with housing costs) are the three staples that are pretty easy to compare over time, and I simply don't know how those things are now as opposed to 200, 100, and 20 years ago. From a technological perspective (consumer electronics, health care, etc.) it's no contest: there are things that exist now that simply didn't then.

I do find it pretty amazing that someone can work a half of an hour at a minimum wage job and be able to afford a couple of items off of the value menu at Wendy's. It's far from the healthiest option ever, but rather amazing in a historical context.

Ed O.

 

[Natebishop3]

With some things? Almost certainly. How much more expensive, for example, is a gallon of milk? I don't know. How much more expensive is it to drive a mile in a car? I don't know.

Food and energy (along with housing costs) are the three staples that are pretty easy to compare over time, and I simply don't know how those things are now as opposed to 200, 100, and 20 years ago. From a technological perspective (consumer electronics, health care, etc.) it's no contest: there are things that exist now that simply didn't then.

I do find it pretty amazing that someone can work a half of an hour at a minimum wage job and be able to afford a couple of items off of the value menu at Wendy's. It's far from the healthiest option ever, but rather amazing in a historical context.

Ed O.

Well, in Portland for example, a house that went for 20k in the late 70's early 80s is now going for about 200k. That seems pretty extreme.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

anonymous is supposedly targeting the NYSE on October 10th. We'll see if it happens.


Like I said, you can only get results with violence. in this case, cyberviolence.

I doubt they'll pull it off though. Maybe they'll hack a website or leak people's PI around, but they'll eventually get caught and strung up like pigs.

 

[Natebishop3]

anonymous is supposedly targeting the NYSE on October 10th. We'll see if it happens.


Like I said, you can only get results with violence. in this case, cyberviolence.

I doubt they'll pull it off though. Maybe they'll hack a website or leak people's PI around, but they'll eventually get caught and strung up like pigs.

What can they do exactly? Crash the stock market?

 

[Denny Crane]

How much did it cost for a cell phone back then? How's about an online community where you could talk politics and basketball?

What about a big screen HD television?

Who cares how much people made back then? The world has changed... some for the better, and some for the worse. It's just different.

Ed O.

A house cost less than $6,000 in 1960.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

I made $28,000 driving a forklift for a unionized manufacturer in the early 70's.

To keep up with inflation that same job should pay $142,500 today.

In reality, it now pays about $28,000 with far less bennies.

You youngsters don't know how bad you're getting screwed, and you don't know who it is that's screwing you.

When in doubt, follow the money.

So a business should be paying 150k a year for semi-skilled labor?

If so, what should police, firemen/women, blacksmiths, and doctors be making?

Aside from that, I like the message this group is putting out. Might head down there to see what happens.

 

[speeds]

What can they do exactly? Crash the stock market?

Maybe they have watched Fight Club too many times? Probably something less dramatic.

 

[Run BJM]

I believe the reference is the 1% who undeservedly control the country's wealth and the 99% they stole it from.

To extrapolate on this, it seems like a reference to those factoids you always heard about Reaganomics and you started hearing again in the last several years about how the "top 1/3/5% of the population controls ____% of the wealth".

And as far as these protests, I'm borderline interested in participating (though I'm in Italy for a few more months and they'll probably be non-existent by then). And I fucking HATE protests and protesters. But this is something I actually care about. It sickens me that people can be so greedy and that so many people can suffer because of blatant negligence and selfishness. It isn't surprising but we had regulations in place to prevent this type of disaster. And how does such a massive portion of the population who is being raped silly have such a small voice? Might as well speak the fuck up any way we can or else we deserved to continue to be stomped all over.

 

[blazerboy30]

Well, in Portland for example, a house that went for 20k in the late 70's early 80s is now going for about 200k. That seems pretty extreme.

So?

Just the fact that you're bringing up whether or not the "poor" can afford to purchase their own house proves we have moved forward a great deal over that time span.

If the concern is whether families can PURCHASE their own home, and not whether a family has access to clean water, we're doing great.

 

[Natebishop3]

So?

Just the fact that you're bringing up whether or not the "poor" can afford to purchase their own house proves we have moved forward a great deal over that time span.

If the concern is whether families can PURCHASE their own home, and not whether a family has access to clean water, we're doing great.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize we lived in India. My bad.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I'm nowhere near the 300k line, but I make enough to pay taxes, so someone please enlighten me on which poor people I stole my income from.

As for the "it started with Reagan" comment, didn't the chart in the OP show that it started decreasing in the 60's?

 

[bluefrog]

The wealth disparity is concerning but the main thing I take issue with is how the wealthy abuse their power. Lobbying, controlling the media, cronyism, etc...

 

[Denny Crane]

To extrapolate on this, it seems like a reference to those factoids you always heard about Reaganomics and you started hearing again in the last several years about how the "top 1/3/5% of the population controls ____% of the wealth".

And as far as these protests, I'm borderline interested in participating (though I'm in Italy for a few more months and they'll probably be non-existent by then). And I fucking HATE protests and protesters. But this is something I actually care about. It sickens me that people can be so greedy and that so many people can suffer because of blatant negligence and selfishness. It isn't surprising but we had regulations in place to prevent this type of disaster. And how does such a massive portion of the population who is being raped silly have such a small voice? Might as well speak the fuck up any way we can or else we deserved to continue to be stomped all over.

You're buying into hyperbole meant to make a bogeyman where there really isn't one.

There are a lot of people in the top 10% of earners who don't even make $100K a year. That's the reality of it.

People who make $1M are elite doctor and lawyer types who gave years of training, advanced degrees, and big liabilities (get sued, take cases on speculation), and they do a lot of pro-Bono work.

If you want to talk wealth, guys like Bill Gates (richest man in the world) owns a fraction of Microsoft, let alone much of any other big company. If the government confiscated everything he has, it'd fund obama's deficit for 10 hours. Warren Buffett paid $6M in taxes on $18M in income, and his vast fortune would fund the deficit for a few hours.

There's no way these claims of so few rich people are true. Confiscate the wealth of all the billionaires in the world and we could pay off obama's debt. But some would feel better because bill gates would be eating at the soup kitchen and sleeping under an overpass in a cardboard box.

Think about it. The federal government owns the vast majority of the wealth. On the social security surpluses alone, over 10 years it could have bought every last share of stock in the fortune 500 companies. It owns 80% (or some huge part) of all the land in Utah, which alone is worth more than all the individuals combined. And that's just one state.

 

[blazerboy30]

I'm sorry, I didn't realize we lived in India. My bad.

You're not making any sense.

If you honestly think the metric we should use to determine "poor" is whether or not a family can afford to PURCHASE their own home, then we are doing very well and this class-warfare garbage is ridiculous.

 

[Ed O]

A house cost less than $6,000 in 1960.

You can still get houses for that in Detroit.

I would bet you could still build a house with 1960's technology for $50,000 today (which is $6,000, inflation-adjusted). Of course, it would cause cancer and violate codes eighteen ways from Sunday, but I bet you could do it.

Ed O.

 

[HailBlazers]

Not true. The median household income has never been higher. It's over $51K.

Beg to differ.

Income Slides to 1996 Levels
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904265504576568543968213896.html

The income of a household considered to be at the statistical middle fell 2.3% to an inflation-adjusted $49,445 in 2010, which is 7.1% below its 1999 peak, the Census Bureau said.

 

[Ed O]

How many households per capita are there now compared to the past? Measuring income per household seems to be a false way to look at economic growth, given the (likely) rise in single-adult households.

Ed O.

 

[Denny Crane]

Beg to differ.

Income Slides to 1996 Levels
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904265504576568543968213896.html

And

And there are those who argue the Census report offers a flawed gauge of living standards. For example, the Census Bureau adjusts for inflation using government measures that attempt to reflect the improving quality as well as price of goods. But these inflation adjustments are imperfect and don't reflect advances in medicine, the wonders of the Internet or the improvements in air quality.