Oden 2009-10: 12.4 PPG, 9.8 RPG, 1.5 BPG

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If Greg Oden averages 12.4 PPG, 9.8 RPG, 1.5 BPG, will you be satisfied?

  • Yes, 12.4 PPG, 9.8 RPG, 1.5 BPG is great for a 2nd year big man

    Votes: 42 72.4%

  • No, I want more from my "once a generation center"

    Votes: 16 27.6%
  • Total voters
    58
  • Poll closed .
The Professional Fan said:
Horrible for a 2nd year player? Hmm.
Click to expand...

It's his third season, but no matter. Compared to the "great" centers of the last 20 years (Ewing, Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq) those numbers simply don't measure up.

Honestly, I am sick of all the spin and excuses. Oden's ceiling is more in line with somebody like Mutombo - maybe Howard - and that is nothing to complain about. If he stays healthy, he is still one of the top 2 guys in his draft class.
 
I voted no. I'd be happy if he got those numbers, but I expect him to do better.
 
He really should be a double double every night. I'm predicting 13 points, 12 rebounds, 1.5 blocks in about 32 mpg.

Basically Emeka Okafor with better rebounding.
 
With Dre feeding him the ball, in 32 minutes a game, he's good for 16 pts. 12 rebs and 1.5 blks. Oden never got into playing shape last year, we'll see the real Oden this year.
 
I never really expected him to be a crazy offensive threat...but I did vote no. As others have mentioned I'd like to see a couple more rebounds out of him.
 
oldmangrouch said:
If you honestly believe that Oden is a "once in a generation" center, then those numbers are horrible. Otherwise, they are perfectly acceptable.
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If he isn't a "once in a generation center" why did we take him over Durant?
 
oldmangrouch said:
So the 07-08 season was cancelled? If Oden is a "2nd" year player, then Roy is just a ONE time all-star. :biglaugh:
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Are you really arguing that this isn't Oden's second year? He was a rookie last year, he will play in the sophomore game this year. He didn't play all of 07-08, this coming season will be his 2nd year. I hate it when people argue with facts.
 
oldmangrouch said:
So the 07-08 season was cancelled? If Oden is a "2nd" year player, then Roy is just a ONE time all-star. :biglaugh:
Click to expand...

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Oden didn't play in 2007-08. So, it doesn't count as a season played in the NBA. The NBA officially considers 2008-09 his first (rookie) season and this season (2009-10) will be his second. Why is that so hard to understand?

Or, do you also consider this Rudy's third NBA season? After all, he was part of the same draft class as Greg Oden, wasn't he.

The NBA doesn't consider a player a rookie until they actually play. Oden didn't play in 2007-08. So, 2008-09 was officially his first (rookie) NBA season. There are plenty or precidents for this. Two famous ones are Larry Bird and David Robinson. Bird was drafted as a "junior elligible" in the 1978 draft, but returned to Indiana Sate for his senior season and did not play in the NBA until the 1979-80 season. Therefore, 1979-80 was his rookie year. David Robinson was picked No. 1 over all in the 1987 NBA draft, but served two more years in the US Navy before joining the Spurs for his rookie season (not his 3rd season) in 1989-90. There are also other examples of players who missed the entire season after being drafted due to injury (Nick Collison). Like Oden, they were not considered rookies until they actually played in an NBA game a season later.

I have no idea why you insist on stubbornly clinging to your incorrect belief that this is Oden's third season in the NBA. The NBA clearly disagrees with you. Oden didn't play in the NBA in 2007-08, therefore it doesn't count as a season played in the NBA. Is it really that hard to understand? Cripes, Sabonis was drafted in 1986, but didn't join the Blazers until the 1995-96 season. So, was 1995-96 his rookie year, or do you consider it his 10th year in the league based on the year he was drafted?

BNM
 
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(in my best KP voice:) "Will I be satisfied? Sure. Did I hope for more when they drafted him? Absolutely."

If Oden can actually manage 30 minutes per game and miss no more than 6 games and puts up a double double (or near it) at 13 points, 10 boards and close to two blocked shots per game that would make him equivalent to Andrew Bogut in his third NBA season. That's certainly no "once in a gen" talent, and probably isn't enough to make this team a serious title threat, but I can hardly fault Greg for that.

Let's just say I hope for better, but will be placated by less.
 
The provided stat line is Oden's low bar, in my opinion. He needs to achieve at least that for the season to be a successful one. I expect more than that.

I'll be content if he provides that stat line, as it will be progress toward being one of the best centers in the league, but I still believe he has the ability to be a Hall of Fame center and I'm looking for something closer to 15/12/2 this season. Or, at least, that stat line in the second half of the season.
 
Nikolokolus said:
(in my best KP voice:) "Will I be satisfied? Sure. Did I hope for more when they drafted him? Absolutely."
Click to expand...

Sorry to digress...but is anyone else irritated by KP's habit of asking himself questions, then answering them? I think pretty soon he's going to start talking about himself in the 3rd person...
 
Blazer_Hippie said:
Sorry to digress...but is anyone else irritated by KP's habit of asking himself questions, then answering them? I think pretty soon he's going to start talking about himself in the 3rd person...
Click to expand...

I have always hated that about Dan Patrick too.
 
Blazer_Hippie said:
Sorry to digress...but is anyone else irritated by KP's habit of asking himself questions, then answering them? I think pretty soon he's going to start talking about himself in the 3rd person...
Click to expand...

Is this post ironic? I think it is.
 
Oden is not a once-in-a-generation center,

he IS a once-in-a-generation rebounder.
 
Alright, let's get this straight. When the Magic got Shaq: they had no other clear cut #1 option. When the Spurs got Robinson: they had no other clear cut #1 option (maybe Cummings, but he wasn't really a #1 option and arrived the same year as Robinson). They had a completely remade roster from the year before. When the Rockets got Hakeem: They had a #1 in Ralph Sampson but no one outside of him. Patrick Ewing: same thing.

Last year Oden came in, recovering from injury, and with two primary options already well established as long term offensive weapons for this team. I watch Shaq's early games and I don't have much doubt that Oden could do what he did if A. He hadn't had his injury and B. Would be the focus of the offense. We all saw that he looked lost on the floor. Maybe that's because he's never not been the focus of his teams offense. You just start dumping it to him down low and after a couple of games, he's comfortable and doing exactly what Shaq did: and that his hitting short shots.

If Shaq would have been drafted by the Bulls in 1992, he doesn't score more than 15 points a game. Not to mention if he would have had to come off an injury.

The situation that Greg is in is completely different from most centers. Every one, from Hakeem, to Ewing, to The Admiral to Shaq has been instantly the main focus, or a main focus of their team's offense. The bottom line is that we got extremely lucky to already have two young weapons of the future on this team and we weren't required to lean on Oden for his offense. I wish that we would have more, and think that Nate needs to make a conscious effort to get Greg some touches.

Now, I worry that Oden's offensive game won't develop as well as it could because of his situation, but I have little doubt that given different circumstances, say on the Oklahoma Thunder who needed a #1 option, and without injury, Greg would have put up numbers much closer to what Shaq did his first year.

So, yes, I would be satisfied with the numbers above. And if you think that Greg doesn't have the potential to be every bit as effective as the other centers above, you're kidding yourself.
 
Boob-No-More said:
Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Oden didn't play in 2007-08. So, it doesn't count as a season played in the NBA. The NBA officially considers 2008-09 his first (rookie) season and this season (2009-10) will be his second. Why is that so hard to understand?

Or, do you also consider this Rudy's third NBA season? After all, he was part of the same draft class as Greg Oden, wasn't he.

The NBA doesn't consider a player a rookie until they actually play. Oden didn't play in 2007-08. So, 2008-09 was officially his first (rookie) NBA season. There are plenty or precidents for this. Two famous ones are Larry Bird and David Robinson. Bird was drafted as a "junior elligible" in the 1978 draft, but returned to Indiana Sate for his senior season and did not play in the NBA until the 1979-80 season. Therefore, 1979-80 was his rookie year. David Robinson was picked No. 1 over all in the 1987 NBA draft, but served two more years in the US Navy before joining the Spurs for his rookie season (not his 3rd season) in 1989-90. There are also other examples of players who missed the entire season after being drafted due to injury (Nick Collison). Like Oden, they were not considered rookies until they actually played in an NBA game a season later.

I have no idea why you insist on stubbornly clinging to your incorrect belief that this is Oden's third season in the NBA. The NBA clearly disagrees with you. Oden didn't play in the NBA in 2007-08, therefore it doesn't count as a season played in the NBA. Is it really that hard to understand? Cripes, Sabonis was drafted in 1986, but didn't join the Blazers until the 1995-96 season. So, was 1995-96 his rookie year, or do you consider it his 10th year in the league based on the year he was drafted?

BNM
Click to expand...

Is Oden in the 2nd year of his contract, or his 3rd? If he had spent his first season on the bench because he wasn't good enough to play, would you still say 08-09 was his "rookie" year.

If you define "rookie" to mean "first season playing professional basketball", then Rudy was not a rookie last season. If you define it as "first season under contract to an NBA team", then Rudy was a rookie, and Oden was not.

Oden was under contract and eligible to suit up and play for the Blazers in 07-08. How many minutes he actually played, is irrelevant. I'll gladly argue that point in any court of law in the english speaking world - and win!

In his career, Oden has missed over 100 games to injury. That is a fact you can deny till dooms-day....but you can't change it. If being honest about the situation makes me "obtuse", I'll wear the insult gladly. (though aren't you one of those people who likes to lecture about personal attacks?)
 
Natebishop3 said:
If you could go back and do that draft over..... would you?
Click to expand...

With the benefit of hindsight? Yeah I probably would take Durant over Greg. At this point just about every objective observer would probably say the same thing, especially with the resurgence of Joel as a legit post defender in the past couple of years.

None of this means I'm sad we have him, or that he's not going to be a very good player in time, or that he doesn't end up being a key member of a championship caliber team.

But Durant is starting to look like he could be one of those once in a generation scorers/talents, especially if his defense improves and his passing continues to improve.
 
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oldmangrouch said:
Is Oden in the 2nd year of his contract, or his 3rd? If he had spent his first season on the bench because he wasn't good enough to play, would you still say 08-09 was his "rookie" year.

If you define "rookie" to mean "first season playing professional basketball", then Rudy was not a rookie last season. If you define it as "first season under contract to an NBA team", then Rudy was a rookie, and Oden was not.

Oden was under contract and eligible to suit up and play for the Blazers in 07-08. How many minutes he actually played, is irrelevant. I'll gladly argue that point in any court of law in the english speaking world - and win!

In his career, Oden has missed over 100 games to injury. That is a fact you can deny till dooms-day....but you can't change it. If being honest about the situation makes me "obtuse", I'll wear the insult gladly. (though aren't you one of those people who likes to lecture about personal attacks?)
Click to expand...

Good god. You just won't give up will you? You might want to take this up with David Stern - a rather prominent attorney who considers 2008-09 as Oden's first NBA season.

Oden was not on the active roster for a single game in 2008-09 (and, therefore, not eligible to play in any of those games). He did not play a single second of NBA basketball prior to the 2008-09 season.

The NBA defines rookie season as the first season in which a player plays NBA basketball. So, neither of the alternate definitions you propose ("first season playing professional basketball", "first season under contract to an NBA team") are correct. If you disagree with that definition, take it up with the NBA.

In the meantime, don't be surprised if you are corrected every time you post your incorrect interpretation of the number of NBA seasons Greg Oden has played. The NBA says he's played one season of NBA bassketball. That's about as official (and straight forward) as you can get.

BNM
 
Nikolokolus said:
With the benefit of hindsight? Yeah I probably would take Durant over Greg. At this point just about every objective observer would probably say the same thing, especially with the resurgence of Joel as a legit post defender in the past couple of years.

None of this means I'm sad we have him, or that he's not going to be a very good player in time, or that he doesn't end up being a key member of a championship caliber team.

Durant is starting to look like he could be one of those once in a generation scorers/talents, especially if his defense improves and his passing continues to improve.
Click to expand...

I don't entirely disagree with you, but Durant didn't look like a once-a-generation anything in his rookie year. While he was dealing with playing out of position (how does Carlisimo still get NBA jobs?), Oden was dealing with recovering from surgery. I really don't know that I'd say Oden was any more "disappointing" in his rookie season than Durant was. In addition, perimeter players generally adapt to the NBA faster than big men, because they can control their role much better as ball-handlers and have fewer team defense responsibilities.

Maybe it is a lack of objectivity (entirely possible), but I'd still take Oden even knowing what I know now. And I do have some claim to objectivity...I've been blown away by Oden's talent since long before I had any idea he'd be a Blazer. I tried to watch every Ohio State game he played in and he definitely struck me as the real deal.

I still believe that Oden will be at least as valuable as Durant, and quite possibly more so. Durant, I believe, will be just a step below the LeBron James/Chris Paul level in the coming years. I think Oden will be comparable to Dwight Howard and has a chance to be better.
 
oldmangrouch said:
In his career, Oden has missed over 100 games to injury. That is a fact you can deny till dooms-day....but you can't change it.
Click to expand...

For the record, I have never once denied that Greg Oden missed the entire 2007-08 season due to injury. Why would I deny it? It's a matter of record that he didn't play in a single game that season after undergoing microfracture surgery on his knee and as a result was not on the active roster at any point during that season.

BNM
 
Nikolokolus said:
With the benefit of hindsight? Yeah I probably would take Durant over Greg. At this point just about every objective observer would probably say the same thing, especially with the resurgence of Joel as a legit post defender in the past couple of years.
Click to expand...

I can understand where you are coming from - but at this point, I still think that Greg will be the better pick when all is said and done.

The Blazers are already an elite offensive team. It's defense that they lack, and defense that makes championship teams possible - and Durant is not the answer on that end of the floor.
 
andalusian said:
I can understand where you are coming from - but at this point, I still think that Greg will be the better pick when all is said and done.

The Blazers are already an elite offensive team. It's defense that they lack, and defense that makes championship teams possible - and Durant is not the answer on that end of the floor.
Click to expand...

I still stand behind the Oden pick for the same reason.

I suppose if we'd drafted Durant we might have been able to trade him or Roy for something that actually fit our team better. Maybe a multi-team deal that netted us Devin Harris and maybe Gerald Wallace or something.

But I'm still pretty fine with Oden.
 
Boob-No-More said:
In his rookie year, limited to 21.5 MPG due to injuries, conditioning and foul trouble, Greg Oden averaged 8.9 points, 7.0 rebounds and 1.1 blocks per game.

If he can cut down on the fouls enough to average 30 MPG, and produces at the exact rate he did as a rookie, his averages will go up to 12.4 PPG, 9.8 RPG, 1.5 BPG.

Will you be happy with this production from Oden, or do you expect more?

BNM
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anyone who says they would be happy with that production really has no business bitching about oden's production last season. i mean those numbers show no actually improvement other than staying out of foul trouble.

as for me, i would expect oden's numbers in 30 minutes per game this season to probably be more in line with his per 36 numbers last season(so around 14-15, 11, and 2).
 
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